Author Topic: "Internal Problems" (Read 6523 times)

Ladislaus · « **on:** March 23, 2015, 10:37:44 AM »

I wanted to focus on this phrase for a minute.

Basically it means that the leadership of the SSPX have already agreed in principle to the terms of a reconciliation.

What's holding things back are "internal problems".

What kinds of internal problems would hold back a full public agreement and why?

I believe that the answer implies that this entire procedure is a very deliberate and conscious attempt by Rome and also +Fellay to neutralize the Traditional movement.

If the agreement were being pursued simply because it was the right thing to do and a matter of conscience for Bishop Fellay, then it should already have been made public and fully implemented. There's no reason to delay.

What they're afraid of is a large revolt within the SSPX from elements who are already sympathetic with The Resistance position but have been in a holding pattern awaiting formal action on the part of +Fellay.

But why should that matter if this were a question of principle and of conscience?

If some don't want to accept it, then they leave the SSPX. Big deal.

Well, it's only a big deal if the intent is to neutralize Tradition by dragging 95% of the current Traditional Catholic world en masse back into the Conciliar Church. But if even 25% of the SSPX were to split off and re-constitute under the banner of The Resistance, then it would just be a matter of time before it ramped back up to where it was before. So the threat to the Conciliar "authorities" would not have been neutralized and that gadfly of contradiction would remain to cause them trouble.

So the consecration by Bishop Williamson was providential in that regard; it makes The Resistance feel just a tad bit more like an actual concrete organization rather than an idea. As such, whoever all split off from SSPX after a formal agreement is proclaimed in essence have SOMEWHERE TO GO now. With bishops you have seminaries. With seminaries you have priests. With priests chapels. With priests and chapels faithful.

Unfortunately, the implications of this are rather disturbing ... that +Fellay is consciously working with Rome to neutralize Traditional Catholicism.

Maria Auxiliadora · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2015, 12:12:11 PM »

Very well said, Ladislaus. Could not agree more. If it was just a matter of conscience, they would have already expressed publicly their "submission" to Rome regardless of the consequences.

In the meantime, Rome doesn't care if they sink themselves in the process and so divide the traditional movement that it would be easier for them to crush it.

ihsv · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2015, 12:15:31 PM »

There is a war between principalities and powers going on here. So long as there is one "renegade" bishop who can keep the sacraments and the priesthood alive, there will be no rest for the enemies of Christ.

They will not be satisfied until they wipe the very memory of Christ off the face of the earth.

Matthew · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2015, 12:53:42 PM »

Bishop Fellay was the bursar general -- the one who kept the purse and the contents therein.

Our Lord had problems with His treasurer as well...

Those bursars, they always get caught up in the material/human considerations, and lose sight of the divine. They lose trust in God, it seems, being strongly tempted to compromise by prudential, practical, and earthly considerations.

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2015, 12:56:34 PM »

That was a MOST EXCELLENT post, Ladislaus. That was seriously good stuff.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2015, 01:51:58 PM »

Thanks, Matthew.

I just feel that I have a duty to do my best and try my hardest to inform my conscience properly regarding possible responses to this crisis. So I try to think and pray deeply about things; I run them over in my mind and turn them every which way. To me it's very important not to act emotionally to things ... something, as you know, Bishop Williamson always emphasized. As such, I do not want to follow any person in particular, but only the truth and the faith. That comes across as cocky and arrogant, and perhaps it is, but with the vacuum of authority in the Church, I find that it's what I'm stuck with. People say, "Well, listen to your priests." Which priests? +Williamson or +Fellay? SV or R&R or Novus Ordo? And I feel that I do no one any service if I just acquiesce in something simply out of deference for someone with greater rank and/or even virtue. I want to be beaten down with logic and reason and syllogisms.

That's why I love CI so much. We can mix it up here with people who have strongly different opinions. I learn a TON, with so many different arguments and perspectives and opinions, that it's an invaluable aid in trying to navigate this crisis.

stgobnait · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2015, 02:40:52 PM »

Good for you Ladislaus, we are all learning, and caught in the maelstrom, all thought out posts are very helpfull to try and hold the course, those we agree with and those we dont...

Pilar · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2015, 02:43:48 PM »

Quote from: Pilar

Quote from: Ladislaus
I wanted to focus on this phrase for a minute.

Basically it means that the leadership of the SSPX have already agreed in principle to the terms of a reconciliation.

What's holding things back are "internal problems".

What kinds of internal problems would hold back a full public agreement and why?

I believe that the answer implies that this entire procedure is a very deliberate and conscious attempt by Rome and also +Fellay to neutralize the Traditional movement.

If the agreement were being pursued simply because it was the right thing to do and a matter of conscience for Bishop Fellay, then it should already have been made public and fully implemented. There's no reason to delay.

