Author Topic: Resistance - at a chapel with a good priest? (Read 12746 times)

Matthew · « **Reply #15 on:** January 12, 2013, 10:50:08 AM »

Well, that is between you and God, and I'll keep my nose out of your business.

I can only speak for chapels like mine, where nothing is really different and there is no danger to the Faith.

Remember back in the Vatican II days, when people spoke of being angry during Mass because of what was going on in the Church, or what the priest preached in the sermon? You can't be expected to deal with that.

That might be the point at which you leave no matter what.

Each man has the responsibility for his own family. Just make sure you're honest with yourself (you can't fool God after all) and do your best to be properly informed.

Catechist99 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 12, 2013, 11:41:23 AM »

I agree on all points. I no longer support the SSPX financially. I support the diocese I live in and charitable organizations from time to time. Obviously I give support not only to the expelled priests but also to those who attend their Masses. I have given money to religious orders as well.

Even if we receive sacraments from an SSPX chapel we are not obligated to support that venture especially since it's remains in some quasi-schismatic state. Rather we can direct our money to our local parish or the diocese. We can even support missionary work (which the Resistance might fall under).

The SSPX is beginning to put financial pressure on the laity. This will backfire as there is already low level anxiety (even among the zombies) over financial management in Menzingen. Much like the revolt in the conciliar dioceses over giving money to pay for lawsuits, I forsee the same thing happening with the Society.

Also, at least in the town I live in, parents of academy students are being pressured to commit to monthly payment plans done ELECTRONICALLY to ensure timely payments of tuitions. And there was that recent begging letter sent out by the pastor because they can't make teacher payroll. It's sad.

If one really feels the need to give to the SSPX do it in ways that it cannot flow back to the District office:

Give food to the priests.
Purchase a product or service for the priests.
Find out if there is a local debt owed for a service and pay it off.
Make a utility payment for the chapel.
Make money orders (don't use personal checks) out to the priest personally.
Buy altar flowers and have them delivered.
Loan your car to a priest who doesn't have one.
Purchase airline tickets for a priest to go home for a visit.
Purchase new vestments or sacred vessels (if needed).

Support the chapel in non-cash ways and you can be assured that the District won't get their hands on it.

I also think it might be worth somebody's time to seek legal counsel about forcing a public audit of the District. This might reveal how much money was used to hire public relations and media consultants and other improper uses of funds.

This post is getting too long so I'm going to stop here.

Quote from: Matthew

Short answer: Yes.

The SSPX is going downhill fast, with many CONCRETE ACTIONS that have been completed, and new orientations that have been made manifest through the official organs and statements of the SSPX.

As such, the SSPX is no longer the go-to group for the Resistance in the broad sense -- the Traditional Movement which resists Modernism, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, Judaism, and Vatican II.

I think many would agree that their local SSPX chapel is far better than the Novus Ordo. It isn't dangerous to the Faith; the sermons might even be decent. But each and every SSPX priest is under the authority of Fr. Rostand, and must send a % of all collection proceeds up the chain to the District, and another % up the chain to SSPX Headquarters in Menzingen.

And if Fr. Rostand orders something, he has to carry it out.

The question is -- should we continue to support the SSPX, who has cast out Bishop Williamson and countless holy, faithful, courageous priests? I answer NO, we should not!

Just to be clear:
By "support" I mean financially. Attending their Masses is a different story. An SSPX Mass is valid AND not harmful to the Faith, so you can't sit at home on Sunday if there is an SSPX chapel reasonably close to your home.

I want OUT of the SSPX. If Bishop Williamson isn't welcome, than neither am I. I want my children to look up to real MEN like +Williamson and great priests like those in the Resistance. How will I ever expose my children to these holy clerics, if I continue to assist exclusively at my local SSPX chapel? It's not going to happen.

When it comes time for Confirmations, the SSPX will be sending any bishop EXCEPT Bishop Williamson. That, my friends, is NOT a good thing. How can you get a good +W sermon when +Fellay is the one doing confirmations? You can't.

It appears that many Catholics in the Resistance are in the same boat -- namely, they are NOT horrified by evil dripping from their SSPX priest -- because their SSPX priest is not evil and agrees with many points brought up by the Resistance. Some priests in this category even give decent sermons! At SSPX chapels with these priests, nothing has really "changed", or at least very little has.

