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Offline Machabees

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"Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
« on: December 12, 2012, 04:42:17 PM »
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  • It was told to me that in the SSPX, Post Falls Idaho chapel, the "Cross bearer" was removed from the liturgy during the High Mass; as with, it is no longer written on the serving schedule for the last two Sundays.

    Can anyone confirm anymore details of this?  

    To my understanding, from many SSPX priests over the years, the cross bearer (in the many reasons of its symbolism), is a "standard" of Christ...

    I do not know, nor have I ever seen, the cross bearer removed on a Sunday High Mass during the Advent season.

    This new "change" is quite serious (...), and very symbolic also, for the NSSPX to remove the STANDARD of Christ -the King- as it continues in its recent desires to make a covenant with the Conciliar apostate Rome.  

    This removal of the Cross bearer, as it was told to me, was all the more shocking because it was not even announced ahead of time from the pulpit, or any other mediums, as to any kind of "explanation".

    "So...go to sleep my little sheep", said the wolf.  "We will have breakfast together in the morning...go to sleep."

    Offline Machabees

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #1 on: December 12, 2012, 04:56:46 PM »
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  • To you my friends, in the name I have chosen, by the intersession of the Holy Machabees, the Faith and STANDARD of Christ will not fall on the floor without my bloody hands holding it it up...

    So be it!  Amen!



    Offline Telesphorus

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #2 on: December 12, 2012, 05:18:26 PM »
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  • Even as a Novus Ordo altar boy we always had a cross bearer at Sunday Mass.

    Offline Incredulous

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #3 on: December 12, 2012, 06:25:44 PM »
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  • Novus ordo alert!, Novus ordo alert!
    (Your getting us all excited)

    Did you ask the priest who celebrated the High Mass about it ?

    Sometimes when they are short on altar servers, they just don't fill the Cross Bearer position.

    Although the Cross Bearer doesn't do much during the Mass, he is technically the highest ranked server.  
    Ranked over the Master of Ceremonies because he bears Our Lord's Cross.





    In celebrating a High Mass, Acolytes 1 and 2 are essential.

    So, if they were short of people, for practical purposes, they can cut that position.

    Maybe your chapel needs more altars servers, who can soon serve Masses for priests of the SSPX-Reisistance?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline sspxbvm

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #4 on: December 12, 2012, 06:33:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: Machabees
    It was told to me that in the SSPX, Post Falls Idaho chapel, the "Cross bearer" was removed from the liturgy during the High Mass; as with, it is no longer written on the serving schedule for the last two Sundays.

    Can anyone confirm anymore details of this?  

    To my understanding, from many SSPX priests over the years, the cross bearer (in the many reasons of its symbolism), is a "standard" of Christ...

    I do not know, nor have I ever seen, the cross bearer removed on a Sunday High Mass during the Advent season.

    This new "change" is quite serious (...), and very symbolic also, for the NSSPX to remove the STANDARD of Christ -the King- as it continues in its recent desires to make a covenant with the Conciliar apostate Rome.  

    This removal of the Cross bearer, as it was told to me, was all the more shocking because it was not even announced ahead of time from the pulpit, or any other mediums, as to any kind of "explanation".

    "So...go to sleep my little sheep", said the wolf.  "We will have breakfast together in the morning...go to sleep."


    I wouldn't worry too much about hearsay. If and when it is certified then that would be a different story.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #5 on: December 12, 2012, 06:39:52 PM »
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  •  
    I would like to congratulate you, Macabees, for a very important observation.

    There is a diocese parish in the Valley here,  St. Bernardine of
    Sienna, (after whom is named San Bernardino CA) where they have
    resumed the use of the cross for processions after having
    abandoned it for a number of years.

    But the cross they use, or that is, try to use, is really stupid.  The
    worst part about it is that it is far too heavy to be practical.  It
    weighs about 40 pounds, and it is therefore too heavy for a
    younger boy to carry.  There is a real danger of him falling over by
    trying to keep it upright with all his strength.  

