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Author Topic: 2022 SSPX US transfers  (Read 25639 times)

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Offline epiphany

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Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2022, 10:49:10 AM »
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  • Is it bad to hope that the current SSPX priest in my area gets transferred OUT?  :laugh1:
    Be careful what you wish for.  Who you get may be worse.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #16 on: May 31, 2022, 11:17:40 AM »
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  • Be careful what you wish for.  Who you get may be worse.

    True.  But, then, I have (many) other alternatives for Mass, so it's not an exceedingly critical thing for me.  I would like to find a good confessor / spiritual director, and those are difficult to come by.  I really haven't had that since I was last at STAS 30 years ago now.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #17 on: May 31, 2022, 11:17:48 AM »
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  • This is completely false.  Supplied jurisdiction is clearly only ad hoc for the specific acts for which it is applied, e.g. confession, marriage, etc.  That's made clear in pretty much every commentary on Canon Law.  No, the SSPX priests stationed at chapels are NOT pastors of parishes.  There's no Catholic theologian who would agree that there can be habitual supplied jurisdiction.  Hey, why stop there?  Maybe the SSPX bishops have episcopal jurisdiction as well and can start setting up dioceses.

    Hi Lad-

    You are conflating a number of concepts here, and I wanted to try an straighten them out, in the hope of furthering our mutual understanding:

    Firstly, the easy one: Nobody (much less +Tissier, the SSPX, or myself) is alleging  Society priests are pastors of parishes in the juridical sense. 

    Rather, what is being argued is whether a canonically erected and approved pius union (who’s constitutions, which clearly suppose an hierarchical organization, and which were likewise approved the same day as the pius Union) can exert canonical authority and compel obedience from its members ad infra.

    If the suppression of the Society was illegitimate and/or invalid, it would seem  plausible; if the Society was legitimately and validly suppressed, the argument is moot.

    Secondly, nobody (least of all +Tissier, the Society, or myself) is arguing the SSPX possesses habitual or personal jurisdiction, but simply supplied jurisdiction. 

    Your choice of words in calling the SSPX’s sustained use of Ecclesia supplet
    “habitual supplied jurisdiction” muddies the water, but that aside, I’m not sure why you gratuitously claim (ie., you provide no argument to support) “no Catholic theologian would agree that there can be habitual supplied jurisdiction:”

    Presuming by “habitual,” you mean “sustained and repeated,” the contrary is easily proven by referencing the account of St. Athanasius (who presumably continued to rely upon supplied jurisdiction during long stretches of his several excommunications, which would have deprived him of ordinary/personal/habitual jurisdiction).

    There is no “cap,” or shelf life on supplied jurisdiction: It persists as long as necessity persists, and springs from the request of the faithful (which the latter may request “for any just cause”). 
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #18 on: May 31, 2022, 11:19:13 AM »
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  • Firstly, the easy one: Nobody (much less +Tissier, the SSPX, or myself) is alleging  Society priests are pastors of parishes in the juridical sense. 

    You're right; he did not say that, but that would seem to be the logical conclusion of his continuous supplied jurisdiction (rather than it beings upplied per activity).

    Bishop Tissier:
    Quote
    [Supplied jurisdiction] is not only present for confessions, but also for the entire priestly ministry.

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #19 on: May 31, 2022, 11:22:32 AM »
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  • True.  But, then, I have (many) other alternatives for Mass, so it's not an exceedingly critical thing for me.  I would like to find a good confessor / spiritual director, and those are difficult to come by.  I really haven't had that since I was last at STAS 30 years ago now.
    I haven't had a good one for 25 years.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #20 on: May 31, 2022, 11:23:54 AM »
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  • I haven't had a good one for 25 years.

    I really did like Father Daniel Cooper, though, but I only went to Confession to him a couple times when I was on a business trip near Dickinson, so I don't really count that as ongoing spiritual direction.

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #21 on: May 31, 2022, 11:25:26 AM »
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  • Firstly, the easy one: Nobody (much less +Tissier, the SSPX, or myself) is alleging  Society priests are pastors of parishes in the juridical sense. 
    Just a question on this....
    If the SSPX is not alleging they are pastors of parishes, why do they state they ARE pastors of parishes in their bulletins?
    I believe it is deceptive.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #22 on: May 31, 2022, 11:34:28 AM »
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  • Just a question on this....
    If the SSPX is not alleging they are pastors of parishes, why do they state they ARE pastors of parishes in their bulletins?
    I believe it is deceptive.

