Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures  (Read 4333 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline St Ignatius

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1024
  • Reputation: +794/-158
  • Gender: Male
Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2018, 04:54:58 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: PG on February 21, 2018, 04:08:44 PM
    Life is more than the meat, and the body is more than the raiment.  If there is a beef, and in this case I think there is, then it is not limited or isolated to a few obvious things.  And, the church needs monasteries.  The church doesn't necessarily need contemplatives.  They are not always the same thing.  

    I'll have to respectfully disagree with this assertion, the contemplative religious is needed more now than ever... this taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia;



    And although of the two great commandments given by Christ (Matthew 22:37 sqq.) — love of God and love for our neighbor — the first is exemplified more markedly in contemplative orders, and the second in active orders, contemplatives must and do have in their hearts a strong and true love for others, but they realize thatlove in their deeds. The principal means contemplatives have of proving their love for others are prayer and penance. By prayer they draw down from Heaven on struggling and suffering humanity manifold graces, light, strength, courage and comfort, blessings for time and for eternity. By penance they strive to atone for the offenses ofsinful humanity, to appease God's wrath and ward off its direful effects, by giving vicarious satisfaction to the demands of His justice. Their lives of perpetual abnegation and privation, of hardship cheerfully endured, of self-inflicted suffering, joined to the sufferings of their Divine Master and Model help to repair the evil men do and obtain God'smercy for the evildoers. They plead and make reparation for all men. This twofold ministry carried on within the narrow precincts of a monasteryknows no other limits to its effects than the bounds of earth and the needs of mankind. Or rather that ministry extends further still its sphere of action, for the dead as well as the living benefit by it.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04329a.htm
    Logged

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10305
    • Reputation: +6215/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #16 on: February 21, 2018, 05:06:21 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • The first and oldest order of the Church was the contemplative Carmelites.  It's been prophecized that this order will last til the end of time, while others will not.  

    At her canonization, St Theresa the Little Flower was said to have been the greatest missionary of the 19th century and she never left her convent.

    Contemplatives and silent prayer are the foundation and life of the Church.  Without them, the rest of us are sunk.  
    Logged

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #17 on: February 21, 2018, 05:37:26 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 21, 2018, 05:06:21 PM
    The first and oldest order of the Church was the contemplative Carmelites.  It's been prophecized that this order will last til the end of time, while others will not.  

    At her canonization, St Theresa the Little Flower was said to have been the greatest missionary of the 19th century and she never left her convent.

    Contemplatives and silent prayer are the foundation and life of the Church.  Without them, the rest of us are sunk.  
    Similar to how I do not believe in the authenticity claim about the shroud, I do not believe the claim about carmelites being the oldest religious order.  As far as I am concerned, the desert monks, which were not always so ordered, are to be considered the original male religious orders.  And, I have no qualm about simply considering it manifested best in the Benedictine foundation.  And, the benedictine motto is ora et labora.  What labora are these women going to do at their mansion mountain?  Tradition had mary magdalen passing her last days praying and doing penance in a moist cave.  This new monastery seems to be employing drastically different means, while advertising the same ends.  I ask, how?
    I also really have to say, that every single catholic state in life is supposed to be conducive to contemplation.  If your vocation in life is not conducive to contemplation, then your vocation is not catholic.  They all differ depending on our state in life, but they are all to be conducive to contemplation.  Milking the cow for the family is conducive to contemplation.  Tending the garden is conducive to contemplation.  Hauling water up from the well(if western man still had wells) is conducive to contemplation.  Chanting the psalms is conducive to contemplation.  Attending mass on sunday is conducive to contemplation.  A mother wiping her babies bottom is conducive to contemplation for crying out loud.  My examples are wide and varied, but these are conducive to contemplation.  The key is understanding their place of importance in varying states of catholic life.  But, the keyword is none the less contemplation.  Tickling our chin while we sit looking up at the heavens with an open bible should not really be the image catholics decide to put in their dictionary next to the word contemplation.  And, neither should pulling ones hair out be either.  
    Logged
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline St Ignatius

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1024
    • Reputation: +794/-158
    • Gender: Male
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #18 on: February 21, 2018, 05:38:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 21, 2018, 05:06:21 PM
    The first and oldest order of the Church was the contemplative Carmelites.  It's been prophecized that this order will last til the end of time, while others will not.  

