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Author Topic: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)  (Read 16705 times)

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Offline cassini

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Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
« Reply #180 on: May 18, 2018, 06:59:55 AM »
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  • POPE ALEXANDER VII ISSUED A PAPAL BULL CONDEMNING HELIOCENTRISM ! JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE THAT HAS HAPPENED  IN THE CHURCH OVER THE CENTURY'S MODERNISTS HAVE INFILTRATED THE CHURCH AND GOTTEN THE PAPACY TO SOFTEN THEIR STANCES ON DIFFERENT THINGS. THEY ALLOW THE DOOR OPEN A CRACK AND THE ENEMY TAKES ADVANTAGE AND FLOODS THROUGH WITH THEIR ERRONEOUS IDEAS ,LIKE HELIOCENTRISM .

    The irreversable decree defining a fixed sun as formal heresy because it contradicted the revelation of Scripture and because it contradicted the reading of Scripture by ALL the Fathers was the 1616 decree. All decrees after that came as a result of the 1616 decree and were based on it. The 1633 trial of Galileo was based on the 1616 decree and the 1664 bull is explained by Fr Roberts below. 


    ‘Towards the end of his Pontificate, it occurred to Alexander VII that it was his duty, as guardian of the household of Israel, to compose and place before the faithful a new Index of prohibited books that should be complete up to his time, and be more conveniently arranged than former indices. Whereupon he set to work with a specially chosen number of Cardinals and in the March of 1664 there issued from the Vatican press a book entitled Index Librorum prohibitorum Alexandri VII. Pontificis Maximi jussu editus. It was prefaced by a Bull wherein the Pope describes this composition of his Index and gives reasons for putting it forth…

    BULLARIUM ROMANUM 1664.

    Super observatione Indicis librorum pro­hibitorum noviter impressi.

    Alexander Papa VII, ad perpetuam rei memoriam

     “For this purpose,” pursues the Pontiff, “we have caused the Tridentine and Clementine Indices to be added to this general Index, and also all the relevant decrees up to the present time, that have been issued since the Index of our predecessor Clement, that nothing profitable to the faithful interested in such matters might seem omitted…. we, having taken the advice of our Cardinals, confirm, and approve with Apostolic authority by the tenor of these presents, and: command and enjoin all persons everywhere to yield this Index a constant and complete obedience.”

         Turning to this Index, we find among the decrees the Pope caused to be added thereto, the following: the “Quia ad notitiam” of 1616; the “monitum” of 1620, declaring the principles advocated by Copernicus on the position and movement of the Earth to be “repugnant to Scripture and to its true and catholic interpretation;” the edict signed by Cardinal Bellarmine prohibiting and condemning Kepler’s Epi­tome Astronomiæ Copernicanæ, the edict of August, 1634, prohibiting and condemning the Dialogo di Galileo Galilei; and under the heading “Libri,” we find: “Libri omnes docentes mobilitatem terræ, et immobilitatem solis, in decree 5 Martii, 1616.” These, therefore, were some of the things the Pope confirmed and approved with apostolic authority by the tenor of his Bull. It is clear, there­fore, that the condemnation of Copernicanism was ratified and approved by the Pope himself, not merely behind the scenes, but publicly in the face of the whole Church, by the authority of a Bull addressed to all the faithful. Nay, more - and I call particular attention to this point - the Index to which the decrees in question were attached, was confirmed and approved by the Pope, not as a thing external to the Bull, but as though actually in it, “quem præsentibus nostris pro inserto haberi volumus;” and therefore it, and all it contained, came to the Church directly from the Pope himself, speaking to her as her Head, “as guardian of the household of Israel, as the shepherd who had to take care of the Lord’s flock, to protect it from the evils that threatened it, to see that the sheep redeemed by the precious blood of the Saviour were not led astray from the path of truth.”’ --- Fr Roberts, The Pontifical Decrees, p.92-3.  


