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Author Topic: "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.  (Read 13441 times)

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Offline Mea Culpa

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"Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2012, 03:26:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous

    An SSPX-J supporter friend of mine recently described the SSPX-Resistance priests as "zealots".


    ....and the Neo-SSPX are "sellouts".   :facepalm:


    Offline Incredulous

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #16 on: December 13, 2012, 03:42:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mea Culpa
    Quote from: Incredulous

    An SSPX-J supporter friend of mine recently described the SSPX-Resistance priests as "zealots".


    ....and the Neo-SSPX are "sellouts".   :facepalm:


    For sure...

    If you read the latest TIA article, Fr. Ortiz, on the new SSPX Hermeneutics...
    TIA


    .... then consider that Msgr. Fellay hired a zionist lawyer who manages their 80 million Euro Jєωιѕн inheritance fund... its a trajedy so pathetic almost to be laughable.

    How long does Msgr. Fellay and Father Rostand think they can keep their Barnum & Bailey circus running ?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Novus Weirdo

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #17 on: December 13, 2012, 06:40:42 PM »
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  • How long does Msgr. Fellay and Father Rostand think they can keep their Barnum & Bailey circus running ?

    They'll keep flogging it until either everyone believes it's "The Greatest Show on Earth!" or until people quit because they're so burnt out on the same dozen+ clowns spilling out of the little Menzingen car.

    Offline Incredulous

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #18 on: December 13, 2012, 08:49:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Novus Weirdo
    How long does Msgr. Fellay and Father Rostand think they can keep their Barnum & Bailey circus running ?

    They'll keep flogging it until either everyone believes it's "The Greatest Show on Earth!" or until people quit because they're so burnt out on the same dozen+ clowns spilling out of the little Menzingen car.


    NW,

    Thank you for gracing this forum.

    I always enjoyed your avatar and posts on IA.

    The avatar reminded me of something out of Monty Python... but for the good, you're mocking the mockers of our Faith.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #19 on: December 14, 2012, 12:59:45 AM »
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  • Quote from: Machabees
    Adding to this saga...on the point of the cross bearer no longer being in the (bulletin) serving schedule, I was just given, via fax, the last 3-Post Falls bulletins showing/confirming (on the back of it), what the head M.C. had said to my friend about the cross bearer (C.B.) being cancelled from the serving schedule -"it is no longer written on the serving schedule for the last two Sundays".


    So let me get this straight:

    Three weeks ago  
    24th and Last Sunday After Pentecost (26th S.a.P.) .....  Cross Bearer

    Two weeks ago
    First Sunday of Advent ......................................... no Cross Bearer

    This past week
    Second Sunday of Advent ........................ ............ no Cross Bearer

    And no announcement, but questions are answered confirming the
    decision to omit CB is intentional, not a mistake.

     
    Someone in a position of "authority" was looking forward to making some
    changes this Advent season, that could apply to the whole year ahead,
    and perhaps beyond (it seems to me).  And now that the "new" 1962
    missal is nowhere to be seen, it appears that his hankering for change
    has taken the form of this unwarranted innovation.  At best it is a "trial
    balloon" to see if he can get away with it, and at worst it is a "test case"
    assigned by the Menzingen-denizens to foist progressiveness on an
    otherwise traditional community. IMHO.

    I suspect they are not counting on the faithful being vigilant.  

    This is why they hate the Internet.

    A recent sermon distributed on the Internet has:  the bishops are
    supposed to be the watchmen, and when the watchmen do not do
    their job, the next line of defense is the guard dogs.  It is a dog's
    duty to bark.  

    We are the dogs.


    In my experience, one of the features common to Novus Ordo parishes
    is that they no longer use the Crucifix Standard in processions.  

    This is a Novus Ordo innovation, do not be mistaken.  It is the kind of
    thing that will be commonplace if a 'deal' is signed.  So you need to
    decide if this is the kind of thing you'll tolerate, or, will you do something
    about it?   How about a protest in front of the Church?  Liberals get their
    voices heard that way, maybe it's worth a shot!  





