Author Topic: "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"  (Read 3641 times)

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Offline Nishant

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"Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
« on: July 09, 2012, 01:10:35 PM »
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  • http://www.la-croix.com/Religion/S-informer/Actualite/Le-rapprochement-avec-Rome-divise-les-lefebvristes-_NG_-2012-07-08-828696

    Translation from Rorate:

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/07/la-croix-on-sspx-general-chapter.html

    Quote


    La Croix on the SSPX General Chapter

    The midterm General Chapter of the Society of Saint Pius X (FSSPX /SSPX) is under way in Écône, Switzerland. The semi-official daily of the French Episcopate, La Croix, has a good overview of the event.

    Rapprochement with Rome divides ... SSPX

    A General Chapter of the Society of Saint Pius X begins on Monday, July 9, in Écône (Switzerland), while the Lefebvrist movement is crossed by strong tensions

    The doctrinal preamble proposed by Rome for discussion is the object of lively debates. One third of the Society is supposed to be opposed to Bp. Bernard Fellay, their Superior General, and to any agreement.

    Officially, there are "no dissenssions": "No group or priest has announced that he would leave the Society," Father Grégoire Célier, spokesman of the French District, affirms. However, deep divisions have  appeared these last few weeks between the majority led by Bp. Bernard Fellay, the Superior General, favorable to an agreement with Rome, and a hardline wing, hostile to him and that could attempt a coup of force during the Chapter.

    That is shown by the exchange of letters made public on May 10 on the internet displaying the lively disagreement between the leader of the Lefebvrists and the three other bishops of the Society, who have condemned any practical agreement. Or, more recently, the putting aside of Bp. Richard Williamson, due to "his stand calling to rebellion."

    According to several observers, "Bp. Fellay unquestionably wants an agreement, and has moved forward considerably." In his June 29 sermon, he certainly recognized: "We have returned to the point of departure, in which we said we could not sign." But he also reminded: "We are Roman, and this we cannot put behind us. Even if we have to suffer from the Rome of today, we cannot renounce Rome, head of the Church."
       
    One third of the Society opposed to the agreement

    He seems to want to give assurances to both sides: to Rome, by discarding Bp. Williamson from the General Chapter and refusing to ordain priests for the "friendly" communities most opposed to an agreement; and his troops, by refusing to yield to the new conditions posed by the latest version of the doctrinal preamble, put forward by the pope. In any event, someone close to the Society of Saint Pius X analyses, "all that serves to psychologically prepare the spirits for an agreement."

    Moreover, in this context of pressures and leaks, this midterm General Chapter for Bp. Fellay, reelected in 2006 for twelve years, should be the occasion to evaluate the support which he has. He knows that most districts are loyal to him, particularly the most important ones (Germany and the United States).

    On the other hand, those of Ireland and England are strongly opposed to any agreement, and France, which represents one third of the Society, also poses problems: among 37 French priories, between one fourth and one third would be opposed to it.  

    In total, according to several observers questioned by La Croix, one third of the Society is loyal to Bp. Fellay, another third, "the legitimists", would follow him no matter what may come, but a last third would be hostile to any agreement with Rome and to the Superior General.

    The threat of rebellion
     
    This hostility is more widely based on the resentment of a good number of priests against the administration, deemed authoritarian, of Bp. Fellay, While Bp. Williamson has lost all credibility, Bp. Alfonso de Galarreta could be the catalyst of a rebellion, supported by Bp. Bernard Tissier de Mallerais.

    Following the last consultation, the Argentinian [Spanish-born] bishop had explained in detail why "moving in the direction of a practical agreement would mean going back on our word and our promises before our priests, faithful, Rome, and the entire world." In his view, "there is not any change, on the doctrinal level, from Rome, that would justify our [change]. Quite the opposite, discussions have demonstrated that they (Editor note: in Rome) do not accept our criticisms at all."
     
    If an entente is reached, would these opponents proceed to secession? "A considerable portion will not follow in the case of a personal prelature," Father Célier admits. But, following the rejection of the text delivered by Cardinal William Levada, [then] Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on June 13, "the process is once again blocked." In this sense, Father Célier considers, "just because we have returned to a classical situation, the General Chapter will not be any simpler."

    Departures would be minimal

    Besides, what would be of the opponents outside the Society? On one hand, the Lefebvrist priests formed in different seminaries barely know one another from one country to the other, and getting together within a new structure would not at all be easy.

    Most importantly, practical and financial issues should have considerable weight. Bp. Fellay, who was the Treasurer General of the Society of Saint Pius X for twelve years, would have taken the necessary measures so that, on the day on which certain District Superiors became opposed to him, their property would automatically revert to him... Many recognize that "between being opposed to an agreement and seceding, there is a distance."
     
