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Author Topic: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"  (Read 2724 times)

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Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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"SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
« on: March 21, 2017, 05:39:55 AM »
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    • I took the translation from RC but a translation of original may have more information. I haven't read it yet. Source  http://www.marcotosatti.com/2017/03/20/vaticano-lefebvre-a-un-passo-dalla-firma-dellaccordo-le-foto-della-possibile-nuova-sede-a-roma/

    Third Time's the Charm - Tosatti: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement" - The future Roman headquarters

    1988: Society of Saint Pius X leader Abp. Lefebvre signs, the following day he changes his mind when John Paul II and Card. Ratzinger are not clear on the matter of bishops.

    2012: Just as SSPX Superior-general is called to Rome to what he thinks is the final signing, Ratzinger, now Benedict XVI, has one of the greatest about-faces of his Pontificate and, pressured by some Cardinals, asks for another doctrinal statement. The deal falls.

    2017: all signs point to an imminent agreement between the ultra-liberal Pontiff from Argentina, Francis, and the ultra-conservative Traditionalist Society.

    This Monday evening in Rome, religious correspondent Marco Tosatti (with Sandro Magister, the best reader of the current Pontificate) confirms that just one set of signatures separates the Society from full integration within the Church.

    Not only that, he confirms news that RORATE had: unlike the fake news spread out last month about the Church of Saint Mary on the Esquiline Hill (that belongs to the Vicariate of the City of Time and is not for sale), the building being negotiated for the Roman headquarters of the Society is this:




    It's the Church and former school and convent of the Sisters of the Immaculate Conception -- a complex that includes the Church of Saint Mary Immaculate and Saint Benedict Joseph Labre, in the Tuscolano neighborhood of Rome (corner of Via Monza and Via Taranto), very near the Basilica of the Holy Cross in Jerusalem and near the Cathedral of Rome, St. John in the Lateran.

    We know that because we have learned that the Sisters havealready contacted the appropriate Roman Curia congregation and is waiting for authorization to continue negotiations.

    ***

    Francis and the SSPX: It really is a matter more of when than of if.
    Labels: Personal Prelature of Saint Pius X, SSPX under Pope Francis
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #1 on: March 21, 2017, 07:20:47 AM »
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    • So...a church is being purchased in Rome by the SSPX....it just isn't the one that was reported by Resistance sources. I've not ever known Fr. Girouard to get anything that wrong before, but he got his info from the Reconquista website regarding the SSPX purchase of the Esquilline church, and it was also reported that archbishop Guido Pozzo, the head of Ecclesia Dei, was helping with the purchase. Evidently, that was wrong too. Oh well.

    It's still very telling that the SSPX has purchased a property in Rome, since this indicates that a deal may be immanent.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline mw2016

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #2 on: March 21, 2017, 11:26:22 AM »
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    • That's why Bp. Fellay's interview and the SSPX's "official" statement about this sounded like such a LIE because it had that HEDGE in it:

    "Well, we're looking to buy a Church....but just not THAT Church...."

    Once again, (as ALWAYS) the SSPX got scooped and leaked: their plans came out BEFORE they wanted them to. And once again, it put them in the position of having to make a statement.
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    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #3 on: March 21, 2017, 01:32:59 PM »
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    • Catholic World News:
    Vatican official confirms: agreement with SSPX is close
    March 20, 2017
    The secretary of the Ecclesia Dei commission has confirmed that the Vatican is close to an agreement with the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) that would regularize the status of the traditionalist group.
    Archbishop Guido Pozzo told the German newspaper Die Tagespost that the Vatican will ask the SSPX to endorse a formal declaration, resolving some remaining doctrinal issues. However, confirming what SSPX leaders have said, the Archbishop Pozzo acknowledged that the SSPX would be allowed to continue raising questions about some teachings of Vatican II. Over the years, the archbishop observed, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has answered a number of questions about conciliar docuмents, and “I do not see why this work of clarification and answers to doubts and reservations... could not be carried forward.”
    Archbishop Pozzo said that, in interpreting the docuмents of Vatican II, one clear principle would be continuity: that if an understanding of the Council’s message involves a break with the constant teaching of the Church, “this intepretation must be rejected as false or inadequate.”
    The archbishop suggested that the cause of reconciliation for the SSPX should be confided to the care of Our Lady of Fatima, as the Church approaches the 100th anniversary of the apparitions.(emphasis mine)


    So...we can expect May 13th to be the announcement date.

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    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #4 on: March 21, 2017, 01:44:45 PM »
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    • Meg:
    Quote
    I've not ever known Fr. Girouard to get anything that wrong before, but he got his info from the Reconquista website regarding the SSPX purchase of the Esquilline church, and it was also reported that archbishop Guido Pozzo, the head of Ecclesia Dei, was helping with the purchase. Evidently, that was wrong too.


    Neither Fr. Girouard or the Reconquista were wrong. The reporter was. Or was he? It is entirely possible that the convent of the Sisters of the Immaculate Conception was more agreeable to both parties. You are right about the deal being imminent for the purchase of a church under the diocese of Rome.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #5 on: March 21, 2017, 01:54:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora on March 21, 2017, 01:44:45 PM
    Meg:

    Neither Fr. Girouard or the Reconquista were wrong. The reporter was. Or was he? It is entirely possible that the convent of the Sisters of the Immaculate Conception was more agreeable to both parties. You are right about the deal being imminent for the purchase of a church under the diocese of Rome.


    Have you read the original article on the subject from the Reconquista blog? How familiar are you with the original story?