In fact, it sounds like the average Catholic attending Resistance Masses has nothing personally against their SSPX priest. It's the SSPX they are opposing, and they want out from under it.

I fully agree. Under that aspect, I think it IS time to start Resistance chapels EVERYWHERE, NOW.

It's not about waiting for something bad to happen at your SSPX chapel. It's about getting a safety net ready BEFORE you need it. Remember, both priest AND Faithful need that comfort that they won't be out on the streets (or out in the cold without the Sacraments). Think of how much blackmailing power you take away from the bad guys, just by organizing an alternate chapel!

It's not your local SSPX priest that you're opposing. In fact, let him in on it! Recommend to your fellow Resistance parishioners that HE be supported directly with donations, rather than putting $$ in the general collection. Most places don't get Mass every week from the Resistance, and it's certainly NOT better to "stay home" than attend an SSPX Mass. An SSPX Mass is a valid TLM; it's not the Novus Ordo.

Give honor where honor is due; give support where support is due. Show your valued priests that you will support them DIRECTLY, WHEREVER they have to go to be faithful to their priesthood.

That way, they will be less likely to put up with Menzingen's ...crap... and they'll know who their friends are -- the faithful Catholics who wish to continue the legacy of the saintly Archbishop Lefebvre.

Matthew · « **Reply #17 on:** January 12, 2013, 12:09:43 PM »

I agree Catechist99, except for one thing that has me scratching my head:

Support the DIOCESE?

You have to be joking! Why would we support the Conciliar Church? Pardon my saying so, but however bad the Neo-SSPX is, the Conciliar Church is 1000x worse.

The SSPX suppresses the works of Fr. Fahey? Pope Benedict openly appears with Rabbis and prays at the Wailing Wall.

The SSPX is suppressing the works of Archbishop Lefebvre? In the Conciliar Church, the TLM is a faint memory that no one ever sees.

Many SSPX priests give mostly "pious" sermons on the virtues? In the Conciliar Church, the priests are still reading sappy e-mail forwards to the congregation and/or trying to be a comedian.

Some SSPX chapels are moving to the Dialogue Mass? In the Conciliar Church, they use the Novus Ordo Mass and the whole 9 yards -- handshake of peace, altar girls, female lectors, communion in the hand...

Krah has his hand in the financials of the SSPX? You don't want to know who has their hand in the financials of the Conciliar Church!

When I say "withdraw financial support from the SSPX organization" I advocate supporting the RESISTANCE -- not putting money into the Novus Ordo!

Talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire!

iAy caramba!

Catechist99 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 12, 2013, 12:49:10 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

I agree Catechist99, except for one thing that has me scratching my head:

Support the DIOCESE?

For the most part I agree. But there are exceptions. Not every diocese is inherently evil and there might be a particular ministry or program that can be individually supported. This would not apply across the board obviously. Some dioceses have very strong and active ministries for unwed mothers who otherwise might opt for abortion. That could be supported without giving money to the diocese itself. How about a meals on wheels for the homebound? Or giving money to buy school uniforms for Native Americans who attend a Catholic school? Many dioceses have prison outreach. BTW, when was the last time an inmate spoke to a real Catholic and not a NewChurchian?

Maybe I didn't articulate my meaning well or maybe I'm off my rocker. I guess I am reminded of Christ's command

Matthew 25:40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

I just feel moved to extend charity wherever it is needed. Father Pfeiffer teaches us that we will win souls to tradition not by our doctrinal arguments but by our charity and sanctity.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #19 on:** January 12, 2013, 03:33:11 PM »

The OP has a good premise, and a timely message. My first reaction was
"You could have posted this 9 months ago, just after the nefarious and
revolutionary General Chapter." And I still think that is the case, after
reading the whole thread.

It seems people in general are slow to act. "But there are exceptions."
(Cf. Cathechist99 post, below)

What happened in the Philippines when they got news of +Williamson's
exclusion from the GC? A large chunk of them dropped the SSPX like a
bad habit. No questions asked. And rightly so. It seems to me there is
something in the Catholic sense of the Filipino Faithful that a lot of the rest
of us are missing. Where does that come from? How is it they can have
the courage and fortitude of their convictions and we, many of us, can
even turn a blind eye to heresy and "support the local diocese?" (Cf.
Catechist99 post above)

Any organization (read: SSPX or whatever) that can be so improper as
to ILLEGITIMATELY exclude its most conservative if not outspoken bishop
from the internal affairs of said organization deserves NO SUPPORT.