    Offline cassini

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #181 on: May 18, 2018, 08:54:11 AM »
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  • You are not talking about something that can be softened. If, as you say, a Pope condemned Heliocentrism in an infallible way, the Pope who doubted that condemnation, was teaching or believing heresy...manifestly. Like this quote below.

    Pope Benedict XV, IN PRAECLARA SUMMORUM: ...and though this earth on which we live may not be the centre of the universe as at one time was thought, it was the scene of the original happiness of our first ancestors, witness of their unhappy fall, as too of the Redemption of mankind through the Passion and Death of Jesus Christ.

    Pope Benedict here, is definitely doubting an article of faith according to you.

    The Heliocentric heresy is no doubt a most complicated one. It was Cardinal Bellarmine who pointed out that the heresy was AGAINST THOSE THAT HAD SPOKEN. What he meant by this was that every word of Scripture was dictated by the Holy Ghost, no MATTER WHAT THE SUBJECT WAS, and to deny the truth of that subject matter, one that was held by all the Fathers and Tradition since the Church was founded, was the HERESY. He compared this denial of a moving sun to denying THE VIRGIN BIRTH OF CHRIST, for only in the Scriptures is this physical possibility revealed.
       
    Thus to contradict the revelations in Scripture of a moving sun was to deny the word of God. This is probably one of the most interesting aspects of the whole Galileo case. Once it was believed the Church of 1616 got it wrong ON THE SUBJECT MATTER, Catholic exegesis and hermeneutics was forced to TOTALLY CHANGE WITHIN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. 
        
    First of all the 'infallibility' of the 1616 decree (then called the 'irreversibility' of the decrees) was DENIED by thousands of churchmen, theologians and philosophers, BUT NOT BY ONE SINGLE POPE. This is PROOF that the Good Lord will not allow popes to officially deny what a previous pope has decreed infallibly. In 1820 the Holy Office had to face this dilemma, an 'irreversible' dercree that was THOUGHT to be an error on the basis of scientific assertions. But by sheer genius, the Holy Office managed to have their Catholic cake (irreversible decree) and eat it (allow a new type of heliocentrism). The removal of all books advocating advocating heresy from the Index means nothing, as Pope Paul VI removed the INDEX ALTOGETHER but every heresy in them remains heresy.

    As regards the REFORMATION of CATHOLIC EXEGESIS AND HERMENEUTICs, well in order to make the 1616 decree look INSIGNIFICANT they undid St Robert Bellarmine's hermeneutics and said that the 1616 decree was a matter of science (the subject matter) and that no scientific matter or matter of natural philosophy was here TAUGHT by the Holy Ghost. The whole credibility of the Catholic Church as a divinely guided religion DEPENDED NOW ON DENYING IN PUBLIC THAT THE 1616 DECREE WAS BACKED UP IN ANY WAY BY DIVINE GUIDANCE. Now with popes HAVING to go along with this REFORMATION, in order to save the Church from a 1616 decree they believed was proven false, endless contradictions came into being and Biblical understanding came under attack from all quarters from HUMAN REASONING. Accordingly Pope Leo XIII brought out the first encyclical on how the Bible should be understood and read in 1893. In it he allowed changes to some interpretations in LINE WITH THE FINDINGS OF MODERN SCIENCE. So the reformation continued. Now if we bring this to a natural conclusion, you cannot feed five thousand on five loaves of bread and two fishes, can you, so who can deny there was a caravan of bread and fishes nearby and that is what fed them. No miracle there, is there? Or is it a matter of faith God did it with five loaves and two fishes?

    In 1920 Pope Benedict XV of course had to write another encyclical on biblical reading because of the CHAOS of Catholic exegesis. In it he said EVERY WORD OF THE BIBLE IS TRUE. Now we had a situation where every word of the bible is true, yet, according to Galileo's reformation, only supernatural things need be believed as revealed or taught or true. This was a great encyclical, but how can one pope 'CORRECT' a previous pope's encyclical? As for his 'MAY NOT BE THE CENTER OF THE WORLD' in his Dante Letter, well he was a victim of Einsteinianism that allowed heliocentrism and geocentrism. So Poper Benedict XV was NOT DENYING THE 1616 DECREE OR GEOCENTRISM, merely giving the opinion of science at the time. 

