Author Topic: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather) (Read 16712 times)

happenby · « **Reply #60 on:** April 26, 2018, 11:51:15 AM »

Quote from: forlorn on April 26, 2018, 11:42:19 AM

You have no sources to suggest they believed that.

You should never step into a thread guns blazing, calling people names, without having obtained understanding of the subject in advance, or reading related threads. There are more proofs than what I provided here but your statement (above) is proven false.

Origen called the firmament "without doubt firm and solid" (First Homily on Genesis, FC 71).

St. Ambrose, commenting on Gen 1:6, said, 'the specific solidity of this exterior firmament is meant' (Hexameron, FC 42.60).

St. Augustine said the word firmament was used 'to indicate not that it is motionless but that it is solid and that it constitutes an impassable boundary between the waters above and the waters below' (The Literal Meaning of Genesis, ACW 41.1.61)." - p. 236

Saint Basil: “Now we must say something about the nature of the firmament, and why it received the order to hold the middle place between the waters. Scripture constantly makes use of the word firmament to express extraordinary strength....‘I made firm her pillars [Ps. 75:3].’ ‘Praise ye Him in the firmament of His power [Ps. 150:1].’ It is the custom of Scripture to call firmament all that is strong and unyielding. It even uses the word to denote the condensation of the air. God says, ‘For, behold, I am He that strengthens the thunder [Amos 4:13].’ Scripture means by the strengthening of the thunder, the strength and resistance of the wind, which, enclosed in the hollows of the clouds, produces the noise of thunder when it breaks through with violence. Here then, according to me, is a firm substance, capable of retaining the fluid and unstable element water; and as, according to the common acceptation, it appears that the firmament owes its origin to water, we must not believe that it resembles frozen water or any other matter produced by the filtration of water. For I am taught by Scripture not to allow my imagination to wander too far afield. But do not let us forget to remark that, after these divine words, ‘Let there be a firmament [Gen. 1:6],’ it is not said ‘and the firmament was made’ but, ‘God made the firmament, and God divided between the water that was under the firmament and between the water that was above the firmament [Gen. 1:7].’. Saint Basil, “Hom. III(9),” Hexaemeron, NPNF, 2nd Ser., Vol. VIII.

Sorry for the size of the font, can't seem to get it to size down.

Meg · « **Reply #61 on:** April 26, 2018, 02:03:55 PM »

Quote from: happenby on April 26, 2018, 11:51:15 AM

You should never step into a thread guns blazing, calling people names, without having obtained understanding of the subject in advance, or reading related threads. There are more proofs than what I provided here but your statement (above) is proven false.

Origen called the firmament "without doubt firm and solid" (First Homily on Genesis, FC 71).

St. Ambrose, commenting on Gen 1:6, said, 'the specific solidity of this exterior firmament is meant' (Hexameron, FC 42.60).

St. Augustine said the word firmament was used 'to indicate not that it is motionless but that it is solid and that it constitutes an impassable boundary between the waters above and the waters below' (The Literal Meaning of Genesis, ACW 41.1.61)." - p. 236

Saint Basil: “Now we must say something about the nature of the firmament, and why it received the order to hold the middle place between the waters. Scripture constantly makes use of the word firmament to express extraordinary strength....‘I made firm her pillars [Ps. 75:3].’ ‘Praise ye Him in the firmament of His power [Ps. 150:1].’ It is the custom of Scripture to call firmament all that is strong and unyielding. It even uses the word to denote the condensation of the air. God says, ‘For, behold, I am He that strengthens the thunder [Amos 4:13].’ Scripture means by the strengthening of the thunder, the strength and resistance of the wind, which, enclosed in the hollows of the clouds, produces the noise of thunder when it breaks through with violence. Here then, according to me, is a firm substance, capable of retaining the fluid and unstable element water; and as, according to the common acceptation, it appears that the firmament owes its origin to water, we must not believe that it resembles frozen water or any other matter produced by the filtration of water. For I am taught by Scripture not to allow my imagination to wander too far afield. But do not let us forget to remark that, after these divine words, ‘Let there be a firmament [Gen. 1:6],’ it is not said ‘and the firmament was made’ but, ‘God made the firmament, and God divided between the water that was under the firmament and between the water that was above the firmament [Gen. 1:7].’. Saint Basil, “Hom. III(9),” Hexaemeron, NPNF, 2nd Ser., Vol. VIII.

Sorry for the size of the font, can't seem to get it to size down.