    But also, it is a "Jerusalem cross," with the extra cross pieces on
    the edges, and an overall square shape.  It doesn't look like a
    Roman Rite crucifix in any way.  As I recall, it has no corpus.  It seems
    to be "different just to be different," not for any reasonable purpose.  
    Just different.  Anything but traditional.  A lot of the neighbors
    surrounding this parish are Jewish, so it could be a sort of political
    move.

    You are correct that the standard of Christ the King is important.  
    No army would march into battle without the standard to lead the
    way, for it provides a focus point for all the troops to follow with
    confidence.  And the Church Militant is fighting a spiritual battle here
    on earth.

    Quote
    To my understanding, from many SSPX priests over the years, the cross bearer (in the many reasons of its symbolism), is a "standard" of Christ...

    I do not know, nor have I ever seen, the cross bearer removed on a Sunday High Mass during the Advent season.

    This new "change" is quite serious (...), and very symbolic also, for the NSSPX to remove the STANDARD of Christ -the King- as it continues in its recent desires to make a covenant with the Conciliar apostate Rome.

    This removal of the Cross bearer, as it was told to me, was all the more shocking because it was not even announced ahead of time from the pulpit, or any other mediums, as to any kind of "explanation".


    Can you imagine a priest trying to perform an exorcism without
    having a proper crucifix?  If it's not proper, the devil will attack the
    priest without mercy, on that basis.  If it is not very sturdy, the devil
    will cause it to be bent or even broken during the exorcism.  If it is
    not made of wood, or there are no nails through the wood holding
    the corpus on it, the devil will taunt the priest about those things,
    and the priest will not be able to make progress in the exorcism.

    It would seem to me that this is a sign that the NSSPX, or at least
    the chapel in Post Falls (Immaculate Conception?) is preparing to
    be unprepared
    for what is to come!



    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Machabees

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #6 on: December 12, 2012, 06:52:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous


    Novus ordo alert!, Novus ordo alert!
    (Your getting us all excited)

    Did you ask the priest who celebrated the High Mass about it ?

    Sometimes when they are short on altar servers, they just don't fill the Cross Bearer position.

    Although the Cross Bearer doesn't do much during the Mass, he is technically the highest ranked server.  
    Ranked over the Master of Ceremonies because he bears Our Lord's Cross.





    In celebrating a High Mass, Acolytes 1 and 2 are essential.

    So, if they were short of people, for practical purposes, they can cut that position.

    Maybe your chapel needs more altars servers, who can soon serve Masses for priests of the SSPX-Reisistance?


    Good question Incredulous about the possibility of "lack" of servers.

    It was told to me from this person that Post Falls is the second biggest chapel in the U.S. District with over 1,600 people.  In addition, He said it has a large BOYS SCHOOL with LOTS OF SERVERS, and even lots of men who can't "get in" to serve because of the abundance of servers.  

    Further as I was told, in their serving schedule (which he said is in their parish bulletin) they cut the position on purpose.  Two weeks in a row...and his boy is in their group of serves which he himself confirmed this!  As with, he said, that it was confirmed by their Head M.C. (who didn't agree with it), that it is not on the serving schedule at all- gone!  No typo!  No mistake!  

    Offline Incredulous

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #7 on: December 12, 2012, 07:18:27 PM »
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  • Yikes!...

    Novus ordo alert... Novus ordo alert!

    Suggest you use the St. Stephen's ArchConfraternity book of server rubrics and call a chapel meeting.  

    However, for Mass, there are rubrics where the Chapel pastor has authority to make the call. i.e, the bell rung at the end of the end of the Canon, the Minor Elevation, is in the French rubrics, but the pastor can allow it.

    Not sure about ditching the Cross Bearer?
    It sure doesn't sound right.


    Sancta Missa
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Machabees

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #8 on: December 12, 2012, 08:43:48 PM »
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  • I just got off the phone with another friend, who lives there, and I talked to him about this new event.  

    He said, that he heard a lot about it from others and was concerned himself; and he had called the M.C.  He said, according to the M.C., "father (Fr. Vassal the Prior) decided to remove the cross bearer because 'it was not in the rubrics' to have one without a procession." And, "that there was not enough room for the cross bearer in the sanctuary."  