    So on went the reinterpreting according to modern science. Finally Pope Pius XII in 1943 opened the Bible up to Big Bang theistic evolution. Now the Bible is little more than a story-book as regards all the natural philosophy and facts in it that we are told is the word of God that cannot be used to support anything in nature today.
      


    Offline cassini

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #182 on: May 18, 2018, 09:13:56 AM »
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  • Galileo did not have enough science evidence to support his theories.  He tried to make his case stronger by pressuring the Church to reinterpret Scripture.  He totally deserved his condemnation.  Later heliocentrism was less objectionable, so I can understand the popes softening their views.  I can't think of any docuмentation for what their motives were.

    Here is the Wikipedia summary:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

    Here is an English translation of the 1820 decree:http://inters.org/approval-Settele-heliocentric

    'Less objectionable' is one way of putting it Jaynek, believed as proven true is the fact of it, but not by all churchmen. There were champions of the irreversible 1616 decree in the Holy Office of the time. They insisted it was an infallible decree, in other words it had to be a truth. Olivieri had to concede, yes he said, it was irreversible. So how can you have an irreversible false decree, yet allow heliocentrism to be belieed.?

    Thankfully, we now have copies of the docuмents that spell out all the arguments put forward in 1741 and 1820 in order to get popes to repeal the ban on heliocentric books.

    I found them all translated in Maurice A. Finocchiaro's RETRYING GALILEO 2007.

    Offline cosmas

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #183 on: May 18, 2018, 09:58:18 AM »
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  • I thought this was an interesting observation , at Fatima THE BLESSED MOTHER had the sun come hurtling down toward the Earth. Why not have the Earth hurtle toward the sun ? A mystery we'll find out someday.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #184 on: May 18, 2018, 02:44:23 PM »
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  • 'Less objectionable' is one way of putting it Jaynek, believed as proven true is the fact of it, but not by all churchmen. There were champions of the irreversible 1616 decree in the Holy Office of the time. They insisted it was an infallible decree, in other words it had to be a truth. Olivieri had to concede, yes he said, it was irreversible. So how can you have an irreversible false decree, yet allow heliocentrism to be belieed.?

    Thankfully, we now have copies of the docuмents that spell out all the arguments put forward in 1741 and 1820 in order to get popes to repeal the ban on heliocentric books.

    I found them all translated in Maurice A. Finocchiaro's RETRYING GALILEO 2007.

    Indeed, Finocchiaro's sizeable book is a great source of docuмentation.  That said, it is interesting to note a rather cogent comment of Dr. Robert Sungenis concerning this book.  It may be seen as a word to the wise before one proceeds in reading the book.

    While admitting that Finocchiaro is a respected Galileo historian Sungenis states that Finocchiaro,  "admits in the opening pages of his latest work [Retrying Galileo] that he is driven to uncover every detail of the Galileo affair because, as he says, 'a key recurring question has been whether, how, and why the condemnation was right or wrong, and that is what the title Retrying Galileo is meant to convey.'  Finocchiaro believes the Church was sincerely wrong. Hence, his motivation for 'retrying' Galileo is too find the 'real' reason the Church took such a strong stance, since he can’t believe the Church could be so obtuse to science." [my emphasis]


    Offline cassini

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #185 on: May 18, 2018, 03:14:30 PM »
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  • Indeed, Finocchiaro's sizeable book is a great source of docuмentation.  That said, it is interesting to note a rather cogent comment of Dr. Robert Sungenis concerning this book.  It may be seen as a word to the wise before one proceeds in reading the book.