Nada, zero, zilch.

Does that mean you can't attend their Masses? Well, no. It does not.

So the big problem in the mind of a Catholic is, how do you comply with the
5th precept of the Church, to contribute to the support of our pastors?

Catechist99 goes into this in some detail, in the post above to which
Matthew is replying in this post, below. Detail is good.

Quote from: Catechist99

Quote from: Matthew
I agree Catechist99, except for one thing that has me scratching my head:

Support the DIOCESE?

For the most part I agree. But there are exceptions. Not every diocese is inherently evil and there might be a particular ministry or program that can be individually supported. This would not apply across the board obviously. Some dioceses have very strong and active ministries for unwed mothers who otherwise might opt for abortion. That could be supported without giving money to the diocese itself. How about a meals on wheels for the homebound? Or giving money to buy school uniforms for Native Americans who attend a Catholic school? Many dioceses have prison outreach. BTW, when was the last time an inmate spoke to a real Catholic and not a NewChurchian?

Maybe I didn't articulate my meaning well or maybe I'm off my rocker. I guess I am reminded of Christ's command

Matthew 25:40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

I just feel moved to extend charity wherever it is needed. Father Pfeiffer teaches us that we will win souls to tradition not by our doctrinal arguments but by our charity and sanctity.

The necessity of supporting our pastors presumes our pastors are our
pastors and not wolves in the clothing of pastors. EEkk.. :shocked: Why
did Our Lord say "...in sheep's clothing" instead of "...in pastors' clothing?"

We need some posters with the Clothing of Pastors theme. But just try to
find a chapel that would display them! Ha - HA!

It seems to me that it's a weakness of man to just let someone else give
the answer to problems - like organizing a payment schedule for you. You
want, down deep, someone to tell you how much you ought to be
contributing to your pastors, don't you?

No? Well, if not, then you shouldn't have any problem setting up your own
payment schedule, as you see fit. And in so doing, you really ought to
draw a line through the term "local diocese."

Why? Well, because, Matthew gave a good, sample list in the post above.

He gave examples of the principle, that for the same reasons that any
so-called Traditional Catholic* would attend an SSPX parish regularly (that
is, before the Great Scandal Erupted!) and contribute there in the weekly
collection (that is, before the Great Scandal Erupted!), he would not now
attend OR contribute to the local diocese AFTER the Great Scandal Erupted.

In the days of slavery in this country, when the slaves were emancipated,
some of them chose to remain at their master's home, in many cases, if not
all, because it was their comfort zone. It was all they knew. The outside
world was too scary.

Fr. Pfeiffer touches on this topic of charity several times in the recent Family
Conference, held this past Octave of Christmas. At one point, he said:

Quote from: Fr. Pfeiffer

...We have to bring back an Apostolic spirit, number one... Because right now, we’re discovering, the majority of the people we’re dealing with in this fight... The majority are pretty much focused on themselves. We’ve got to stop that.

The majority of our people, who hold the truth, are focused on themselves. And that includes priests. In other words, “I want to stand firm in the truth, I want to stand firm against the errors, but as long as my priest, or my place is comfortable, no problem. If it’s not, I gotta think about it. I gotta weigh it."

That’s why ... we have to rip that out! It’s either the truth or it’s not. It’s either necessary or it’s not, and if you have no Mass, well then you have no Mass. First, it’s gotta be necessary to hold the truth, it’s gotta be necessary to condemn the errors, it’s gotta be necessary to take whatever consequences come from that...

But... we have to have the mentality: WE’RE CHARGING! And if you want to come along, fine, if you don’t, well, stay home. We’re charging. So, we... have a war going on, and it’s a GLOBAL WAR. And we have to have the heart to want to spread the faith everywhere. That’s the first condition...

Fr. Pfeiffer takes the discussion to a higher level.

You can go around with your head in the sand, spiritually, and just worry
about your own situation, which is a most natural thing to do, and
something that your relatives will expect of you, but is it what God expects
of you?

Everyone has to make his own choices, but I would caution very much
against being involved with the local diocese when it comes to giving
support. Volunteering and donating hard goods is one thing, but you
really should not be putting any money in the collection plate at a diocese
event, including but not limited to their so-called liturgy.