    "If I had to leave my work from one day to the next, my parishioners, my colleagues, what would I become?", Father Célier, who has been "in the Society for 32 years," also asks. Another close [source] confirms it: "There are disagreements, this is clear. That being said, there are maybe 40% of displeased [members], but only 10 to 15% who speak up, and in the end 3% who will leave."

    When Father Philippe Laguérie wished to leave the Society in 2006, 70 priests had promised to follow him, and fewer than 10 effectively did so. Even Father Xavier Beauvais, pastor of Saint-Nicolas-du-Chardonnet, in Paris, who loudly proclaims his opposition to any agreement, would have confided to his entourage: "I'm against it [an agreement], but I won't go against it."
     
    CÉLINE HOYEAU
    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.

    Offline John Grace

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 04:26:46 PM »
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  • Quote
    On the other hand, those of Ireland and England are strongly opposed to any agreement, and France, which represents one third of the Society, also poses problems: among 37 French priories, between one fourth and one third would be opposed to it.


    Whilst two if not three of the priests in Ireland are pro-agreement the people in the pews are anti. The English are certainly to be commended.  Bishop Fellay has always had problems with the Irish.

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    He knows that most districts are loyal to him, particularly the most important ones (Germany and the United States).


    The District to keep an eye on is the United States. There are some anti-agreement fighters in Germany though.


    Offline magdalena

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 05:28:34 PM »
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  • The real coup is that +Fellay, along with Pfluger and Schmidberger, were able to so successfully reverse the direction of the SSPX with little, to no, opposition.  And, of course, the "majority" are behind them because they were appointed by them.  We can only hope that +Tissier and +Galarreta hold tight.  BTW, does anyone know anything about where Fr. Thierry Gaudray stands in all this?  He was a wonderful seminary professor in Winona before he was transferred back to France to be the spiritual director for a group of nuns.  At least that's what I recall.  Maybe he wasn't "Roman" enough for Fr. LeRoux?  I'm hoping he stands behind +Tissier.    
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline Ethelred

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 02:43:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    Whilst two if not three of the priests in Ireland are pro-agreement the people in the pews are anti. The English are certainly to be commended.  Bishop Fellay has always had problems with the Irish.

    Well, that is a big compliment for the Irish.

    Quote
    Quote
    He knows that most districts are loyal to him, particularly the most important ones (Germany and the United States).

    The District to keep an eye on is the United States. There are some anti-agreement fighters in Germany though.

    Yes, some: nearly 25% of the SSPX priests in Germany don't tolerate a sellout to New-Rome (I had to pleasure to hear some of them personally and they'll fight to the last man), and about 50% of the priests in Austria oppose the sellout, too.

    Offline Diego

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 10:42:12 AM »
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  • Rapproachment? No, it is Fellay's aggiornamento.

    Fellay and his power clique, including his court Zionist, are pulling souls into the synagogue of Satan's Novus Ordo "gas chamber."


    Offline Ferdinand

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 11:18:56 AM »
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  • The stench of rapprochement traitors and cowards.

    Quote
    Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
    That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
    Let him depart; his passport shall be made
    And crowns [pieces of silver (30 per)] for convoy [I'm sure will be] put into his purse:
    We would not die in that man's company
    That fears his fellowship to die with us.
    ~ Henry V


    The split has already happened... it has been happening for better than 20 years. Let them depart.

    In the end, we have no need of them or their buildings for that matter!  We need only the unsullied Faith!

    Viva Cristo Rey!




    Offline Incredulous

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #6 on: July 11, 2012, 12:25:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: magdalena
    The real coup is that +Fellay, along with Pfluger and Schmidberger, were able to so successfully reverse the direction of the SSPX with little, to no, opposition.  And, of course, the "majority" are behind them because they were appointed by them.  We can only hope that +Tissier and +Galarreta hold tight.  BTW, does anyone know anything about where Fr. Thierry Gaudray stands in all this?  He was a wonderful seminary professor in Winona before he was transferred back to France to be the spiritual director for a group of nuns.  At least that's what I recall.  Maybe he wasn't "Roman" enough for Fr. LeRoux?  I'm hoping he stands behind +Tissier.    



    No, I don't think Fr. LeRoux is resisting it.
    Did he ever complain when the Angelus Press stopped selling his book, "Peter Lovest Thou Me" in 2009 ?"

    This sell-out was methodically planned at least ten years ago.
    A major phase of the plan was implemented when Bp. Williamson was moved out of Winona.