Good quotes above. I notice that Forlorn hasn't yet commented them.

forlorn · « **Reply #62 on:** April 26, 2018, 02:31:50 PM »

Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 02:03:55 PM

Good quotes above. I notice that Forlorn hasn't yet commented them.

I responded in the other thread "Are globers Catholic?" with many citations to prove that medieval Catholics unanimously believed in a ball earth. His quotes are from the Patrisic period and I never denied that a minority believed in a flat earth at the time, but by the middle ages every saint believed in a ball earth and Catholic universities taught a ball earth. See the other thread.

Jaynek · « **Reply #63 on:** April 26, 2018, 02:34:54 PM »

Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 02:03:55 PM

Good quotes above. I notice that Forlorn hasn't yet commented them.

Since Forlorn was obviously making a comment about Catholics at the time of Mary of Agreda (the topic under discussion at that point) a bunch of quotes from more than a thousand years earlier than that are clearly irrelevant.

If one produced quotes from Catholics during the 1500s it might address his point. The quotes given by happenby did not.

Meg · « **Reply #64 on:** April 26, 2018, 03:33:32 PM »

Quote from: forlorn on April 26, 2018, 02:31:50 PM

I responded in the other thread "Are globers Catholic?" with many citations to prove that medieval Catholics unanimously believed in a ball earth. His quotes are from the Patrisic period and I never denied that a minority believed in a flat earth at the time, but by the middle ages every saint believed in a ball earth and Catholic universities taught a ball earth. See the other thread.

You said that Happenby had no sources for the belief that Catholics believed in a dome or firmament. She provided the sources.

Meg · « **Reply #65 on:** April 26, 2018, 03:36:43 PM »

Quote from: happenby on April 26, 2018, 11:51:15 AM

You should never step into a thread guns blazing, calling people names, without having obtained understanding of the subject in advance, or reading related threads. There are more proofs than what I provided here but your statement (above) is proven false.

Origen called the firmament "without doubt firm and solid" (First Homily on Genesis, FC 71).

St. Ambrose, commenting on Gen 1:6, said, 'the specific solidity of this exterior firmament is meant' (Hexameron, FC 42.60).

St. Augustine said the word firmament was used 'to indicate not that it is motionless but that it is solid and that it constitutes an impassable boundary between the waters above and the waters below' (The Literal Meaning of Genesis, ACW 41.1.61)." - p. 236

Saint Basil: “Now we must say something about the nature of the firmament, and why it received the order to hold the middle place between the waters. Scripture constantly makes use of the word firmament to express extraordinary strength....‘I made firm her pillars [Ps. 75:3].’ ‘Praise ye Him in the firmament of His power [Ps. 150:1].’ It is the custom of Scripture to call firmament all that is strong and unyielding. It even uses the word to denote the condensation of the air. God says, ‘For, behold, I am He that strengthens the thunder [Amos 4:13].’ Scripture means by the strengthening of the thunder, the strength and resistance of the wind, which, enclosed in the hollows of the clouds, produces the noise of thunder when it breaks through with violence. Here then, according to me, is a firm substance, capable of retaining the fluid and unstable element water; and as, according to the common acceptation, it appears that the firmament owes its origin to water, we must not believe that it resembles frozen water or any other matter produced by the filtration of water. For I am taught by Scripture not to allow my imagination to wander too far afield. But do not let us forget to remark that, after these divine words, ‘Let there be a firmament [Gen. 1:6],’ it is not said ‘and the firmament was made’ but, ‘God made the firmament, and God divided between the water that was under the firmament and between the water that was above the firmament [Gen. 1:7].’. Saint Basil, “Hom. III(9),” Hexaemeron, NPNF, 2nd Ser., Vol. VIII.

Sorry for the size of the font, can't seem to get it to size down.

Here are the sources again, forlorn. Just in case you didn't pay any attention to the original post.

Jaynek · « **Reply #66 on:** April 26, 2018, 03:48:13 PM »

Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 03:33:32 PM

You said that Happenby had no sources for the belief that Catholics believed in a dome or firmament. She provided the sources.

It was clear that he meant Catholics during the time period under discussion. Taking words out of context to twist their meaning, as you are doing, is intellectual dishonesty.

forlorn · « **Reply #67 on:** April 26, 2018, 04:22:44 PM »

Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 03:33:32 PM

You said that Happenby had no sources for the belief that Catholics believed in a dome or firmament. She provided the sources.

