Columba,

Traditionalists would make a very big mistake if they tried to restore the hierarchy of the Church.  They must only remain true to the Catholic Faith and wait.  To remain faithful, that would be a big enough challenge in and of itself.  

Picking up swords and storming the bastille - that's all bloody fun but it will only get you dead and anyone trying out this option will almost certainly commit a mortal sin in the process.

Evangelization is not picking up swords. Remaining faithful requires obedience to the Great Commission. We should be doing this anyway, despite whether or not we have ambitions toward Rome.

I think that if evangelization brought about a massive exodus of faithful from the NO and a massive influx to Tradition, that would motivate heresiarchs to join the winning side or risk losing their Roman office.

With ceasefire declared among participating trad groups, newcomers would not be scared off by the demoralizing factionalism. At the very least, a traditionalist evangelization drive would result in the salvation of souls. It is what we are supposed to be doing anyway.

Quote from: Centroamerica

I happen to like the 3 options proposed by Columba and his conclusion. I am not claiming to be a sedevacantist. However, if there is no pope in Rome and the entire Vatican is occupied by enemies of Christ's Church are we to sit at our comfortable homes on the internet typing about it or are we going to reclaim Rome for Christianity? The crusaders were willing to suffer everything to put the Holylands back into Christian hands and traditionalists who claim to be sedevacantists are willing to forfeit all of Rome to non-Chritians! It is apparent cowardice in my opinion. Christians won't let the see remain empty and occupied by an impost, they would take back their Church and establish a legitimate successor by force. Am I wrong?

The way to reclaim Rome is to elect a Bishop of Rome.  The bishop of Rome must live and provide care to the people of Rome.  He can't live with his parents in the Midwest.  There is nothing preventing Catholic clergy from electing a legitimate bishop of Rome during a sede vacante period.

The trad movement is not yet prepared to either to pressure heresiarchs into conversion or unseat them for the crime of schism. We have been trad survivalists, but not yet graduated to become restorationists. I think it is time to start such a movement as the spark of a mass movement that eventually will convert or displace the modernists in Rome.

The betrayals and scandals of the conciliar church have left a vacuum in the form of unmet demand for genuine Catholicism. The vacuum remains stable only because the false scruples and ignorance of well-meaning NO's remains largely unchallenged by the Church Militant.

We have the answer that millions await. ABL launched operation survival just to keep Tradition alive. That operation succeeded brilliantly but has now run its course. As the chapter of mere survival closes and this next chapter of post Vatican II traditionalism dawns, the theme that emerges is restoration.

Quote from: J.Paul

Quote from: Columba

Quote from: Wessex

These opposite positions should inform their greatly confused congregations that they either are a loyal constituent of the conciliar church (which Menzingen calls the Church) or cannot perform as traditionalists without maintaining a discrete distance from contemorary Rome as she declines and falls again.

ABL wanted to keep some connection with Rome while avoiding a surrender to Modernist control. Certainly many formerly trad societies have been captured by the Modernists, as if drawn in by some mysterious deathstar tractor beam. According to such an analogy, maintaining discrete distance from the newRoman deathstar is necessary to remain properly traditionalist.

Does the traditionalist movement claim to legitimately carry the Apostolic inheritance? If so, then Rome and the Vatican would appear irreplaceable as the seat of the authority included in that inheritance. Therefore, maintaining the claim to Apostolic inheritance requires a serious preparation for the eventual reconquest of Rome.

Archbishop Lefebvre was dancing on a tightrope with an end to the modernist piper's tune nowhere in sight. It was a frightful and fruitless effort as the carnal melody still resounds louder than ever in Rome, having never ceased the siren of Gehenna.

Traditionalists don't really know what heritage they claim if any. There is black and there is white. That is orthodoxy according to what the Church has always said, and according to what She has always taught, believed and practiced.  And there is heterodoxy which exists in rebellion to the former in direct parallel of its dark author.
But most traditionalists in general are happy living in an in between no man's land believing that Catholics can exist with a bit of grey over here and a bit over there as long as they can stand in the white circle on Sunday.

Have you gentleman noticed how many trads - clergy included - simply refuse to look at themselves, at the trad movement, at their trad heros, such as ABL, with any kind of objectivity or healthy critical examination? Have you noticed how immobile, inflexible, and somnambulistic they are? Have you noticed that cliche, party line, 'position,' and default settings have forcefully asserted themselves in that craven realty that self-nominates "traditional Catholic," apparently entirely replacing prayer, meditation, objective consideration, deep study, and consequent militant Catholic action?

What comes out of the mouth comes forth from the heart.

Whenever anything refuses to prune itself, God will come in and do the pruning.

Why yes I have noticed.   :wink:

Does anyone but his mother think he is actually the Vicar of Christ?

I read that he recently got a Bishop to ordain him a priest, consecrate him a bishop, and follow him. I think it was a Thuc line bishop. So he does have a small following. :king:

Quote from: Sigismund

Does anyone but his mother think he is actually the Vicar of Christ?

I read that he recently got a Bishop to ordain him a priest, consecrate him a bishop, and follow him. I think it was a Thuc line bishop. So he does have a small following. :king:

The consecrator is Bishop Robert Biarnesen.  Does anyone know anything about him?

Quote from: Sigismund

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

Quote from: hollingsworth

Anyone who thinks that "Pope Michael" is the Holy Father, the Vicar of Christ on earth is a nut.  I say it without hesitation.  If anyone on this forum thinks Pope Michael is really and truly the pope, that person is a nut!  He is deluded.  He is not in possession of his faculties.  He is, spiritually speaking, a moron!  

In that case, it would be a case of mental illness and not malice nor ignorance.

I don't think anyone who posts on CathInfo thinks "Pope" Michael is actually the Vicar of Christ.  

 

Does anyone but his mother think he is actually the Vicar of Christ?

If I'm not mistaken his mother and father have both publicly expressed regret for their involvement in the affair.

Sadly, no. As per the eponymous docuмentary (filmed in 2009 I believe), his poor father died believing his son to be the Supreme Pontiff and his mother and young Mr Friedl (his "seminarian") remain his "faithful" (and only) followers.

Matto:

I agree but at least he ("Michael") is a true bishop now, which is more than I can say (for sure) about Francis. And a billion people follow him.

Really!? A true bishop now!?  I would be interested to learn from sedes on this forum how many of them, even, believe that this deluded man is a bishop.  He is just another, in a long line of supposed Catholic clerics, bringing shame upon the ancient Faith.

:dancing-banana:
I wonder if "Pope" Michael knows he has two rivals for his throne, one in Tennessee, the other in Maine?  And these are just the two I've encountered in person!  Both are, um...a bit "off."

In Tennessee? Seriously? Could you explain?