Author Topic: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics  (Read 1147 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Maria Auxiliadora

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1368
  • Reputation: +1322/-139
  • Gender: Female
"Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
« on: March 05, 2018, 09:25:07 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The information on Gloria TV is wrong, the new "Ad Experimentum" Indult for is for the pre Bugnini Holy Week rubrics, so I'll copy my post from another thread.


    Quote
    Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora on Yesterday at 10:46:49 PM

    Now, since the FSSP and other indult communities have given up the Ecclesiastical Traditions by accepting  to be regulated by Summorum Pontificum, they have proudly accepted from the Ecclesia Dei Commission an "Ad Experimentum" 3 years indult to offer the pre Bugnini Holy Week Ceremonies except, they have to use the 2007 BXVI Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews. Each community has to request independently, 25+ FSSP chapels and some Benedictines in France have requested it so far. The list is growing. Secretum Meum Mihi blog has updates.

    They owe their beloved indult not to the Modernists or to their own efforts but to Catholics who have fought for our Traditions for the last 50 years and to ABL who preserved the priesthood at the price of "excommunication", but they will never admit that.

    They are too ignorant to realize the harm they do to the Church by accepting this indult. By accepting it they are helping Francis in (trying to) reduce the Ecclesiastical Traditions to an INDULT. What are the Ecclesiastical Traditions to them anyway? Except a mean to appear more "traditional" and perhaps emptying some SSPX or traditional independent chapels' pews if convenient for some who drive a long distance while literally bending the knee to the Jews either in the 1962 rubrics or in this indult. Little they know that if it were not for independent chapels (and old SSPX) their indult would have disappeared. They have become an useful tool for the Modernists.

    Secretum Meum Mihi




    http://ststanparish.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Bulletin-02.18.2018.pdf#page=2
    http://www.msb-lgf.org/uploads/4/6/9/0/4690473/monast%C3%A8re_saint-beno%C3%AEt_newsletter_lent_2018.pdf#page=4

    The Benedictines in France are a notorious "reform of the reform"-"Hybrid Missal" Community.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3065
    • Reputation: +1689/-980
    • Gender: Male
    Re: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
    « Reply #1 on: March 05, 2018, 09:42:43 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    This is what it says on their bulletin: Holy Week: The Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei has granted to the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter the use of the rites of Holy Week prior to the reforms of 1951-1955. Our parish has been selected as one of the apostolates to use this permission. Over the next several weeks, we will examine some of the differences in a series of bulletin pieces.  
    The Holy Week changes of Bugnini under Pius XII have always been a painful reminder every year, since I have a 1946 missal and I have all the omissions they made marked. It clearly shows how the Novus Ordo changes started before Vatican II. There are changes practically every year from there on. I have a 1958 missal and even it is different than the 1955 and the 1962.

    The SSPX will ask for this indult too, I guarantee it. They are no different anymore than the Fraternity of St. Peter.

    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3065
    • Reputation: +1689/-980
    • Gender: Male
    Re: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
    « Reply #2 on: March 05, 2018, 09:58:30 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'm surprised that the SSPX didn't get this Indult first and make a big deal out of it, like saying it is the result of the Rosary Crusade or something similar.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3065
    • Reputation: +1689/-980
    • Gender: Male
    Re: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
    « Reply #3 on: March 05, 2018, 10:06:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Regarding the prayers for the perfidious Jews, Catholics never genuflected at the prayers to the Jews till Bugnini changed that. Abbot Guerranger's Liturgical Year (1854) tells us the reason is that the Jews mocked and derided Our Lord by genuflecting to Him.

    In this new "indult", not only do they now genuflect to the Jews but they also changed the prayer to make it even more "ecumenical" to the Jews than Bugnini's was.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1368
    • Reputation: +1322/-139
    • Gender: Female
    Re: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
    « Reply #4 on: March 05, 2018, 10:35:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'm surprised that the SSPX didn't get this Indult first and make a big deal out of it, like saying it is the result of the Rosary Crusade or something similar.

    This indult is most likely an enticement for the SSPX. Since they are no different than the indult communities, if they don't ask for it, the FSSP will likely get some of their own people. It's ironic that the SSPX has tried in the past to recruit the FSSP faithful.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1368
    • Reputation: +1322/-139
    • Gender: Female
    Re: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
    « Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 12:48:22 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • So far in my area the FSSP is not using this indult in Baltimore or Harrisburg. Is this number of 25+ communities exaggerated?
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline josefamenendez

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 664
    • Reputation: +405/-40
    • Gender: Female
    Re: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
    « Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 07:51:54 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is a quote from "Rad Trad Thomist":

    'So we will be being faithful to Bugnini and the Vatican-approved Fraternity won't? I told you things were getting weird!
    I believe it was Fr. Carl Pulvermacher who said, "They will allow the traditional Mass when they run out of validly ordained priests." Is the Fraternity trying to draw from both the SSPX AND the CMRI?'