The claim that I disputed was that the Church and the faithful believed in the Flat Earth until Copernicus. I refuted that in the other thread and all Happenby has provided are quotes from over 1,000 years before Copernicus.

apollo · « **Reply #68 on:** April 26, 2018, 07:11:20 PM »

Quote from: cassini on April 25, 2018, 07:10:29 AM

Second. I say: Nor may it be answered that this is not a matter of faith, for if it is not a matter of faith from the point of view of the subject matter, it is on the part of the ones who have spoken. It would be just as heretical to deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve, as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ, for both are declared by the Holy Ghost through the mouths of the prophets and apostles.

I took two days off to think.

This statement from St. Robert Bellarmine says that the ones who have spoken (the Church Fathers)
consider it a mater of faith that one must believe in Geocentrism.

OK, they have given their opinions. Their opinions do NOT make it a doctrine of the Church.
A doctrine much be declared to be so by a Pope, when speaking ex-Cathedra on a matter of faith and morals.

apollo · « **Reply #69 on:** April 26, 2018, 07:40:29 PM »

Quote from: cassini on April 25, 2018, 07:10:29 AM

Do you, and a history of like-minded heliocentrists, feel you are more informed or blessed theologians than St Robert in that you know better and biblical geocentrism is a matter for or of science and not of faith? AND THAT IS HOW CONTRADICTING SCRIPTURE by preferring to believe in a fixed-sun solar system, IS HERESY, just as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ.

A Catholic council is always called by and presided over by a pope. Unless that pope, or popes if it goes on after one or more dies, declares it is not an infallible council, such as Vatican II, then it is infallible by means of the pope who called and presided over its decrees.

St. Robert Bellarmine lived in the 17th century. I think, we in the 21st century know more about the workings of the solar system, then scientists
did in the 17th century, except for Galileo and Copernicus.

Contradicting Scripture? Heliocentrism does not contradict Scripture. It is merely your opinion and others' opinions that Geocentrism is Scripture
based. I don't care if all the Church Fathers had the opinion that Geocentrism is Scripture based. I am not required to believe it as a Catholic.

About whether that council is infallible or not, read the following article, taken from:
http://www.geocentrismdebunked.org/the-1633-decree-is-not-a-papal-docuмent-is-not-infallible-and-therefore-is-reformable/

The 1633 Decree is not a Papal Docuмent, is not Infallible, and Therefore is Reformable

Even more of an exaggeration comes from the geocentrists who continue to insist that the 1633 decree was a “papal decree”, backed up explicitly by the authority of the pope. But it bears repeating here what I have demonstrated in detail elsewhere, namely, that the 1633 decree of the Holy Office is not a papal docuмent. As the Catholic Encyclopedia states, “The sentence, passed upon him in consequence, clearly implied a condemnation of Copernicanism, but it made no formal decree on the subject, and did not receive the pope’s signature.” (Galileo)

As I have written previously, some Vatican docuмents are reviewed by the Pope and ordered to be published by him, but they only carry the authority of the curial dicastery that actually wrote the docuмent and do not carry the authority of a papal docuмent or act. Such docuмents are referred to as having been approved in forma communi. Other docuмents are reviewed by the Pope and approved by him in a special way such that they are officially made “his own” and therefore acquire the full authority of a formal papal act. Such docuмents are referred to as having been approved in forma specifica. When a Pope wants to elevate the weight and authority of a docuмent from in forma communi to in forma specifica all he must do is to sign it with the Latin phrase in forma specifica approbavit (Consecrated Phrases: a Latin Theological Dictionary, p. 62).

But the fact is that the 1633 decree against Galileo was never approved by the pope in forma specifica. Therefore it is not a papal decree, period. Fr. Brian hαɾɾιson was correct when he wrote that, “Rome’s 17th-century insistence on geocentrism ... was never promulgated directly and personally by any Pope”.

We are left with a disciplinary decree of a Roman congregation which, while authoritative, could not bind the Catholic Church to a doctrine as an article of faith and is not infallible.

apollo · « **Reply #70 on:** April 26, 2018, 07:56:53 PM »

Taken from (GeocentrismDebunked.com)

"In 1820, the Catholic Church officially closed the debate: Catholics are perfectly free to accept and teach modern cosmological views concerning the motion of the earth while rejecting geocentrism. In 1822, the Church went even further and declared penalties for not allowing the publication of books that present the motion of the earth as a logical conclusion of science."

