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Author Topic: Texas Masses?  (Read 4688 times)

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Offline flatearthtrads

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Texas Masses?
« on: April 25, 2020, 06:39:03 AM »
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  • Someone is looking for a Resistance Mass in west texas. Midland-Odessa area.

    St. Dominics chapel is a 5 hour drive.

    Does there happen to be anything closer for them, such as in New Mexico?

    Offline jacobusbadensis

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #1 on: September 12, 2025, 11:22:36 PM »
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  • There is currently not anything out in the Midland-Odessa area closer than St. Dominic.

    The only place closer that I am aware of that is good would be the SSPX Priory in El Paso.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #2 on: September 13, 2025, 12:31:46 AM »
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  • I haven't figured out why, but Texas is something of a wasteland when it comes to Traditional Catholic presence.

    Quote
    Texas has the second-largest population of any US state, with more than 30 million residents (9% of the US total) as of 2023. Moreover, Texas has a growth rate of 1.34% per year


    And yet look at how few Trad chapels *of any variety* there are in Texas.

    The state is very large and spread out as well. You'd think with the Mexican (a Catholic country) influence there would be more interest in Tradition and supporting Traditional chapels, if not for dogmatic or "the right" reasons, at least they should see it as a good place for Mass. (Keep in mind Latin is much closer to Spanish than to English).

    Nevertheless, it seems like Texas is particularly bad, at least per capita, when it comes to Traditional Catholic options.

    Take the SSPX for example. Austin, the capital of Texas, STILL gets Mass just twice a month -- in a hotel room! And San Antonio, the 10th largest city in the USA, has an old chapel from the 1970's that has been overcrowded since at least the early 2000s. They still don't have a school. The SSPX recently bought land outside S.A., and on paper the plan is to build a larger church there. But I'll believe it when I see it. They might never get their upgraded/new chapel.

    The HQ or "priory" is in Houston, which is right near the border with Louisiana. For most Texans, Houston might as well be in Louisiana, for how far away it is.

    Texas is the size of France, but not NEARLY as densely populated with Traditional Catholics as France is.
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #3 on: September 13, 2025, 01:08:22 AM »
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  • I haven't figured out why, but Texas is something of a wasteland when it comes to Traditional Catholic presence.


    And yet look at how few Trad chapels *of any variety* there are in Texas.

    The state is very large and spread out as well. You'd think with the Mexican (a Catholic country) influence there would be more interest in Tradition and supporting Traditional chapels, if not for dogmatic or "the right" reasons, at least they should see it as a good place for Mass. (Keep in mind Latin is much closer to Spanish than to English).

    Nevertheless, it seems like Texas is particularly bad, at least per capita, when it comes to Traditional Catholic options.

    Take the SSPX for example. Austin, the capital of Texas, STILL gets Mass just twice a month -- in a hotel room! And San Antonio, the 10th largest city in the USA, has an old chapel from the 1970's that has been overcrowded since at least the early 2000s. They still don't have a school. The SSPX recently bought land outside S.A., and on paper the plan is to build a larger church there. But I'll believe it when I see it. They might never get their upgraded/new chapel.

    The HQ or "priory" is in Houston, which is right near the border with Louisiana. For most Texans, Houston might as well be in Louisiana, for how far away it is.

    Texas is the size of France, but not NEARLY as densely populated with Traditional Catholics as France is.

    Well, Traditionalist is very weak in Italy too, for instance, and that is a country in which over 70% of the people identify themselves as Catholics.

    If we did not have the facts about Traditionalism, we would think that a places like Italy, Spain, Mexico and Brazil, for instance, would have a huge number of mass centers and Traditionalist people, but it simply does not happen like this.

    Just like Sedevacantism is very big in America. Why? I don't get it. Maybe because Americans are more inclined to radical positions? (Not necessarily a bad thing).

    I mean, there's a lot about Traditionalism and Sociology that we still don't understand.

    Based on what you see, are the Texans with Mexican roots interested in Catholicism? How many of them do you usually see at mass? I would bet that they are not the majority. They must be more like cultural Catholics.

    Offline IndultCat

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #4 on: September 13, 2025, 03:32:22 AM »
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  • Just like Sedevacantism is very big in America. Why? I don't get it. Maybe because Americans are more inclined to radical positions? (Not necessarily a bad thing).
    Sedevacantism is not at all a radical position. It is the ONLY logical position to take if a Catholic believes in ALL of the papal powers and then personally observes that ALL of the popes for the last 60+ years have DIRECTLY contradicted the papal teachings from ALL of the popes before them regarding faith and morals. 