    While admitting that Finocchiaro is a respected Galileo historian Sungenis states that Finocchiaro,  "admits in the opening pages of his latest work [Retrying Galileo] that he is driven to uncover every detail of the Galileo affair because, as he says, 'a key recurring question has been whether, how, and why the condemnation was right or wrong, and that is what the title Retrying Galileo is meant to convey.' Finocchiaro believes the Church was sincerely wrong. Hence, his motivation for 'retrying' Galileo is too find the 'real' reason the Church took such a strong stance, since he can’t believe the Church could be so obtuse to science." [my emphasis]

    Yes KlasG4e, Finocchiaro is a heliocentrist who thinks the Church was wrong. Many of his comments are those of the Toms, Dicks and Harrys I spoke about that the Church allowed to decide the authority of the decrees against biblical heliocentrism.
    But his history is
    excellent, with no bias or favour, and he tells it as it really happened. Only for him the ignorance about the Galileo case would still be a mixture of fact and fiction it has been for hundreds of years.

    Offline apollo

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #186 on: July 21, 2018, 12:02:28 AM »
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  • Right.  And by the looks of your answers devoid of reason, proof or sense, its obvious that you couldn't lick the boots of this gal if you had a ladder.
    Oh, you got me with that scientific explanation.  I cannot refute that, especially the boots part.
    OK, if you want to do ad-hominum attacks ...
    I hope you get ahead in life ... you need one.
    Pax tecuм.

    Offline roscoe

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #187 on: July 21, 2018, 02:01:02 AM »
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  • Indeed, Finocchiaro's sizeable book is a great source of docuмentation.  That said, it is interesting to note a rather cogent comment of Dr. Robert Sungenis concerning this book.  It may be seen as a word to the wise before one proceeds in reading the book.

    While admitting that Finocchiaro is a respected Galileo historian Sungenis states that Finocchiaro,  "admits in the opening pages of his latest work [Retrying Galileo] that he is driven to uncover every detail of the Galileo affair because, as he says, 'a key recurring question has been whether, how, and why the condemnation was right or wrong, and that is what the title Retrying Galileo is meant to convey.' Finocchiaro believes the Church was sincerely wrong. Hence, his motivation for 'retrying' Galileo is too find the 'real' reason the Church took such a strong stance, since he can’t believe the Church could be so obtuse to science." [my emphasis]
    I am not sure who Finocchiaro is but he is correct  as the 'real' reason Galileo was condemned ( at least in 1633) is his concept of Quantum/Atom physics-- not astronomy. See my article The Real Galileo at  firstjesuits.wordpress.com
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #188 on: July 21, 2018, 09:50:34 AM »
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  • Terrestrial literally means of or relating to the Earth. Calling the Earth a terrestrial body is like calling the Sun a solar body.
    .
    Or the moon a lunar body, or Mars a Martian body. 
    .
    Remember the FirMarsament
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #189 on: July 21, 2018, 10:02:50 AM »
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  • I thought this was an interesting observation, at Fatima THE BLESSED MOTHER had the sun come hurtling down toward the Earth.

    Why not have the Earth hurtle toward the sun? A mystery we'll find out someday.
    .
    If the earth had done the moving, then everyone all around the globe would have noticed, but only those at Fatima noticed.
    The miracle was for those who came to the Cova da Iria, not for those who did not come.
    Scripture says the earth "shall not be moved," so Our Lady wouldn't want the atheists to say the Bible was wrong.
    .
    Might have to do with the end of the world, which seemed to be happening then, but did not.
    Scripture says the heavens will be rolled up like a scroll and the stars will lose their regular motion.
    Most of the eye witnesses were convinced on the spot that the world was ending right there.
    They fell to their knees and began to confess their sins out loud.
    Atheists were converted.
    The blind, sick and deaf were cured.
    Everyone's clothes became dry and freshly laundered.
    The muddy soil was suddenly dry.
    People's shoes that had been stuck in the mud were clean, and resting normally on dry soil.
    .
    From a scientific perspective none of it makes any sense.
    People's shoes should have been stuck in dried dirt, and they'd have to dig them out.
    Dry clothes, maybe, but laundered and fresh? Impossible! Tell that to the eye witnesses.
    Physically, the energy required to dry all those clothes and remove the moisture from the mud would have cooked the people.
    Everyone would have died instantly, from a purely physical and normal drying by the sun's heat.
    How the sun could have appeared as it did, moving that way, is entirely outside the possibility of nature.
    Totally unbelievable.
    Unquestionably the greatest physical miracle in modern times.
    Comparable to the parting of the Red Sea or the 10 plagues of Egypt or the fire that erupted from the Temple reconstruction.
    It was given "so that all may believe," but even to this day 100 years later, there are doubters.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline apollo