"In the early 1800s a Catholic astronomer, Canon Giuseppe Settele wrote a book presenting a non-geocentric view—and specifically the motion of the earth on its axis and around the sun—as a clear and logical conclusion from the scientific evidence. Fr. Filippo Anfossi, the Master of the Sacred Palace and hence chief censor for Rome at the time, denied this book an imprimatur on the ground that such a view violates the 1633 decree against Galileo.

"When Canon Settele appealed directly to Pope Pius VII, the question was examined by the Holy Office (the same church body that issued the decree against Galileo), and as result the question of whether it is permitted for Catholics to believe in the mobility of the earth was answered officially in two decrees. Here is the first:

Decree
[Rome], 1820 VIII 16
Vol. I, fol. 174v (Bruni, scribe)

The Assessor of the Holy Office has referred the request of Giuseppe Settele, Professor of Optics and Astronomy at La Sapienza University, regarding permission to publish his work Elements of Astronomy in which he espouses the common opinion of the astronomers of our time regarding the earth’s daily and yearly motions, to His Holiness through Divine Providence, Pope Pius VII. Previously, His Holiness had referred this request to the Supreme Sacred Congregation and concurrently to the consideration of the Most Eminent and Most Reverend General Cardinal Inquisitor. His Holiness has decreed that no obstacles exist for those who sustain Copernicus’ affirmation regarding the earth’s movement in the manner in which it is affirmed today, even by Catholic authors. He has, moreover, suggested the insertion of several notations into this work, aimed at demonstrating that the above mentioned affirmation [of Copernicus], as it has come to be understood, does not present any difficulties; difficulties that existed in times past, prior to the subsequent astronomical observations that have now occurred. [Pope Pius VII] has also recommended that the implementation [of these decisions] be given to the Cardinal Secretary of the Supreme Sacred Congregation and Master of the Sacred Apostolic Palace. He is now appointed the task of bringing to an end any concerns and criticisms regarding the printing of this book, and, at the same time, ensuring that in the future, regarding the publication of such works, permission is sought from the Cardinal Vicar whose signature will not be given without the authorization of the Superior of his Order. [1]

It’s hard to overstate the importance of this decree. Unlike the 1633 decree against Galileo, this decree explicitly invokes the pope’s authority and does not address a single individual but makes a broader decision on the matter. And it rules that there are “no obstacles” and “no difficulties” for Catholics to hold to modern cosmological views, which include both the rotational and translational motion of the earth. It is little wonder, then, that in a 1992 address to the Pontifical Academy of Science, Pope John Paul II stated, “the debate which had not ceased to evolve thereafter, was closed in 1820 with the imprimatur given to the work of Canon Settele” [2].

In 1822 the Holy Office issued a follow-up decree, which actually applies penalties for not allowing the publication of books that present the motion of the earth as a logical conclusion of science:

The most excellent [cardinals] have decreed that there must be no denial, by the present or by future Masters of the Sacred Apostolic Palace, of permission to print and to publish works which treat of the mobility of the earth and of the immobility of the sun, according to the common opinion of modern astronomers, as long as there are no other contrary indications, on the basis of the decrees of the Sacred Congregation of the Index of 1757 and of this Supreme [Holy Office] of 1820; and that those who would show themselves to be reluctant or would disobey, should be forced under punishments at the choice of [this] Sacred Congregation, with derogation of [their] claimed privileges, where necessary.[3]
This decree, too, was approved by Pope Pius VII."

apollo · « **Reply #71 on:** April 26, 2018, 08:09:00 PM »

Sorry for the large font size in the last reply. When I try to reduce it, other problems occur, like putting things in quotes (orange) that should not be.

I have a comment about the wording in the Bible in the Psalms, when David is speaking. David says, "The earth shall not be moved".
I think it is Solomon who talks about the pillars of the earth and the foundation. What is missing in David's wording is shown below
in red.

"The earth shall not be moved from its foundations."

There is a lot of discussion about foundations (e.g. the mountains shall be moved from their foundations).
It certainly appears that David and Solomon thought the earth had a foundation as if it were a flat earth on pillars.

So. to say that this is divine revelation that the earth is the center of the solar system and does not rotate,
is a huge stretch of the imagination.

happenby · « **Reply #72 on:** April 26, 2018, 10:32:46 PM »

Quote from: apollo on April 26, 2018, 08:09:00 PM

Sorry for the large font size in the last reply. When I try to reduce it, other problems occur, like putting things in quotes (orange) that should not be.

I have a comment about the wording in the Bible in the Psalms, when David is speaking. David says, "The earth shall not be moved".
I think it is Solomon who talks about the pillars of the earth and the foundation. What is missing in David's wording is shown below
in red.

