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Author Topic: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"  (Read 6472 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2019, 10:55:13 PM »
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    • If validity is your only litmus test for attendance, then had you lived in England under Henry VIII, you’d certainly have become Anglican, whose rites were certainly valid for many decades.  
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #31 on: October 26, 2019, 10:59:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 26, 2019, 10:55:13 PM
    If validity is your only litmus test for attendance, then had you lived in England under Henry VIII, you’d certainly have become Anglican, whose rites were certainly valid for many decades.  

    Are you talking to me?

    I would think not, since nowhere do I discuss validity as a litmus test for attending the NOM.

    But then again, you are not a very careful reader, and an even less precise writer, so I thought I would ask.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline St.Patrick

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #32 on: October 27, 2019, 07:43:45 AM »
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    • Sean,
    Do you distinguish between those who have no understanding of Tradition, and those who do, when it comes to the grace received from Novus Ordo Sacraments?
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #33 on: October 27, 2019, 08:40:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: St.Patrick on October 27, 2019, 07:43:45 AM
    Sean,
    Do you distinguish between those who have no understanding of Tradition, and those who do, when it comes to the grace received from Novus Ordo Sacraments?

    Indirectly:

    If a sacrament is a sacrament, then the grace is contained in it ex opera operato.

    But whether or to what extent that grace is efficacious in the recipient is determined ex opera operantis.

    So, were a trad to receive NOM Communion, for some reason, he would probably receive very little grace (or none at all), as his disposition would be averse.  
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #34 on: October 27, 2019, 05:27:23 PM »
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    I would think not, since nowhere do I discuss validity as a litmus test for attending the NOM.
    Yes, you do.  For you, validity = grace = ok to attend. 
    .
    You make no distinctions for illicit masses, nor immoral behavior.  Ergo, had you lived under Henry VIII, you'd have been an Anglican.  All their sacraments were valid for many decades, yet obviously illicit and immoral.  
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #35 on: October 27, 2019, 05:48:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 27, 2019, 05:27:23 PM
    Yes, you do.  For you, validity = grace = ok to attend.
    .
    You make no distinctions for illicit masses, nor immoral behavior.  Ergo, had you lived under Henry VIII, you'd have been an Anglican.  All their sacraments were valid for many decades, yet obviously illicit and immoral.  

    You are a total dipshit.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #36 on: October 27, 2019, 06:29:38 PM »
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    You are a total dipshit.
    An expected shallow statement from one who can't explain his view and keeps repeating ad nauseam "If it’s a sacrament, Trent applies."  You're very similar to Meg, who just repeats "what +ABL said" like a parrot, but doesn't understand the issue.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #37 on: October 27, 2019, 06:53:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 27, 2019, 06:29:38 PM
    An expected shallow statement from one who can't explain his view and keeps repeating ad nauseam "If it’s a sacrament, Trent applies."  You're very similar to Meg, who just repeats "what +ABL said" like a parrot, but doesn't understand the issue.

    You have the luxury of being a moron, whereas I have the burden of trying to instruct one.

    But I failed you, and you are stuck in moronism.

    I’m sure you will be quite comfortable there, where you can spout moronities ad nauseous until your betters fatigue, and leave you in your ignorance.

    When that happens (repeatedly), you declare victory.

    That is the quintessential moronism.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #38 on: October 27, 2019, 07:20:01 PM »
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    • Typical empty reply from you.   
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #39 on: October 27, 2019, 09:13:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 27, 2019, 05:48:05 PM
    You are a total dipshit.

    I’m so glad the “neo-Resistance” has such an effective social media theologian as Sean Johnson.


    I mean, if Sean wasn’t around to act as Cathinfo’s de facto moderator, we trads might believe...


    the Novus ordo should be banned, that three Baptisms were more than enough and that Jєω Anglicans wouldn’t be canonized in a sane Catholic Church.


    Thank you Sean for standing tall for the  neo-Resistance  :farmer:
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #40 on: October 27, 2019, 09:21:23 PM »
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    If a sacrament is a sacrament, then the grace is contained in it ex opera operato.

    But whether or to what extent that grace is efficacious in the recipient is determined ex opera operantis.

    Isn't it spelled 'opere?"  Please don't confuse us.  It's hard enough just juggling thoughts about grace received and grace conferred, or questioning matters of validity.  At Mass, I don't need to be thinking about tenors and sopranos prancing about on a stage in medieval garb.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #41 on: October 27, 2019, 09:30:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on October 27, 2019, 09:13:32 PM
    I’m so glad the “neo-Resistance” has such an effective social media theologian as Sean Johnson.


    I mean, if Sean wasn’t around to act as Cathinfo’s de facto moderator, we trads might believe...


    the Novus ordo should be banned, that three Baptisms were more than enough and that Jєω Anglicans wouldn’t be canonized in a sane Catholic Church.


    Thank you Sean for standing tall for the  neo-Resistance  :farmer:

    From the woman who says I need my ass whooped several times.

    You paragon of virtue, you!

    I shall strive to replace theology with cartoons and pics to the level you have done!

    What a joke!
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #42 on: October 27, 2019, 09:34:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: hollingsworth on October 27, 2019, 09:21:23 PM
    Isn't it spelled 'opere?"  Please don't confuse us.  It's hard enough just juggling thoughts about grace received and grace conferred, or questioning matters of validity.  At Mass, I don't need to be thinking about tenors and sopranos prancing about on a stage in medieval garb.

    Sorry for the typos, Holly.

    Didn’t mean to tear your world apart.

    It will all be better tomorrow.

    But if not, you can always cry to the Bishop again like a little girl.

    I’m sure he has nothing better to do than respond to your complaints!
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #43 on: October 27, 2019, 11:17:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 26, 2019, 10:55:13 PM
    If validity is your only litmus test for attendance, then had you lived in England under Henry VIII, you’d certainly have become Anglican, whose rites were certainly valid for many decades.  
    I didn't think Sean was saying you should go, only that if, being ignorant of the problems in the NO, you did go, while in a state of grace, and well disposed, you would receive grace from the valid sacrament.

    I don't see how it makes sense to deny *that* unless you say its valid.

    Its a separate question whether a man, knowing the issues, is ever justified in going to the Novus Ordo, or whether *such a man* would be truly well disposed.  But Sean suggested it would at the least be doubtful that that would be the case.
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    Offline King Wenceslas

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    Re: "No honest Catholic should attend an SSPX Mass"
    « Reply #44 on: October 28, 2019, 12:00:38 AM »
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    • Post-conversion Newman on the creation of our first parents:


    Quote
    “Does Scripture contradict Darwin’s Theory - was not Adam taken directly from dust? -Eccles 3:20 - yet we were never dust, we are from fathers. Why not the same be the case with Adam? I don’t know why Adam needs be immediately out of dust -Formavit Deus hominem de limo terrae - ( God formed man from the dust of the earth) I.e. out of what really was dust and mud in nature before he made it what it was.” Letter to E. F. Pusey (The Oratory, 5 June 1870)


    Quote
    “Our first parents were formed immediately by God. Therefore we declare that the opinion of those who do not fear to assert that this human being, man as regards to his body, emerged finally from the spontaneous continuous change of imperfect nature to the more perfect is clearly opposed to Sacred Scripture and to the Faith” - Council of Cologne, 1860 (granted papal approbation by Pius IX)
    Quote
    "We record what is known to all, and cannot be doubted by any, that God, on the sixth day of creation, formed man from the slime of the earth and breathed life into him..," (Arcanum Divinae Sapientiae, Leo XIII).
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