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #190 on: July 21, 2018, 03:23:23 PM »
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  • "Let all the earth be moved at his presence: for he hath founded the world immoveable."
     [1 Paralipomenon (1 Chronicles) 16:30]

    "Adore ye the Lord in his holy court. Let all the earth be moved at his presence."
     [Psalms 95:9]

    "A psalm for David himself. The Lord hath reigned, let the people be angry: he that sitteth on the cherubims: let the earth be moved."
     [Psalms 98:1]

    "With breaking shall the earth be broken, with crushing shall the earth be crushed, with trembling shall the earth be moved."
     [Isaias (Isaiah) 24:19]

    "They have not known nor understood: they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth shall be moved."
     [Psalms 81:5]

    "For this I will trouble the heaven: and the earth shall be moved out of her place, for the indignation of the Lord of hosts, and for the day of his fierce wrath."
     [Isaias (Isaiah) 13:13]

    "And the Lord shall roar out of Sion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem: and the heavens and the earth shall be moved, and the Lord shall be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel."
     [Joel 3:16]

    .
    Sorry, every time I try to clean this up, it gets worse.
    .
    Here are the results you get when you search the Douay-Rheims Bible for "earth be moved".
    You can do the search yourself with this link:

    http://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=earth+be+moved&b=drb

    I would like somebody to tell me how the word "rotating" or "orbiting" makes any sense in any of these verses.  
    Yet, you Geocentrists tell me that "earth shall not be moved" means the earth is not rotating and not orbiting the Sun.

    Whereas the word "shaken" or "trembling" makes a lot of sense in these verses.  
    Why is there any mention of "foundations" when talking about the earth?  And "pillars"?  

    The Bible is so unscientific and like a caveman, when it comes to astronomy,
    yet you CathInfo people cling to Geocentrism, like a drowning man clings to a life-saver.  Why?  

    Because all science is EVIL.  Gravity is EVIL.  NASA is EVIL.  Heliocentrists are EVIL.  
    And, the Church fathers were great scientists, nearly infallible and they believed in Geocentrism.

    Yes, I know, you are not going to change.  










    Offline roscoe

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #191 on: July 21, 2018, 06:14:51 PM »
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  • E & S are BOTH in motion.... :sleep:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #192 on: July 22, 2018, 01:14:47 AM »
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  • E & S are BOTH in motion.... :sleep:
    How so?

    Offline apollo

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #193 on: July 22, 2018, 11:04:54 AM »
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  • Yet, you Geocentrists tell me that "earth shall not be moved" means the earth is not rotating and not orbiting the Sun.
    Whereas the word "shaken" or "trembling" makes a lot of sense in these verses.  
    Why is there any mention of "foundations" when talking about the earth?  And "pillars"?  
    The Bible is so unscientific and like a caveman, when it comes to astronomy,
    Actually, I don't think the Bible says anything about Astronomy (earth rotating or orbiting).
    It says "shall not be moved" and "by trembling shall be moved" and at the presence of God
    "shall be moved".  It is talking about trembling and shaking and crumbling of the foundations.
    This is not Astronomy.  This is Geography or Geophysics (earthquakes, tremors, etc.)