"The earth shall not be moved from its foundations."

There is a lot of discussion about foundations (e.g. the mountains shall be moved from their foundations).
It certainly appears that David and Solomon thought the earth had a foundation as if it were a flat earth on pillars.

So. to say that this is divine revelation that the earth is the center of the solar system and does not rotate,
is a huge stretch of the imagination.

An even bigger stretch of the imagination is to try to make Scripture's words fit the globe. It is never really done because the globe just doesn't fit the descriptions. The list below provides some of Scripture's descriptions of earth. Fascinating that the globe is always promoted by the pagan globalists, yet those of us who are Catholic have no problem accepting their paradigm while refusing to study Scripture long enough and well enough to get the real picture. Most would rather just trust modern global science and controlling governments because they never lie to us that much. People have the gall to suggest that Scripture describes a sphere with corners, pillars, a face, a dome, ends, bounds, that when God says circle, He meant ball, that when Scripture describes seeing to the ends of the earth, such ends are found on a sphere.

Scriptures concerning the nature of the heavens/sky above and their relationship to the earth:

Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Job 22:14 (HCSB) Clouds veil Him so that He cannot see, as He walks on the circle of the sky.
Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Psalm 104:
1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
Proverbs 8:27 (ESV) When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep.
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Isaiah 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
Amos 9:6 (NASB) The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth,
He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.
Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

Amos 9:6 It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.
Amos 9:6 (ASV) it is he that buildeth his chambers in the heavens, and hath founded his vault upon the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth; Jehovah is his name.
Amos 9:6 (ESV) it is he that buildeth his chambers in the heaven, and hath founded his vault upon the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea and poureth them out upon the face of the earth; the LORD is his name.
Amos 9:6 (Darby) It is he that buildeth his upper chambers in the heavens, and hath founded his vault upon the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: Jehovah is his name.
Amos 9:6 (NASB) The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth,
He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The Lord is His name.

Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

Job 28:24 For he looketh to the ends of the earth, and seeth under the whole heaven;

Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

1 Samuel 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.

2 Samuel 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.
1 Chronicles 16:30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
Psalm 18:15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
Psalm 75:3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars of it. Selah.
Psalm 93:1 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isaiah 43:6 I'll say to the north, 'Give them up'! and to the south, 'Don't keep them back!' Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
Daniel 4:
10 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Revelation 20:8 He will go out to deceive Gog and Magog, the nations at the four corners of the earth, and gather them for war. They are as numerous as the sands of the seashore.

“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.” --St. Thomas Aquinas

.

apollo · « **Reply #73 on:** April 26, 2018, 11:49:36 PM »

Well, you can quote Scripture all you want, but that does not change the fact that
Geocentrism has never been defined as a doctrine of the Faith, ex-Cathedra,
on the basis of faith and morals in an infallible way.

You seem to be missing that point. You can believe either way: Geocentrism or
Heliocentrism, but you cannot say that Heliocentrism is heresy (and be correct).
If all modern pagan men believe in Heliocentrism, that does not make it a heresy.

I'm not choosing between modern scientists and the Bible. I'm accepting the Bible
as the word of God and allowing the Church to define how it should be interpreted.

I'm not accepting modern science with blind faith. I have studied astronomy, math
and physics, and have formed my own opinion about the solar system. After
studying all things, I have chosen Heliocentrism, which makes a heck of a lot more
sense than Geocentrism. In fact, Geocentrism seems like a joke now. Nobody
can explain it simply, like one can do with Heliocentrism.

BTW, I was told that St. Thomas Aquinas was opposed to the idea that Mary was
conceived without original sin until after it was declared a doctrine of the Faith. So
I don't think he was as perfect as you think.

apollo · « **Reply #74 on:** April 27, 2018, 12:25:09 AM »

Quote from: happenby on April 26, 2018, 10:32:46 PM

An even bigger stretch of the imagination is to try to make Scripture's words fit the globe. .

I don't try to make Scripture's words fit the globe concept. I view Scripture as words spoken by prophets
of ancient times speaking in a way that ancient people could relate to. And, I don't view the Bible as a
science textbook, per se. If it were a science textbook, it would have talked about gravity, velocity, mass
and acceleration as pertaining to the Sun and Earth.

Author Topic: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather) (Read 16712 times)

happenby

Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)

Meg

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forlorn

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Jaynek

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Meg

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Meg

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Jaynek

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forlorn

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apollo

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apollo

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apollo

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apollo

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happenby

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apollo

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apollo

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