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3065
    • Reputation: +1689/-980
    • Gender: Male
    Re: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
    « Reply #7 on: March 07, 2018, 09:14:41 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is a quote from "Rad Trad Thomist":

    'So we will be being faithful to Bugnini and the Vatican-approved Fraternity won't? I told you things were getting weird!
    I believe it was Fr. Carl Pulvermacher who said, "They will allow the traditional Mass when they run out of validly ordained priests." Is the Fraternity trying to draw from both the SSPX AND the CMRI?'
    Yes, it was Fr. Carl Pulvermacher who said that , and with this addition to the equation it really looks like it is playing out exactly as he said. Good observation.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline ilpadrino

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 48
    • Reputation: +32/-2
    • Gender: Male
    Re: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
    « Reply #8 on: March 07, 2018, 09:43:42 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I doubt you will see the SSPX using the indult or asking for it. They have charted their course since 1981 with the "Declaration of Fidelity to the Positions of the SSPX": "Finally, I admit as being legitimate the liturgical reform of John XXIII. Hence I take all the  liturgical books from it to be Catholic: the Missal, the Breviary, etc.; and I bind myself to make  exclusive use of them according to their calendar and rubrics, in particular for the celebration of  Mass and for the recitation in common of the Breviary." (emphasis added by me)

    And it would seem logical that those of the Resistance who think themselves to be carrying the position of Archbishop Lefebvre would keep to this.

    Offline Franciscan Solitary

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 264
    • Reputation: +163/-129
    • Gender: Male
    Re: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
    « Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 02:34:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I doubt you will see the SSPX using the indult or asking for it. They have charted their course since 1981 with the "Declaration of Fidelity to the Positions of the SSPX": "Finally, I admit as being legitimate the liturgical reform of John XXIII. Hence I take all the  liturgical books from it to be Catholic: the Missal, the Breviary, etc.; and I bind myself to make  exclusive use of them according to their calendar and rubrics, in particular for the celebration of  Mass and for the recitation in common of the Breviary." (emphasis added by me)

    And it would seem logical that those of the Resistance who think themselves to be carrying the position of Archbishop Lefebvre would keep to this.

    It would seem logical, if only logic could compete with the shameful Jansenist mind-set that predominates on the Traditionalist blogosphere.  This is not advanced rocket science here.  This is Jansenism vs. Catholicism 101.  Both the liturgical reforms of St. Pope Pius X and the saintly Pope Pius XII chose to emphasise the apocalyptic nature of Roman Catholic history and the apocalyptic integration of Catholic nobles and Catholic peasant-workers into the Pan-European Imperial Roman Folk of the End Times.  Their pontificates intentionally moved Holy Church away from the clericalism of the Ancien RĂ©gime towards a pro-active readiness for the Second Coming of Our Lord, which Catholic historic direction was led in the temporal realm by Napoleons I, II, III and IV, the good Kaiser Wilhelm II and the overwhelmingly Catholic Fortress Europe of the Axis Powers and then Nationalist Spain, Portugal, Ireland, South America, South Africa and so on.  Including the strictly Francoist or pro-Spanish Vatican City State of Popes Pius XII and John XXIII.
      
    Alas, Jansenist bloggers are not troubled by Catholic history or any objective realities of the human race.  That would require courage, which is exactly the virtue that the timid Neo-Jansenists of the blogosphere most lack.  How else explain the hopelessly un-Catholic contempt in which so many bloggers presume to hold the divinely-sanctioned Papal authority of Popes Pius X, Pius XII and John XXIII in their perfectly Roman Catholic liturgical reforms.  The religious evils of the present time only go back to the completely illegal approval of Vatican Two in 1965 and to that piece of apostate sewage, Paul VI, and not to the Catholics on the Chair of Peter before the horrible Gramscian Communist Montini.

    In other words, Archbishop Lefebvre was right!!!  The liturgical reform of Pope John XXIII, completely consistent with the liturgical reforms of Popes Pius X and XII before that liturgical perfection, is absolutely the exclusive liturgy for the Latin Rite to use since July 1962.  We ought to bind ourselves to make exclusive use of them, at least in so far as that is at all humanly possible for us.  At least that is what Roman Catholics would do.  (BTW, Bugnini was a typical bureaucratic robot:  He did good when directed by Popes Pius XII and John XXIII, and evil when directed by the evil apostate Paul VI.  Bugnini was a careerist chameleon who could never so much as tie his shoelaces without direction from his superiors.)

    Again, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre was right!!!!  Let us follow his wise and saintly example.  We should be faithful Papists, not gutless Neo-Jansenists.  The liturgy of the old S.S.P.X. is the best one.  The tormented (sort of-Pope) Benedict was right to follow the example of the good Archbishop in things liturgical in 2007, at least in commanding the liturgical reform of Pope John XXIII as the liturgy for exclusive use among the remnant little flock who can still be seriously described as Roman Catholics.

    We are Papists, not Jansenist backsliders.  Popes Pius X, Benedict XV, Pius XI, Pius XII, John XXIII and even the tragic and martyred John Paul I, were Roman Catholic Pontiffs.  We obey their decisions.  As for the apostates Paul VI, John Paul II and (horror of horrors) the Un-Francis Bergoglio, may the Devil take them, and the sooner the better.  

    (As for the hapless Benedict XVI, what an incomparable mess...  Perhaps the "Last Pope" of legend, evidently.)

         

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3065
    • Reputation: +1689/-980
    • Gender: Male
    Re: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
    « Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 02:48:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This Franciscan Solitary sure likes to listen to himself. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Franciscan Solitary

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 264
    • Reputation: +163/-129
    • Gender: Male
    Re: "Ad Experimentum" Indult is in fact for pre Bugnini Rubrics
    « Reply #11 on: March 07, 2018, 04:30:16 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This Franciscan Solitary sure likes to listen to himself.  

    No need to flatter a Franciscan quite so much, Mr. Tradhican.  Hope you are right.  What you describe is the most joyful ideal of the Franciscan Order.
      
    May it be so.


     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16