You can be involved, for example, with the prison ministry, but you know,
you don't have to be part of any organization to visit the prisoners. All
you have to do is show up at the prison and wait in line to see anyone
that the prison guards are willing to allow you to see. You don't have to
be a certified member of a prayer group to pray the Rosary in front of any
abortion killing center. Just show up and do it. They'll love to have you.
You don't need to be a registered parishioner to donate canned food to
the local Food Pantry or parish food drive. Just do it. But it will be up to
you to KEEP IT UP. Don't expect any organizer to tell you it's time to make
a contribution. Set up your own schedule.

"Fortify your homes." --a recent EC.

"A loose association of independent priests.." --a recent EC.

Whether we like it or not, the future is coming, and it might not be quite
as "comfortable" as we would like to have it.....................

*Essentially all Catholics are traditional. To the extent that one is not
traditional, also, one is neither Catholic. It is a line that is becoming more
and more vague lately. And the blurring of distinctions is the work of the
devil. It is the grey horse of the Apocalypse. Ambiguity is more pernicious
than open heresy.

Faber · « **Reply #20 on:** January 12, 2013, 06:00:44 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

There is no justification for sitting at home on Sunday, if you have an SSPX chapel nearby. Their Mass is valid, and there is no danger to the Faith that would justify staying at home. The Novus Ordo is a different story.

Why do you think so?

The superiors form the subjects - not the subjects the superiors.

This means that Menzingen forms you if you attend mass at an SSPX chapel. Menzingen has not signed a deal with Conciliar Rome yet but Menzingen wishes to sign a deal. They were not yet in bed with Conciliar Rome but they wish to be. It is FSSP-wannabe-Menzingen (or shorter: Rome) which forms you if you attend mass at an SSPX chapel.

It's not only the sermon, or what's missing in the sermon, but the whole environment which will have influence on you. And you will have comparatively next to no influence at all on the other folks there.

Also: If you think, that your Faith is strong, the Faith of others may not be. If you attend mass at an SSPX chapel, you may feed the impression that all is fine at the SSPX.

The SSPX has always recommended not to attend mass at FSSP or other ED chapels. Consequently it is wrong today to attend mass at their chapels.

Jerome · « **Reply #21 on:** January 12, 2013, 07:43:07 PM »

Quote from: Faber

Quote from: Matthew
There is no justification for sitting at home on Sunday, if you have an SSPX chapel nearby. Their Mass is valid, and there is no danger to the Faith that would justify staying at home. The Novus Ordo is a different story.

Why do you think so?

The superiors form the subjects - not the subjects the superiors.

This means that Menzingen forms you if you attend mass at an SSPX chapel. Menzingen has not signed a deal with Conciliar Rome yet but Menzingen wishes to sign a deal. They were not yet in bed with Conciliar Rome but they wish to be. It is FSSP-wannabe-Menzingen (or shorter: Rome) which forms you if you attend mass at an SSPX chapel.

It's not only the sermon, or what's missing in the sermon, but the whole environment which will have influence on you. And you will have comparatively next to no influence at all on the other folks there.

Also: If you think, that your Faith is strong, the Faith of others may not be. If you attend mass at an SSPX chapel, you may feed the impression that all is fine at the SSPX.

The SSPX has always recommended not to attend mass at FSSP or other ED chapels. Consequently it is wrong today to attend mass at their chapels.

Excellent points and post Faber!!

Even the good priests at SSPX chapels will have to subject themselves to Menzigen's plan sooner or later.
If anyone thinks that Bp. Fellay has given up his "mission to convert Rome", is fatally deceiving themselves. He thought that after 12 years of waiting, the time was right (with the elimination of all the "disobedient" priests/Bp. Williamson and "we must embrace the Holy Father" into sermons), but the faithful's reaction is what disrupted his plan.
So, now "the deals off".......(until we gently massage them into the mush of the neo-SSPX thinking) and in time, they won't notice any changes as it's going to be a slow & methodical spoon feeding campaign. The few that may or may not complain when they see these changes taking place will eventually be looked on as an "odd and insignificant bunch" as the majority will already have embraced the changes.

Most SSPXers that state "I haven't seen any changes yet, or when they actually move the altar, that's when I'm done, or when they use alter girls, or when they give communion in the hand etc..that's when I'm done...... like what Fr. Pfieffer says "they are just raising the bar" until they're actually participating in the N.O. mass.