    I've heard other SSPX oldtimers comment that they've noticed the SSPX priestly formation being subtely changed. It appears +F has been screening seminarians to his way of thinking. There are many comments and observations on this.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline magdalena

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #7 on: July 12, 2012, 08:15:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous
    Quote from: magdalena
    The real coup is that +Fellay, along with Pfluger and Schmidberger, were able to so successfully reverse the direction of the SSPX with little, to no, opposition.  And, of course, the "majority" are behind them because they were appointed by them.  We can only hope that +Tissier and +Galarreta hold tight.  BTW, does anyone know anything about where Fr. Thierry Gaudray stands in all this?  He was a wonderful seminary professor in Winona before he was transferred back to France to be the spiritual director for a group of nuns.  At least that's what I recall.  Maybe he wasn't "Roman" enough for Fr. LeRoux?  I'm hoping he stands behind +Tissier.    



    No, I don't think Fr. LeRoux is resisting it.
    Did he ever complain when the Angelus Press stopped selling his book, "Peter Lovest Thou Me" in 2009 ?"

    This sell-out was methodically planned at least ten years ago.
    A major phase of the plan was implemented when Bp. Williamson was moved out of Winona.

    I've heard other SSPX oldtimers comment that they've noticed the SSPX priestly formation being subtely changed. It appears +F has been screening seminarians to his way of thinking. There are many comments and observations on this.



    "Peter, Lovest Thou Me" was written by Fr. Yves LeRoux's brother, Abbe Daniel LeRoux.  I can't help but wonder if the two brothers are at odds with regards to +Fellay's maneuverings.  My question was whether Fr. Thierry Gaudray was moved from being a seminary professor to a spiritual director for sisters was due to Fr. Gaudray not being compliant enough with the new agenda in the works.  It wouldn't surprise me.  Fr. Gaudray seemed to be both very holy and very intelligent.  Too much so for agreeing to a SSPX-Rome accord.  At least, that's what I hope.  
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42


    Offline magdalena

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #8 on: July 14, 2012, 08:06:27 AM »
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  • From today's Matins:

    "To make sound after the corruption of sin, is the work of Christ's power alone; to preserve from falling away again, is the duty and the toil commanded to the Apostles." (St. John Chrystostom, Patriarch)  

    Therefore, what does +Fellay think he will accomplish?  It has not been given to him.
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline Orla Walsh

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #9 on: July 22, 2012, 06:56:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    Quote
    On the other hand, those of Ireland and England are strongly opposed to any agreement, and France, which represents one third of the Society, also poses problems: among 37 French priories, between one fourth and one third would be opposed to it.


    Whilst two if not three of the priests in Ireland are pro-agreement the people in the pews are anti. The English are certainly to be commended.  Bishop Fellay has always had problems with the Irish.

    Quote
    He knows that most districts are loyal to him, particularly the most important ones (Germany and the United States).


    The District to keep an eye on is the United States. There are some anti-agreement fighters in Germany though.


    John,
    I disagree with you about the priests in Ireland, all priests here are anti the agreement with the exception of maybe two priests.  

    Orla

    Offline Orla Walsh

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #10 on: July 22, 2012, 07:00:56 AM »
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  • There has been always animosity between the Irish and Bishop Fellay but we have to remember what Ireland did for Europe in the middle centuries.  They went out and thought the catechism, sacred scripture and lots of other invaluable traditions that are still in place today.  Europe owe us big time and lest they forget that maybe some day we may save Europe again, always remember what Our beautiful said "Ireland will fall but I will save her", she never said that about any other nation.  

    I often think geographically, we are on the fringe of Europe and often the expression that comes to mind is "out of sight, out of mind"

    Orla


    Offline Flannery

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #11 on: July 24, 2012, 07:35:38 AM »
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  • Hi Orla,

    Could you be more specific about "what Ireland did for Europe in the middle centuries" and how "Europe owes us"?

    Also, are you referring to Knock or what message do you mean about Ireland being saved?

    I'm asking in sincerity because I failed to understand your post.  If you would fill in the missing words, it would help.

    Thanks,
    Flannery

    Offline Incredulous

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    "Rapprochement with Rome divides Lefebvrists"
    « Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 03:12:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: Orla Walsh
    There has been always animosity between the Irish and Bishop Fellay but we have to remember what Ireland did for Europe in the middle centuries.  They went out and thought the catechism, sacred scripture and lots of other invaluable traditions that are still in place today.  Europe owe us big time and lest they forget that maybe some day we may save Europe again, always remember what Our beautiful said "Ireland will fall but I will save her", she never said that about any other nation.  

    I often think geographically, we are on the fringe of Europe and often the expression that comes to mind is "out of sight, out of mind"

    Orla


    This reminds me of the prophetic movie "Catholics", filmed in Ireland at a remote monastery.  They were true to the faith, but the Conciliarists were able to seduce their abbot.     The similarity of this film's plot and the reality of Bp. Fellay's seduction by newRome is chilling.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

     

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