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    Offline PAT317

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #20 on: December 14, 2012, 07:29:26 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat

    A recent sermon distributed on the Internet has:  the bishops are
    supposed to be the watchmen, and when the watchmen do not do
    their job, the next line of defense is the guard dogs.  It is a dog's
    duty to bark.  

    We are the dogs.


    In the sermon I'm thinking of, the priests (Fr. Chazal et. al.) are the dogs, and we are the sheep.  

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #21 on: December 14, 2012, 02:51:19 PM »
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  • Take note of Fr. Pfeiffer's sermon for 2nd Sunday of Advent at Post Falls:

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=21975#p3

    In this sermon, he talks about the cross-bearer to be discontinued,
    in context of the larger meaning of all the little changes like this
    that are going on in the SSPX..

    It's a different sermon than the one in Denver on their main site,

    but it is very similar.  Both given the same day, apparently.  





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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #22 on: December 16, 2012, 01:00:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat


    Take note of Fr. Pfeiffer's sermon for 2nd Sunday of Advent at Post Falls:

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=21975#p3

    In this sermon, he talks about the cross-bearer to be discontinued,
    in context of the larger meaning of all the little changes like this
    that are going on in the SSPX..

    It's a different sermon than the one in Denver on their main site,

    but it is very similar.  Both given the same day, apparently.  




    FWIW - if you've already heard the VLC media player sermon for Dec. 9th
    that you download from the site inthissignyoushallconquer.com then you
    should not think there is a mistake, because Fr. P. does not mention the
    cross-bearer problem in that sermon.  He only mentions it in the Post
    Falls ID sermon for the same day
    , and that one is only available on
    YouTube so far, linked in the OP of the thread for which the above link
    takes you to  one of the posts.  Go to that thread and go back to the first
    post to get the link for the sermon with the cross-bearer dishonorable
    mention.



    Link for Post Falls ID sermon


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    Offline Machabees

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #23 on: December 27, 2012, 04:38:44 PM »
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  • Here is an update on the Post falls –cross bearer (crucifix) being removed from the sanctuary.

    I just spoke to someone who lives there and attends that chapel.  He said:

    •   Since Dec. 2, except for Christmas day, there has not been a cross bearer in any of the (normal) Sunday processions they regularly have.
    •   That the Prior, Fr. Vassal, is continuing his stance...amongst opposition.
    •   That a number of people have written letters to him…still awaiting a response.

    Didn’t the Vat. II, New Order Church, also get rid of the crucifix -the standard of Christ- from the sanctuary, and from the mind’s eye of the faithful…?

    Offline stgobnait

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    « Reply #24 on: December 27, 2012, 04:49:53 PM »
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  • there is no sanctuary in the novus ordo... what need of a crucifix....

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #25 on: December 29, 2012, 07:01:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: Machabees
    Here is an update on the Post falls –cross bearer (crucifix) being removed from the sanctuary.

    I just spoke to someone who lives there and attends that chapel.  He said:

    •   Since Dec. 2, except for Christmas day, there has not been a cross bearer in any of the (normal) Sunday processions they regularly have.
    •   That the Prior, Fr. Vassal, is continuing his stance...amongst opposition.
    •   That a number of people have written letters to him…still awaiting a response.

    Didn’t the Vat. II, New Order Church, also get rid of the crucifix -the standard of Christ- from the sanctuary, and from the mind’s eye of the faithful…?




    I mentioned this issue to a friend and suggested that having parishioners
    gather in front of the Church before Mass, using a procession with a
    cross-bearer in front of protesters carrying signs might get the Prior to
    re-consider his "stance."  My friend told me that "Mother Theresa was
    opposed to participation in protests." Now, holding a Rosary rally might be
    acceptable.  