With all the evidence that's stacked up against Bp. Fellay, and knowing of his intentions to join liberal Rome, it makes no sense to say you're in the Resistance, when you're actively participating in this downfall. What are you really resisting?

Incredulous · « **Reply #22 on:** January 13, 2013, 12:11:55 AM »

This SSPX-Resistance is a organic, grass-roots Catholic movement, like the Cristeros.

We have to support it anyway we can. There is no turning back.

Going to neoSSPX chapels for the Sacraments is a temporary fix, since Msgr. Fellay has stated he will forgoe a doctrinal agreement in lieu of a practical ageement with newRome.

How could we trust a man who hires a zionist and accepts Gutman/Rothchild inheritance funds, while sacking many holy priests and Bp. Williamson?

We have have to put our hearts into the SSPX-Resistance and fight!

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #23 on:** January 13, 2013, 07:35:08 AM »

Quote from: Faber

Quote from: Matthew
There is no justification for sitting at home on Sunday, if you have an SSPX chapel nearby. Their Mass is valid, and there is no danger to the Faith that would justify staying at home. The Novus Ordo is a different story.

Why do you think so?

The superiors form the subjects - not the subjects the superiors.

This means that Menzingen forms you if you attend mass at an SSPX chapel. Menzingen has not signed a deal with Conciliar Rome yet but Menzingen wishes to sign a deal. They were not yet in bed with Conciliar Rome but they wish to be. It is FSSP-wannabe-Menzingen (or shorter: Rome) which forms you if you attend mass at an SSPX chapel.

It's not only the sermon, or what's missing in the sermon, but the whole environment which will have influence on you. And you will have comparatively next to no influence at all on the other folks there.

Also: If you think, that your Faith is strong, the Faith of others may not be. If you attend mass at an SSPX chapel, you may feed the impression that all is fine at the SSPX.

The SSPX has always recommended not to attend mass at FSSP or other ED chapels. Consequently it is wrong today to attend mass at their chapels.

Faber-

You have been a long time trying to wean Catholics away from their SSPX chapels.

If there is no compromise at the particular chapel, there is no reason (or justification) to leave.

How can you be more resistance than the resistance?

Bishop Williamson, Fr Ringrose, and Fr Pfeiffer all contradict your contrived logic and position.

Do you accuse them of false doctrine?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #24 on:** January 13, 2013, 07:37:25 AM »

I think it depends on the individual priest. That being said, going to such a chapel can present a temptation towards compromise.

Ecclesia Militans · « **Reply #25 on:** January 13, 2013, 09:43:58 AM »

Quote from: Seraphim

How can you be more resistance than the resistance?

Bishop Williamson, Fr Ringrose, and Fr Pfeiffer all contradict your contrived logic and position.

Do you accuse them of false doctrine?

I know that Fr. Pfeiffer has stated that, objectively speaking, all priests of the SSPX need to jump ship now. This is because the principles outlined in the 2012 SSPX General Chapter Declaration and the corresponding Six Conditions are a danger to the Faith.

Ecclesia Militans · « **Reply #26 on:** January 13, 2013, 09:45:25 AM »

Quote from: Faber

Quote from: Matthew
There is no justification for sitting at home on Sunday, if you have an SSPX chapel nearby. Their Mass is valid, and there is no danger to the Faith that would justify staying at home. The Novus Ordo is a different story.

Why do you think so?

The superiors form the subjects - not the subjects the superiors.

This means that Menzingen forms you if you attend mass at an SSPX chapel. Menzingen has not signed a deal with Conciliar Rome yet but Menzingen wishes to sign a deal. They were not yet in bed with Conciliar Rome but they wish to be. It is FSSP-wannabe-Menzingen (or shorter: Rome) which forms you if you attend mass at an SSPX chapel.

It's not only the sermon, or what's missing in the sermon, but the whole environment which will have influence on you. And you will have comparatively next to no influence at all on the other folks there.

Also: If you think, that your Faith is strong, the Faith of others may not be. If you attend mass at an SSPX chapel, you may feed the impression that all is fine at the SSPX.

The SSPX has always recommended not to attend mass at FSSP or other ED chapels. Consequently it is wrong today to attend mass at their chapels.

I generally agree with your comments. However, what needs to be taken into account is the need of the indiviudal person.

Faber · « **Reply #27 on:** January 13, 2013, 10:01:47 AM »

Quote from: Seraphim

Bishop Williamson, Fr Ringrose, and Fr Pfeiffer all contradict your contrived logic and position.