    Any other position besides Sedevacantism is arrived at either through IGNORANCE (e.g. a Catholic who believes in all of the papal powers but does not know much Church history and, therefore, might not know the direct contradictions the modern popes have stated against all former popes regarding faith and morals) or through DENIAL (e.g. an R&R Catholic who knows the aforementioned contradictions yet still tries to mentally cope with the contradictions by making up a bunch of excuses to justify his/her completely illogical and untenable position). 


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #5 on: September 13, 2025, 03:15:11 PM »
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  • Sedevacantism is not at all a radical position. It is the ONLY logical position to take if a Catholic believes in ALL of the papal powers and then personally observes that ALL of the popes for the last 60+ years have DIRECTLY contradicted the papal teachings from ALL of the popes before them regarding faith and morals.

    Any other position besides Sedevacantism is arrived at either through IGNORANCE (e.g. a Catholic who believes in all of the papal powers but does not know much Church history and, therefore, might not know the direct contradictions the modern popes have stated against all former popes regarding faith and morals) or through DENIAL (e.g. an R&R Catholic who knows the aforementioned contradictions yet still tries to mentally cope with the contradictions by making up a bunch of excuses to justify his/her completely illogical and untenable position).

    Being radical is not always a bad thing. It is very good in some cases.

    Sedevacantism is somewhat a radical position in the sense that it does not try to see nuances and grey areas like Recognize and Resist, for instance. It simply says that the bad boys are not real Popes and that's it.

    You have the Conservatives on one extreme and the Sedevacantists on the other.

    Anyway, why is Sedevacantism so strong is America? I imagine that it has something to do with the culture and the mentality.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #6 on: September 13, 2025, 03:32:20 PM »
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  • It's not about where it fits in the Left vs Right sliding scale -- it's about individuality, rebellion, etc. Sedevacantism is a very American phenomenon. 

    Americans are highly individualistic. A "maverick" is in his native environment when he is in America.

    Whatever you want to say about Sedevacantism, positive or negative, you gotta admit -- it's a mostly American phenomenon. You just don't have the Sede pressure (or numerical strength) in countries outside America.
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    Offline IndultCat

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #7 on: September 13, 2025, 03:57:19 PM »
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  • Sedevacantism is somewhat a radical position in the sense that it does not try to see nuances and grey areas like Recognize and Resist, for instance. It simply says that the bad boys are not real Popes and that's it.
    Most, if not all, sedevacantists were at one time or another either directly involved in R&R groups or they dilligently researched the R&R position and discovered it is a completely illogical position for any Catholic to take if a Catholic believes in all of the papal powers.

    Sedevacantists have never simply said "the bad boys are not real popes." They have proven it over and over and over again for decades. Most of any Sede's research on the issue is very meticulous and precise. I have NEVER in my life heard of a Sede who simply refused to see the Church crisis from different angles or a Sede who just simply declared a false pope to be a false pope. Sedes ALWAYS not only state their position but also explain their reasoning for it in explicitly accurate and factual detail. I suggest you research Sedevacantism further before making anymore similar claims as you did in your previous posts.


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #8 on: September 13, 2025, 04:24:58 PM »
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  • Most, if not all, sedevacantists were at one time or another either directly involved in R&R groups or they dilligently researched the R&R position and discovered it is a completely illogical position for any Catholic to take if a Catholic believes in all of the papal powers.

    Sedevacantists have never simply said "the bad boys are not real popes." They have proven it over and over and over again for decades. Most of any Sede's research on the issue is very meticulous and precise. I have NEVER in my life heard of a Sede who simply refused to see the Church crisis from different angles or a Sede who just simply declared a false pope to be a false pope. Sedes ALWAYS not only state their position but also explain their reasoning for it in explicitly accurate and factual detail. I suggest you research Sedevacantism further before making anymore similar claims as you did in your previous posts.

    You seem offended by something I wrote before. I don't understand. I never said anything bad about Sedevacantism or its adherents.

    I am much more interested in the Sociology behind Traditionalism, and to understand why it grows in certain places and not in others, or why some places have more Sedevacantists while others have more "R&R".