    Not being able to read the original Reconquista article, I have no idea what it said, or who the reporter was, or even if there was a reporter. And really, it doesn't matter all that much. It would just be nice to know what happened, that caused the confusion. Fr. Girouard is a good priest, and I'm not saying that he is in any way at fault. The O.P. says that the story of the SSPX purchasing the Esquilline in Rome was "Fake news," but I'm sure that Fr. Girouard was not aware that there might have been a problem with the story.

    At least the SSPX has been forced to admit that they are purchasing a property in Rome.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #6 on: March 21, 2017, 02:44:39 PM »
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    • The original Italian says: "Lefebvre scriveva che se il Concilio Vaticano II fosse interpretato nell’ermeneutica della continuità, non ci sarebbe nessun problema per una comunione totale con Roma." ("Lefebvre wrote that if Vatican II were interpreted with a hermeneutic of continuity, there would be no problem in a total union with Rome."). Where did he say this?
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    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #7 on: March 21, 2017, 03:07:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Geremia on March 21, 2017, 02:44:39 PM
    The original Italian says: "Lefebvre scriveva che se il Concilio Vaticano II fosse interpretato nell’ermeneutica della continuità, non ci sarebbe nessun problema per una comunione totale con Roma." ("Lefebvre wrote that if Vatican II were interpreted with a hermeneutic of continuity, there would be no problem in a total union with Rome."). Where did he say this?

    Good question. I assume +Fellay told Rome because he told Cardinal Canizares Llovera around 2011 or 2012, that 'If ABL had seen the Mass as offered at the Abbey near Florence (the reform of the reform mass), ABL would have never taken the step he did'. +Fellay denied he said it but +Williamson mentioned it on the next issue of his E.C.
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    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #8 on: March 21, 2017, 03:19:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on March 21, 2017, 01:54:52 PM

    Have you read the original article on the subject from the Reconquista blog? How familiar are you with the original story?

    Not being able to read the original Reconquista article, I have no idea what it said, or who the reporter was, or even if there was a reporter. And really, it doesn't matter all that much. It would just be nice to know what happened, that caused the confusion. Fr. Girouard is a good priest, and I'm not saying that he is in any way at fault. The O.P. says that the story of the SSPX purchasing the Esquilline in Rome was "Fake news," but I'm sure that Fr. Girouard was not aware that there might have been a problem with the story.

    At least the SSPX has been forced to admit that they are purchasing a property in Rome.

    The original report came from the Vaticanist Matteo Matzuzzi in the Feb 23rd or 24th edition of Il Foglio and The Eponymous flower published the article below.

    http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2017/02/society-of-saint-pius-x-on-their-way.html

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    Offline Meg

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #9 on: March 21, 2017, 03:36:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora on March 21, 2017, 03:19:33 PM
    The original report came from the Vaticanist Matteo Matzuzzi in the Feb 23rd or 24th edition of Il Foglio and The Eponymous flower published the article below.

    http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2017/02/society-of-saint-pius-x-on-their-way.html

    I'm aware of the Il Foglio article, but that's not the one that I've been referring to. The Il Foglio article came out on Feb. 24. The communication from Fr. Girouard was posted here on Feb. 17:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/update-more-details-about-bishop-fellay-meeting-with-pope/

    The info regarding the supposed purchase of the Esquilline was mentioned in the communication from Fr. Girouard, and he got that info from Reconquista. I've looked on Reconquista, and it doesn't have anything about a purchase of the Esquilline, but it does have an article about Bp. Fellay's meeting with the Pope.

    No matter. It's not a big deal. I was just wondering where Reconquista originally obtained the info, though it seems to have been removed from the website. It's just a miscommunication somewhere no doubt.

    carry on.  :)
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline noOneImportant

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #10 on: March 21, 2017, 06:31:10 PM »
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    • We've been seeing this exact same headline for months, if not a year or more, now. It's always "right around the corner". At this point, I'll believe it when I see it.
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    Offline mw2016

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #11 on: March 21, 2017, 08:23:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora on March 21, 2017, 01:44:45 PM
    Meg:

    Neither Fr. Girouard or the Reconquista were wrong. The reporter was. Or was he? It is entirely possible that the convent of the Sisters of the Immaculate Conception was more agreeable to both parties. You are right about the deal being imminent for the purchase of a church under the diocese of Rome.
    I think it looks like the reporter got it wrong, seeing as how the two Churches being discussed are nearly identically named: "Church of St. Mary" and "Church of St. Mary Immaculate." 
    Sounds like he just mixed up the names.
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    Offline mw2016

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #12 on: March 21, 2017, 08:24:43 PM »
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    • Somebody toss me a thumbs up to get me off the number of +666!

    :(

    ??? 

    :o
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    Offline mw2016

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #13 on: March 21, 2017, 08:26:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora on March 21, 2017, 01:32:59 PM



    The archbishop suggested that the cause of reconciliation for the SSPX should be confided to the care of Our Lady of Fatima, as the Church approaches the 100th anniversary of the apparitions.(emphasis mine)


    So...we can expect May 13th to be the announcement date.
    Or, October 13th if the SSPX drags their feet.
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    Offline mw2016

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    Re: "SSPX and Vatican just one step from final agreement"
    « Reply #14 on: March 21, 2017, 10:44:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: mw2016 on March 21, 2017, 08:24:43 PM
    Somebody toss me a thumbs up to get me off the number of +666!

    :(

    ???

    :o
    Thank you to whoever did it! LOL
    :cheers:
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