    I wasn't aware of this... 

    This is what I've been familiar with though;



    Promises made to the Order of St Benedict...

    From the book: The Life of St Benedict by Pope St Gregory the Great 

    1) His order will continue to exist to the End of the World.

    2) It will, at the End of the World, in the final battle, render great services to the holy Church and confirm many in the faith.

    3) No one shall die in the Order whose salvation would not be assured. And if a monk begins to lead a bad life and does not amend, he will fall into disgrace, or be expelled from the Order, or will leave it of his own accord.

    4) Everyone who persecutes his order and does not repent will see his days shortened or meet with an unfortunate end.

    5) All, however, who love his order will obtain a happy death.
    Logged

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #19 on: February 21, 2018, 05:46:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
    • Maybe this is a topic for another thread, but outside of the earliest manifestations of the benedictine order, and I must say what st francis brought to the table as the result of a special grace, I am not fond of religious orders.  With that said, I will concur with st gregory the great.  Because, benedictine brothers are the only remedy to a heretical papacy.  Brothers being the key word.
    Logged
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10305
    • Reputation: +6215/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #20 on: February 21, 2018, 05:56:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote
    I also really have to say, that every single catholic state in life is supposed to be conducive to contemplation.

    Ok, but you're missing the point that Contemplative orders have lives that go far beyond being 'conducive to' contemplation.  Their lives are contemplation itself.
    Examples as to why these orders are important:
    -  Moses prayed alone on Mt Sinai for the Jєωιѕн race.  He was an intercessor of sorts.
    -  Christ often withdrew, in solitude, to pray.  Specifically for 40 days and 40 nights - which is the example we have for Lent.
    -  Our Lady, mother of the Church, lived her whole life in contemplation.

    Here is a short article on the value of contemplatives to the Church:
    https://www.dominicanajournal.org/wp-content/files/old-journal-archive/vol15/no1/dominicanav15n1valuethecontemplativelife.pdf

    Progress in intimacy with God means progress toward silence.  “For God alone my soul waits in silence,” declares the Psalmist, (Psalm 62:1).  

    The desert father Ammonas, a disciple of Saint Anthony, writes, “I have shown you the power of silence, how thoroughly it heals and how fully pleasing it is to God.  Know that it is by silence that the saints grew, that it was because of silence that the power of God dwelt in them, because of silence that the mysteries of God were known to them.”  It is this recreating silence to which we are called in contemplative prayer.
    Logged

    Offline Marlelar

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3473
    • Reputation: +1816/-233
    • Gender: Female
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #21 on: February 21, 2018, 07:15:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • My understanding is that even contemplative orders sustain themselves by one means or another.  Most, I think at least raise animals and keep a kitchen garden.  Others may produce communion hosts or sew Mass vestments.  They are contemplative so do not go out into the world to nurse or catechize, but they are not idle.
    Logged

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #22 on: February 21, 2018, 07:24:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 21, 2018, 05:56:34 PM
    Ok, but you're missing the point that Contemplative orders have lives that go far beyond being 'conducive to' contemplation.  Their lives are contemplation itself.
    Examples as to why these orders are important:
    -  Moses prayed alone on Mt Sinai for the Jєωιѕн race.  He was an intercessor of sorts.
    -  Christ often withdrew, in solitude, to pray.  Specifically for 40 days and 40 nights - which is the example we have for Lent.
    -  Our Lady, mother of the Church, lived her whole life in contemplation.

    Here is a short article on the value of contemplatives to the Church:
    https://www.dominicanajournal.org/wp-content/files/old-journal-archive/vol15/no1/dominicanav15n1valuethecontemplativelife.pdf

    Progress in intimacy with God means progress toward silence.  “For God alone my soul waits in silence,” declares the Psalmist, (Psalm 62:1).  

    The desert father Ammonas, a disciple of Saint Anthony, writes, “I have shown you the power of silence, how thoroughly it heals and how fully pleasing it is to God.  Know that it is by silence that the saints grew, that it was because of silence that the power of God dwelt in them, because of silence that the mysteries of God were known to them.”  It is this recreating silence to which we are called in contemplative prayer.
    While moses was alone on mt sinai, the Jєωs sinned and worshiped the golden calf.  His contemplation brought him closer to god to produce the two tablets, but his contemplation did not sanctify the people.  A better example might be moses lifting up his arms while the Jєωs were in battle, but he eventually got tired, and needed the help of aaron and another.  But, that is not really an occasion of contemplation religious will successfully imitate.