    Offline Philip

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 06:48:40 AM »
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  • I am much more interested in the Sociology behind Traditionalism, and to understand why it grows in certain places and not in others, or why some places have more Sedevacantists while others have more "R&R".
    I think you have a valid point G.B.  The countries in Western Europe that used to be the most Catholic Ireland, Italy & Portugal have relatively weak traditional movements. Although Ireland was, almost, 100% Catholic with high rates of Mass attendance (even after the SVC) until recent times there are fewer traditional Masses (not getting into the debate of which are valid or otherwise) in Ireland than in England.

    France has a very strong traditional movement yet until the 19thC many dioceses did not follow the Roman rite but neo-Gallican variants such as the rite of Lyon etc.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 08:19:02 AM »
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  • I think you have a valid point G.B.  The countries in Western Europe that used to be the most Catholic Ireland, Italy & Portugal have relatively weak traditional movements. Although Ireland was, almost, 100% Catholic with high rates of Mass attendance (even after the SVC) until recent times there are fewer traditional Masses (not getting into the debate of which are valid or otherwise) in Ireland than in England.

    France has a very strong traditional movement yet until the 19thC many dioceses did not follow the Roman rite but neo-Gallican variants such as the rite of Lyon etc.

    I have to think that France, as was noted upthread about the US, has a "maverick" streak of its own, or to put a finer point on it, the French don't just take someone's word for something, it has to make sense, it has to be justified intellectually and logically.  Blind acceptance of ideas is something the French just don't do.

    Public intellectuals occupy a prominent and honored place in French culture and society, and the French love to hear things analyzed and discussed to death.  OTOH, in North America, pretty much all we have is Jordan Peterson, Noam Chomsky, and Camille Paglia.  William F Buckley Jr and Gore Vidal would also have qualified as such while they were living.  (If you've never seen their televised donnybrooks, do yourself a favor and check them out on YouTube.  They're a hoot!)


    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 01:05:01 PM »
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  • Sedevacantism started strong in Mexico right after the end of the Council. Many older priests who opposed the changes were kicked out of their parishes and continued their ministery privately. Most of them passed away in the 70's. In those years there was no internet, no way for them to know what was going on in Rome, all newspapers and tv supporting the new ideas, socialism and comunism taught in schools, etc. Catechism was taught in private schools that were forced to change. After all "father said so", he cannot be wrong. Blind obedience was common. Without communication means and who to trust, specially in the countryside, these older priest stayed on their own until they passed. Some of the faithfuls turned to the SSPX when they stablished the first missions in the 80's. Nevertheless, currently sedevacantism is stronger in numbers. There's a couple of seminaries founded by bishops descendent from the Thuc line.

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 08:12:50 PM »
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  • I think you have a valid point G.B.  The countries in Western Europe that used to be the most Catholic Ireland, Italy & Portugal have relatively weak traditional movements. Although Ireland was, almost, 100% Catholic with high rates of Mass attendance (even after the SVC) until recent times there are fewer traditional Masses (not getting into the debate of which are valid or otherwise) in Ireland than in England.

    France has a very strong traditional movement yet until the 19thC many dioceses did not follow the Roman rite but neo-Gallican variants such as the rite of Lyon etc.

    Exactly. But I really don't understand why. The fact that Abp. Lefebvre was French might have something to do with the good situation in France, but I am clueless about the others.

    As far as I know, those "Western liturgical rites" used in France were very close to the Roman rite, with only small differences. Were they still in use until the 1960s?

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Texas Masses?
    « Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 08:18:38 PM »
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  • Sedevacantism started strong in Mexico right after the end of the Council. Many older priests who opposed the changes were kicked out of their parishes and continued their ministery privately. Most of them passed away in the 70's. In those years there was no internet, no way for them to know what was going on in Rome, all newspapers and tv supporting the new ideas, socialism and comunism taught in schools, etc. Catechism was taught in private schools that were forced to change. After all "father said so", he cannot be wrong. Blind obedience was common. Without communication means and who to trust, specially in the countryside, these older priest stayed on their own until they passed. Some of the faithfuls turned to the SSPX when they stablished the first missions in the 80's. Nevertheless, currently sedevacantism is stronger in numbers. There's a couple of seminaries founded by bishops descendent from the Thuc line.

    Bp. Carmona is probably the most well-known Mexican Traditionalist cleric. He was important outside of Mexico too, as far as I know.

    I have heard about Sociedad Sacerdotal Trento, a Sedevacantist group. How big are they currently? Are there other groups?

    I know that Bp. Da Silva went to work in Mexico. His apostolate is quite erratic, sadly. He has been doing quite a messy job in Brazil. I hope that he did not the same in Mexico.