    My friend followed to say, that he thought that that was pretty lame for the fact that in his 20+ years being there, there had ALWAYS been a cross bearer in all of the Sunday Masses with and without a procession -it was their norm that everyone knew and loved.  

    Further he said, he also finds it more odd with the statement of the Prior (according to the M.C.), that "there was not enough room in the sanctuary for the cross bearer".  He elaborated to say, that the chapel is HUGE with a very big (I think he said 3-step) sanctuary!  So big that they have many Solemn High Masses and Pontifical Masses with the Bishop's throne in it, with all of the pomp and servers, including the cross bearer with plenty of room in between.  Including any visiting seminarians and priests who want to sit in the sanctuary (...).  In addition to, 6-torch bearers all of the time during those Masses, as within the High mass every Sunday!

    He finished to say, no other Prior or District Superior, in all of those years have ever come out and say "it is not in the Rubrics..." and squash the "cross bearer"; and, if it is "not in the rubrics" as the Prior would have it, then why isn't the cross bearer gone in all the other SSPX Chapels...?

    (I smell liberalism entering in...under the appearance of "law".)  

    How are we to teach the Faith...without the STANDARD of the Cross?

    Wow...

    Offline Machabees

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #9 on: December 12, 2012, 09:36:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: sspxbvm

    I wouldn't worry too much about hearsay. If and when it is certified then that would be a different story.


    This is not a fun post to write about -the crucifix being kicked out of the sanctuary...

    Sspxbvm, I knew this information was a "fact" and NOT a "hearsay".  The question is, how much more information is out there on this, and who else knows something more on it?  

    As Fr. Chazal said in one of his sermons (to paraphrase): If everyone depended on Menzingen in what they "handed down", then no one will understand what is going on.  It is in all of the small pieces that come together, like a puzzle, that one can now "see" the picture.  So this is a "piece" of information that I am adding.

    For future reference.  I do not believe, nor Post, anything unless it is a confirmed fact.

    Instaurare omnia in Christo...
    (To restore all things in Christ...)

    Offline Machabees

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 11:09:14 PM »
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  • Adding to this saga...on the point of the cross bearer no longer being in the (bulletin) serving schedule, I was just given, via fax, the last 3-Post Falls bulletins showing/confirming (on the back of it), what the head M.C. had said to my friend about the cross bearer (C.B.) being cancelled from the serving schedule -"it is no longer written on the serving schedule for the last two Sundays".


    Offline Incredulous

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 11:24:38 PM »
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  • Hmm... what's the background on your SSPX priest ?

    If he a "reformed" Novus ordo cleric?

    We have an ex Novus ordo priest who didn't give a Latin or an English absolution durig the Sacrament of Confession. I think the news got back to his superior and only then he started giving us absolutions.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline ultrarigorist

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #12 on: December 13, 2012, 08:06:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous
    Hmm... what's the background on your SSPX priest ?

    If he a "reformed" Novus ordo cleric?

    We have an ex Novus ordo priest who didn't give a Latin or an English absolution durig the Sacrament of Confession. I think the news got back to his superior and only then he started giving us absolutions.

     :shocked:

    Offline Elizabeth

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #13 on: December 13, 2012, 08:55:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous
    Hmm... what's the background on your SSPX priest ?

    If he a "reformed" Novus ordo cleric?

    We have an ex Novus ordo priest who didn't give a Latin or an English absolution durig the Sacrament of Confession. I think the news got back to his superior and only then he started giving us absolutions.


    I know of a well-respected SSPX priest who is strongly opposed to this practice of using Novus Ordo priest-converts.  

    There have ben some spectacular duds.

    Offline Incredulous

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    "Cross bearer" removed in SSPX Post Falls liturgy.
    « Reply #14 on: December 13, 2012, 01:20:04 PM »
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  • Yes, we can't judge their intentions, but it is natural for us to be "on guard", as the French swordsman say.

    We've been exposed to the Karl Rahner infection, to different degrees.

    An SSPX-J supporter friend of mine recently described the SSPX-Resistance priests as "zealots".

    Give me a zealous trad priest anyday.  

    They are the ones who will lead us to Heaven.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

     

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