    This is a great example of the kind of problems that will become every
    day problems once the 'deal' is done.  Can you imagine a year down the
    road, someone saying, "Man, can you believe it?  When we were told
    that the cross-bearer would be discontinued, we thought we were
    having problems then!  If only we could have known what was coming
    down the pike!"

    It seems to me that Fr. Vassal needs something more than gentle
    "prodding" from the real men in the congregation.  Keep in mind, he was
    probably put up to this by Fr. Rostand, to become a test case.  They're
    trying to get ready to make a 'deal' with Rome, bottom line.  




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    Offline Machabees

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    « Reply #26 on: December 29, 2012, 11:09:14 AM »
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  • Quote
    It seems to me that Fr. Vassal needs something more than gentle
    "prodding" from the real men in the congregation
    .  Keep in mind, he was
    probably put up to this by Fr. Rostand, to become a test case.  They're
    trying to get ready to make a 'deal' with Rome, bottom line.  


    The good news is, Post Falls already has more "prodding" going on in the works.  My friend did mentioned that he will let me know of the out comes...  There are many who are fighting this beastly decision.

    Remember... No Prior or priest, can make any liturgical changes without permission coming from the top.[/b]

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #27 on: December 29, 2012, 11:46:25 AM »
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  • In a more general sense, the laity are being forced into a kind of religious
    persecution
    by the clerics of the SSPX, for this situation of having to beg
    their pastors to remain faithful to tradition and not succuмb to the
    unclean spirit of Vatican II is something that is an inversion itself of the
    proper order
    of things.  For it is not the place of the subjects to form the
    superiors.
    Yet, you may notice that this is precisely what the Menzingen-
    denizens would have us anticipate in the 'deal' they propose would take
    place with Modernist Rome.  It is not the place of the SSPX operating
    from under the authority of the local bishops and subject to them, to
    effect any "conversion" of the Roman apostates from the "inside out."  That
    would not happen, but rather quite the opposite would take place.

    It is up to us to learn these principles of reality and keep them in mind,
    such that when we hear things contrary to this in the Sunday sermons,
    we will know what we are hearing is not in harmony with objective truth,
    and therefore is not of God.
     The writing is on the wall.  

    Bishop Williamson addresses this topic in the recent conference Q&A after
    the confirmations in Toronto December 15th, the Octave Day of the
    Immaculate Conception.
     

    Our Lord said: "Watch ye and pray" (Matt. xxvi. 41).  Our first duty is to
    watch.  And while we watch, we should have our wits about us, so as to
    take notice of irregularities, such as the cross-bearer missing in the
    procession, which is an objective departure from the tradition which has
    been handed
    down to us, the tradition we have received...

                    TRADIDI QUOD ET ACCEPI



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    Offline OHCA

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    « Reply #28 on: December 29, 2012, 12:41:49 PM »
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  • Great post Neil Obstat.  You are absolutely correct that the SSPX would not change modernist Rome and the conciliar church, but would itself be assimilated.  Rather than "beg" priests to do the right thing, I propose that it would be more effective to take stronger actions such as refusing to financially contribute and public protest.

    Why would the SSPX laity go along with being assimilated into modernist Rome?  Why would it be any more acceptable now than 50 years ago?  Is modernist Rome just ahead of its time rather than wrong?  I think not!!  The laity needs to make it clear beyond any doubt that they won't be going along under any circuмstances.  Maybe that will make some of the priests bolder in doing the right thing who are on the fence.

    Why would the SSPX laity be so dumb to let the EXACT same thing happen to them today that happened to the conciliar church 45 years ago?  They saw this and evaded it back then?  Now fall to a nearly EXACT replica of the same trap?????

    Offline Machabees

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    « Reply #29 on: December 30, 2012, 08:08:07 PM »
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  • Update:

    This issue of removing the Cross-Bearer from the sanctuary is really BIG for the whole Catholic world.  Little by little the Devil is trying to kick out Jesus Christ.  As a baptized Catholic, I am not giving up without a fight!

