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Author Topic: Starting a Mass Centre  (Read 49885 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Starting a Mass Centre
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2023, 08:26:34 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on December 14, 2022, 07:59:06 AM

The BC goes on....
I look at it like this; if Fr. Pfeiffer's Mass is the only one available, my first inclination is to go, period. I must discern for myself whether or not to risk sinning by not going for whatever reason. That's how I look at it - whether it's Fr. P or some other nefarious priest. Unfortunately, the catechism does not take today's crisis into account as far as what is a "serious reason." We're pretty much on our own for that.

This kind of thinking is why so many Catholics went along with Vatican II and didn't leave, to join the Traditional Movement. Their thinking was, "It's still the Mass. The Mass is the Mass. We are commanded to attend Mass. What else are we going to do?" So they took their family every week to the Novus Ordo Missae -- and the rest is sad history. We know how that turned out. Years later, they're all Conciliar Catholics, de-facto protestants, feminist, on birth control, practically Communist in their thinking in every way. They don't believe in purgatory, they don't pray the Rosary, none of them fast or abstain anymore, etc.

You can't just ignore dangers like that.

What I'm saying is, if you only focus on "Mass" or "valid Mass", you can ignore some pretty SERIOUS "other stuff" which can totally annihilate your Faith and your spiritual life in a relatively short period of time.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Starting a Mass Centre
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2023, 09:39:49 AM »
As I said "I must discern for myself whether or not to risk sinning by not going for whatever reason." I am not trying to tell anyone else what to do.

And remember that in this case, we are talking about a certainly validly ordained priest and the True Mass - nothing whatsoever to do with NO priests and their jazz. I am saying that if I went at all, it would be because it's my one and only choice and that I would perhaps go to confession, receive Our Lord, and leave when it ends. IOW, regardless of his serious faults, I would use him for what I need, for the benefit my soul and that's it, that's all of it.  It's not like I'm endorsing conversing with him. I am conditionally endorsing using him for our soul's needs *if that's all you have available*.

Also, I was raised to never look at whether the NO "mass" was valid or not because it is neither valid nor invalid, what it is for sure is evil.  The consecration within the NO "mass" might be valid or invalid, no one knows for sure, but I avoid the NO because regardless of the question of validity of it's consecration, the "mass" or service itself is evil, and it is that service itself that brings with it the loss of faith. 

As I said, that's how " *I* look at it," that's how I've always looked at it. Deo Gratias that He saw fit that *I* no longer need to concern myself with any of that, but that's how I worked it when I did - and how I would work it if I need to again.
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Offline Yeti

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Re: Starting a Mass Centre
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2023, 04:55:11 PM »
Quote from: AnthonyPadua on May 20, 2023, 03:07:01 AM
Mine is that because of the crisis in the Church we are not obligated to go to mass, though If a valid mass with a valid priest who doesn't harm your faith is available and close enough, it's still good to go.
.

I really don't understand where this idea came from. People are not obliged to hear Mass anymore? Why not?

I look up in the 1917 code of canon law, and it looks like the relevant canons are as follows:


Quote
Canon 124815 (1983 CIC 1247)
On feast days of precept, Mass is to be heard; there is an abstinence from servile work, legal acts, and likewise, unless there is a special indult or legitimate customs provide otherwise, from public trade, shopping, and other public buying and selling.
Canon Law Digest
II: 358–60; III: 493; VI: 670–75; VII: 778–79; VIII: 868–69; IX: 722; X: 190

Canon 1249 (1983 CIC 1248)
The law of hearing the Sacred [rites] is satisfied wherever Mass is celebrated in a Catholic rite under the sky or in any church or public or semi-public oratory and in the little building of a private cemetery mentioned in Canon 1190, but not in other private oratories, unless this privilege has been granted by the Apostolic See.


It says there that people must attend Mass on a day of precept.
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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: Starting a Mass Centre
« Reply #58 on: May 22, 2023, 08:51:20 AM »
Quote from: Yeti on May 21, 2023, 04:55:11 PM
.

I really don't understand where this idea came from. People are not obliged to hear Mass anymore? Why not?

I look up in the 1917 code of canon law, and it looks like the relevant canons are as follows:



It says there that people must attend Mass on a day of precept.
What exactly are the options for attending mass? If only novus ordo is available? Or it an indult tlm? Or any tlm with a Novus ordo priest? Eastern Catholic?

And then there's also home aloners saying most traditional priests do not have jurisdiction. So would their mass even fulfill the requirement?
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