    Our bulletin here also does that, but I'd be surprised if the motive was to deliberately imply pastorship in the juridical/canonical sense.

    I just always took it as meaning "the priest here is Fr. ______."

    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #23 on: May 31, 2022, 11:37:30 AM »
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  • I really did like Father Daniel Cooper, though, but I only went to Confession to him a couple times when I was on a business trip near Dickinson, so I don't really count that as ongoing spiritual direction.

    I never even knew him, and I realize this is completely gratuitous on my part, but I believe he's a saint in heaven.  All I ever knew of him was that he battled with his cancer for years, but I never saw any of his online conferences until after he died.  Once I discovered those, they really put the hook in me.  We pray for his intercession privately every day after our family Rosary.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Christo Rege

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #24 on: May 31, 2022, 12:04:34 PM »
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  • I never even knew him, and I realize this is completely gratuitous on my part, but I believe he's a saint in heaven.  All I ever knew of him was that he battled with his cancer for years, but I never saw any of his online conferences until after he died.  Once I discovered those, they really put the hook in me.  We pray for his intercession privately every day after our family Rosary.
    Now that you all mention Fr. Cooper, I can give a story that has stuck with me ever since his death.

    Back in the fall of 2017, my uncle was in Texas for a short period of time. He told us when he got back that he has never met such a holy priest- and couldn’t even tell that Father had cancer! He was noticeably very humble and left some serious and peaceful presence on my uncle. After all of this, I very much wanted to meet this priest myself. Soon after, we heard he was in the hospital and then passed away. The world really does need a humble priest.
    “The good God does not need years to accomplish His work of Love in a soul; one ray from His Heart can, in an instant, make His flower bloom for eternity.” 
    ~ St. Therese of Lisieux

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #25 on: May 31, 2022, 12:40:26 PM »
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  • I never even knew him, and I realize this is completely gratuitous on my part, but I believe he's a saint in heaven.  All I ever knew of him was that he battled with his cancer for years, but I never saw any of his online conferences until after he died.  Once I discovered those, they really put the hook in me.  We pray for his intercession privately every day after our family Rosary.
    I knew him, I first met him when I went on my first Retreat and my life has changed. He has done a lot of good for me and many other over the years.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #26 on: May 31, 2022, 12:41:44 PM »
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  • I only knew Father Cooper during a 2-week business trip to Houston (when I was working for NASA), so it crossed 3 weekends.  So I went to Sunday Mass those 3 weekends, a fair number of weekday Masses (since I was working 3rd shift there), and Confession a couple times, and just from that I can concur with those who believe him to be a saint in Heaven.

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #27 on: May 31, 2022, 12:42:19 PM »
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  • Our bulletin here also does that, but I'd be surprised if the motive was to deliberately imply pastorship in the juridical/canonical sense.

    I just always took it as meaning "the priest here is Fr. ______."
    The SSPX knows the difference.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #28 on: May 31, 2022, 12:44:08 PM »
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  • I did bring this up on another thread and don't know if I saw a reply.

    Nearly ALL the Traditional bishops (SSPX, SV, Resistance, +Thuc line, etc.) wield croziers, which I have read to be a sign of the jurisdiction he has over his flock, and typically shouldn't even be used outside his diocese.

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: 2022 SSPX US transfers
    « Reply #29 on: May 31, 2022, 01:02:15 PM »
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  • I really did like Father Daniel Cooper, though, but I only went to Confession to him a couple times when I was on a business trip near Dickinson, so I don't really count that as ongoing spiritual direction.
    This fr. Daniel cooper?

    -“We must obey Bp. Fellay because he has grace of state.”
    -“Resistance is a step away from sedevacantism.”
    -“The Society needs to make a deal with Modernist Rome so that it has the authority to provide the sacraments, etc.”
    https://catholiccandle.neocities.org/priests/sspx-cooper-letter-refuted.html

    "...when the abuse had been reported years earlier to the SSPX priest in charge of St. Thomas at the time, Fr. Daniel Cooper, he disregarded it and did not report it to police."
    https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/transcript-spotlight-sspx

    "i went to father Daniel Cooper. And he said. I will not testify against the brother priest, so he was father Daniel Cooper was unwilling to help you.."
    https://fb.watch/dm4iR9WcKQ/