    Offline cassini

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    Re: "The Heliocentric Hoax" (by Fr. Robinson's stepfather)
    « Reply #194 on: July 23, 2018, 02:07:21 PM »
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  • "Let all the earth be moved at his presence: for he hath founded the world immoveable."
     [1 Paralipomenon (1 Chronicles) 16:30]

    "Adore ye the Lord in his holy court. Let all the earth be moved at his presence."
     [Psalms 95:9]

    "A psalm for David himself. The Lord hath reigned, let the people be angry: he that sitteth on the cherubims: let the earth be moved."
     [Psalms 98:1]

    "With breaking shall the earth be broken, with crushing shall the earth be crushed, with trembling shall the earth be moved."
     [Isaias (Isaiah) 24:19]

    "They have not known nor understood: they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth shall be moved."
     [Psalms 81:5]

    "For this I will trouble the heaven: and the earth shall be moved out of her place, for the indignation of the Lord of hosts, and for the day of his fierce wrath."
     [Isaias (Isaiah) 13:13]

    "And the Lord shall roar out of Sion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem: and the heavens and the earth shall be moved, and the Lord shall be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel."
     [Joel 3:16]

    .
    Sorry, every time I try to clean this up, it gets worse.
    .
    Here are the results you get when you search the Douay-Rheims Bible for "earth be moved".
    You can do the search yourself with this link:

    http://drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=earth+be+moved&b=drb

    I would like somebody to tell me how the word "rotating" or "orbiting" makes any sense in any of these verses.  
    Yet, you Geocentrists tell me that "earth shall not be moved" means the earth is not rotating and not orbiting the Sun.

    Whereas the word "shaken" or "trembling" makes a lot of sense in these verses.  
    Why is there any mention of "foundations" when talking about the earth?  And "pillars"?  

    The Bible is so unscientific and like a caveman, when it comes to astronomy,
    yet you CathInfo people cling to Geocentrism, like a drowning man clings to a life-saver.  Why?  

    Because all science is EVIL.  Gravity is EVIL.  NASA is EVIL.  Heliocentrists are EVIL.  
    And, the Church fathers were great scientists, nearly infallible and they believed in Geocentrism.

    Yes, I know, you are not going to change.  

    AND I WILL TELL YOU WHY APPOLLO

    The interpretation of the 'movements' and 'non movements' of the Earth in Scripture was considered by many of the greatest theologians of the Catholic Church in the first half of the 17th century. These were men trying to retain the Catholic position during the early part of the Protestant reformation, wherein Protestants were interpreting the Scriptures for themselves. The Council of Trent had laid down the rules, that the CHURCH, and not individuals, will decide what the Scriptures say and do not say.

    ‘Furthermore, in order to curb imprudent clever persons, the synod decrees that no one who relies on his own judgement in matters of faith and morals, which pertain to the building up of Christian doctrine, and that no one who distorts the Sacred Scripture according to his own opinions, shall dare to interpret the said Sacred Scripture contrary to that sense that is held by holy Mother Church, whose duty it is to judge regarding the true sense and interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers, even though interpretations of this kind were never intended to be brought to light. Let those who shall oppose this be reported by their ordinaries and be punished with the penalties prescribed by law.’ -- (Denzinger - 786)

    Having considered tradition and the interpretation of ALL the Fathers with regard the 'movements' or 'non movements' of the Earth, in 1616, Pope Paul V, using the Index as was his prerogrative to issue his papal decree, made it quite clear that the CHURCH found the Scriptures reveal the Earth does not move.

    As regards biblical quotes of a moving Earth, many of which you refer us to, were considered by the Church in 1615/16, and it is long known that they refer to the Earth being shaken locally by Earthquakes, volcanoes, landslides etc. In other cases sometimes such passages refer to shaken men who live on it, and who either through fear or astonishment at some divine occurrences are moved in different ways.

    So, play out the Protestant all you like Apollo and think you know more about biblical interpretation better that the Fathers, Cardinal Bellarmine and the popes up to 1741, but I for one, with others on this forum, will not be moved.