    Remember the two “reasons” Fr. Vassal gave to remove the Cross-Bearer?  According to the Head M.C. (who by the way, as I am told, is the President of the St. Stephen’s Archconfraternity at that Chapel, and the one who does the serving schedule for both ICC and the Carmelites), he said:

    •   Fr. Vassal, the Prior, decided to remove the cross bearer because it was not in the “rubrics” to have one without a procession.
    •   And, that there was not enough room for the cross bearer in the sanctuary.

    If that lame excuse of Fr.Vassal doesn’t make your hair stand on end…!  

    The second one, “that there was not enough room for the cross bearer in the sanctuary”, is pitiful enough given to know that the Post Falls sanctuary is really BIG (see the other posts that describe this).  

    However, this first one of, “Fr. Vassal, the Prior, decided to remove the cross bearer because it was not in the “rubrics” to have one without a procession”, is a clever tactic.  Firstly, I do not know the specific “rubric” that he wants to state; however, if Fr. Vassal wants us to believe “his new change” to submit to a rubric, then objectively, if this is true, then the superiors all of these years, and in many different countries have got it wrong.  If so, then it stands to reason, objectively, it should be removed throughout the country in all chapels and seminaries…  I do not see it!  Therefore it is -subjective.  Of course we knew that!

    So in this case let’s describe what a liturgical Procession is.  Simply, a liturgical procession is any procession with Cleric(s) that originates “outside” of the sanctuary (the Holies’), which is divided by the communion rail, and proceeds/enters into the Sanctuary.

    So the update:

    •   As I have been told, there have been 7- High Masses in Post Falls since Dec. 2 up to today Dec. 30, 2012 (includes Immaculate Conception and Christmas).
    •   All of these High Masses did have processions that originated “outside” of the Sanctuary with the Cleric.  3- Of the High Mass processions started from the side door of the faithful’s area, then into the Sanctuary, through the opening in the middle of the Communion rail.  4- Of the High Mass processions started from the back of the Church, down the aisle, then into the Sanctuary, through the opening in the middle of the Communion rail.
    •   Therefore, all 7- of these High Mass processions originating “outside” of the Sanctuary with the Cleric, and preceded into the Sanctuary, are in definition -real Processions!!!
    •   So what High Masses had, and what High masses had not the Cross Bearer?  Fr. Vassal only allowed the Cross Bearer to be in the Christmas procession; which is only one of the four High Mass processions that originated from the back of the Church!  The other 6- High Mass processions were denied regardless where the procession had originated –the Cross bearer was KICKED OUT!  Also, the Thurifer was not allowed in all of these times to carry the thurible with incense; whereas, both the Cross-Bearer and the Thurifer were ALWAYS apart of the High Mass in the Post Falls Parish since its years of existence – until Fr. Vassal came!!!
    •   Additionally, as I found out, Fr. Vassal removed -KICKED OUT- the Cross Bearer from the Carmelite's High Masses also!!!

    Remember…  No Prior or priest, can make any liturgical changes without permission coming from the top.

    To KICK OUT the Cross-Bearer from the Sanctuary, coming from our own SSPX priests, is really a GROSS fight!  What would Archbishop Lefebvre say to you?  

    How are we to teach the Faith...without the STANDARD of the Cross?

    I was a boy when Vatican II was going on.  The Faith and (SSPX) Mass that I go to now, someone else fought for, and was given to me.  It is my turn now to fight these battles…to pass it on to the next generation.

    To all souls with good will, do we not fight for the Faith, and for our Lord and Lady, or do we cower in a corner under the cult of false obedience?  

    The Saints and Angles in heaven -always cry out to fight- the world, the flesh, and the Devil!!!

    This Cross-Bearer issue is not going down without a fight!

    There is a line in the sand…and my blood will be on it!!!