What they're afraid of is a large revolt within the SSPX from elements who are already sympathetic with The Resistance position but have been in a holding pattern awaiting formal action on the part of +Fellay.

But why should that matter if this were a question of principle and of conscience?

If some don't want to accept it, then they leave the SSPX. Big deal.

Well, it's only a big deal if the intent is to neutralize Tradition by dragging 95% of the current Traditional Catholic world en masse back into the Conciliar Church. But if even 25% of the SSPX were to split off and re-constitute under the banner of The Resistance, then it would just be a matter of time before it ramped back up to where it was before. So the threat to the Conciliar "authorities" would not have been neutralized and that gadfly of contradiction would remain to cause them trouble.

So the consecration by Bishop Williamson was providential in that regard; it makes The Resistance feel just a tad bit more like an actual concrete organization rather than an idea. As such, whoever all split off from SSPX after a formal agreement is proclaimed in essence have SOMEWHERE TO GO now. With bishops you have seminaries. With seminaries you have priests. With priests chapels. With priests and chapels faithful.

Unfortunately, the implications of this are rather disturbing ... that +Fellay is consciously working with Rome to neutralize Traditional Catholicism.

Sorry about the duplication, but what I was going to say is that I think this is a great post and I agree with nearly all of it, but even though we may be angry and frustrated with +Fellay it is still dangerous to be judging his motives.

That being said, it was a sad day for the Society when they decided to ignore ABL's precept never to put a bishop as superior. I wondered about it at the time, but now the sense of it has become obvious.

Stubborn · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2015, 03:25:34 PM »

Quote from: Bellator Dei

Quote from: Ladislaus
Basically it means that the leadership of the SSPX have already agreed in principle to the terms of a reconciliation.

What's holding things back are "internal problems".

What kinds of internal problems would hold back a full public agreement and why?

I believe that the answer implies that this entire procedure is a very deliberate and conscious attempt by Rome and also +Fellay to neutralize the Traditional movement.

I agree. I think that the deal with the Romans is already done.

Yes, the deal is done, their "Communique" demonstrated this, it's a matter of when they make it official, no longer a question of "if".

Matto · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2015, 03:28:58 PM »

If I was in charge of Rome with their evil intentions I would make a deal and soon after sell off all the SSPX property, close the seminaries and send all the priests of the SSPX to Madagascar.

1st Mansion Tenant · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2015, 04:03:27 PM »

Quote from: Matto

If I was in charge of Rome with their evil intentions I would make a deal and soon after sell off all the SSPX property, close the seminaries and send all the priests of the SSPX to Madagascar.

Since I can't bring myself to believe that a man in his position is that dumb or naive, I guess it means +Fellay is okay with that scenario.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2015, 04:07:22 PM »

Quote from: Matto

If I was in charge of Rome with their evil intentions I would make a deal and soon after sell off all the SSPX property, close the seminaries and send all the priests of the SSPX to Madagascar.

Not necessary. If done too abruptly, people could still bolt. You just gradually put them to sleep and boil the frog. Within a decade, any doctrinal basis for the SSPX will just be a distant memory; let them have their smells and their bells too. Within two years, they'll have no teeth left, will not oppose anything, and they'll be neutralized and castrated. They'll be no more potent an enemy of the doctrinal errors of Vatican II than the FSSP is today. They'll have been assimilated.

And then the next generation will be welcoming the liturgical clowns.

JPaul · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2015, 08:28:52 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Matto
If I was in charge of Rome with their evil intentions I would make a deal and soon after sell off all the SSPX property, close the seminaries and send all the priests of the SSPX to Madagascar.

Not necessary. If done too abruptly, people could still bolt. You just gradually put them to sleep and boil the frog. Within a decade, any doctrinal basis for the SSPX will just be a distant memory; let them have their smells and their bells too. Within two years, they'll have no teeth left, will not oppose anything, and they'll be neutralized and castrated. They'll be no more potent an enemy of the doctrinal errors of Vatican II than the FSSP is today. They'll have been assimilated.

And then the next generation will be welcoming the liturgical clowns.

As they say in Ebayspeak, When the reserve number has been reached, the deal will be sealed, and the auction closed. (also known as "sufficient consensus")

Nadir · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2015, 09:10:50 PM »

Quote from: Matto

If I was in charge of Rome with their evil intentions I would make a deal and soon after sell off all the SSPX property, close the seminaries and send all the priests of the SSPX to Madagascar.

Why is it that people here have it in for Madagascar?

Sbyvl · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2015, 09:23:55 PM »

Quote from: Nadir

Quote from: Matto
If I was in charge of Rome with their evil intentions I would make a deal and soon after sell off all the SSPX property, close the seminaries and send all the priests of the SSPX to Madagascar.

Why is it that people here have it in for Madagascar?

I believe Madagascar was the place the Germans originally intended to send the Jєωs to in WWII, but "internal problems" prevented the plan's execution.