Bp Williamson, on the contrary, uses the very same logic:

Quote from: EC 263

It follows that if the celebration of a Tridentine Mass is surrounded by circuмstances that threaten to undermine my faith, then depending on the gravity of the threat, I may not attend such a Mass. [...] If then Catholics were forbidden to attend Mass in Orthodox circuмstances, would not the same Church in her right mind forbid to attend a Tridentine Mass celebrated in Conciliar circuмstances?

Then what is meant by Conciliar circuмstances? The answer must be, any circuмstances which, over a shorter or longer period of time, are going to make me think that the Second Vatican Council was not an utter disaster for the Church.

Now, how grave is the threat? Bp Williamson and Fr Ringrose signal yellow light. A vigilant driver will choose to stop. In case you drive on, you're warned about the risk.

Bishop Williamson, Fr Ringrose, and Fr Pfeiffer do not recommend to attend Mass at an SSPX chapel. And they much less say that one has to attend Mass at an SSPX chapel to fulfill ones Sunday obligation in case there's no alternative.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #28 on:** January 13, 2013, 10:17:09 AM »

Quote from: Faber

Quote from: Seraphim
Bishop Williamson, Fr Ringrose, and Fr Pfeiffer all contradict your contrived logic and position.

Bp Williamson, on the contrary, uses the very same logic:

Quote from: EC 263
It follows that if the celebration of a Tridentine Mass is surrounded by circuмstances that threaten to undermine my faith, then depending on the gravity of the threat, I may not attend such a Mass. [...] If then Catholics were forbidden to attend Mass in Orthodox circuмstances, would not the same Church in her right mind forbid to attend a Tridentine Mass celebrated in Conciliar circuмstances?

Then what is meant by Conciliar circuмstances? The answer must be, any circuмstances which, over a shorter or longer period of time, are going to make me think that the Second Vatican Council was not an utter disaster for the Church.

Now, how grave is the threat? Bp Williamson and Fr Ringrose signal yellow light. A vigilant driver will choose to stop. In case you drive on, you're warned about the risk.

Bishop Williamson, Fr Ringrose, and Fr Pfeiffer do not recommend to attend Mass at an SSPX chapel. And they much less say that one has to attend Mass at an SSPX chapel to fulfill ones Sunday obligation in case there's no alternative.

1) EC 263 considers the case of Catholics attending an ICK or FSSP (ie., an indult) Mass, and is therefore off point.

2) We are talking about the permissibility of attending an SSPX Mass at a chapel in which nothing has changed.

3) The two situations are not even remotely close.

4) Therefore, you are misapplying the principles of Bishop Williamson to suit your agenda.

5) You have gone on record as claiming nobody can any longer attend an SSPX Mass, even if nothing has changed, and no error crept in.

6) Bishop Williamson, Fr Ringrose, and Fr Pfeiffer are all on record as NOT forbidding attendance at SSPX Masses in which no error has crept in, just in the last month.

6) Please produce quotes from them prohibiting SSPX Mass attendance at chapels in which no error has been introduced, and I will concede the point.

Faber · « **Reply #29 on:** January 13, 2013, 11:05:34 AM »

Quote from: Seraphim

Please produce quotes from them prohibiting SSPX Mass attendance at chapels in which no error has been introduced, and I will concede the point.

My point is not, that anybody should be prohibited to attend Mass at SSPX chapels, or that Bp Williamson has forbidden to attend Mass at SSPX chapels.

Also, the SPPX never prohibited to attend Mass at FSSP chapels.

The SSPX named good reasons not to attend Mass at FSSP chapels, and recommended to rather stay at home, where appropriate.

I don't claim that Bp Williamson or Frs Ringrose, Pfeiffer etc. have forbidden to attend Mass at SSPX chapels. But they are warning. They switched the traffic lights from green to yellow. So it's safe to stop attending Mass at SSPX chapels, and there is no need whatsoever to wait for the red light.

Quote from: Seraphim

EC 263 considers the case of Catholics attending an ICK or FSSP (ie., an indult) Mass, and is therefore off point.

That's not true. The criterion of Bp Williamson is not indult or not indult. Rather his criterion is, whether the celebration of a Tridentine Mass is surrounded by any circuмstances which, over a shorter or longer period of time, are going to make me think that the Second Vatican Council was not an utter disaster for the Church.