    The desert monks would be the best example of christ in the desert during lent.  But, the desert monk structure was ultimately rejected by the west for its defects particularly concerning lack of community, excess of prayer, and lack of a work or labora.  We need to have a balance of ora et labora.  The desert monks did not have that.  And, I would say the desert monks were what you describe as contemplatives.  

    As for our lady, contemplation is not an effective buzzword.  

    The advice given to benedictines is go into your cell, and recite the psalms.  Too much silence can be deafening.  

    Logged
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline St Ignatius

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1024
    • Reputation: +794/-158
    • Gender: Male
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #23 on: February 21, 2018, 07:32:53 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • PG, this is only my opinion, but I think you'd benifit greatly by reading a wonderfully written book by John Senior. The title is The Restoration of Christian Culture... If it's possible to get your hands on a copy, I really believe it would help you get on an even keel. 
    Logged

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #24 on: February 21, 2018, 09:06:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: Marlelar on February 21, 2018, 07:15:55 PM
    My understanding is that even contemplative orders sustain themselves by one means or another.  Most, I think at least raise animals and keep a kitchen garden.  Others may produce communion hosts or sew Mass vestments.  They are contemplative so do not go out into the world to nurse or catechize, but they are not idle.
    It is good and I would even say essential if the property allows it to have a garden and animals.  And, if the property doesn't allow it, perhaps it is the wrong property.  What bothers me are the examples of monks beer/liqueur mongering.  And, coffee mongering is not too far behind.  These in my opinion are the result of too much time on ones hands.  This is a fruit of idleness.  Our vocation to tend gods garden has been so mechanized and made easy that we no longer spend our contemplative time doing them.  And, instead the churches contemplatives/monks are employed in ventures that falsely ease the consciences of the mighty and intoxicate the minds of the destitute.
    Logged
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10305
    • Reputation: +6215/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #25 on: February 21, 2018, 09:28:51 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • You are one fanatical dude, PG.

    You give examples of activities conducive to contemplation (milking a cow, hauling water, changing diapers) but then you chastise monks for making beer or coffee?!  Can they not contemplate while doing these things?  You need to pray to St Benedict for moderation and a curbing of your extreme views.  Your over-idealism has turned into the folly of intolerance (paraphrased from Churchill).  

    Remember the old saying:  "The perfect is the enemy of the good."

    "Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem."  
    Logged

    Offline PG

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1734
    • Reputation: +457/-476
    • Gender: Male
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #26 on: February 21, 2018, 09:39:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 21, 2018, 09:28:51 PM
    You are one fanatical dude, PG.

    You give examples of activities conducive to contemplation (milking a cow, hauling water, changing diapers) but then you chastise monks for making beer or coffee?!  Can they not contemplate while doing these things?  You need to pray to St Benedict for moderation and a curbing of your extreme views.  Your over-idealism has turned into the folly of intolerance (paraphrased from Churchill).  

    Remember the old saying:  "The perfect is the enemy of the good."

    "Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem."
    Churchill?  Is that all you got?  I am well aware of the dangers of perfection.  And, where might your final quote have come from?  I tend to prefer proverbs, wisdom, and parables that come from the bible.  And, that sounds far from.  
    Logged
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10305
    • Reputation: +6215/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #27 on: February 21, 2018, 09:44:40 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • You're rejecting quotes on the 'dangers of idealism' because they aren't from the Bible.  That's hilariously ironic and you prove my point.
    Logged

    Offline Marlelar

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3473
    • Reputation: +1816/-233
    • Gender: Female
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #28 on: February 21, 2018, 09:58:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • I would disagree with PG that making beer, wine, or roasting coffee is not a good use of time at a monastery.  They need to be producing something and these are things that people are willing to purchase and there is nothing inherently wrong with them. 

    I do not have a citation but I'm pretty sure monks of old brewed their own beer and fermented their own wine.  Coffee? probably not since that came from the New World, but coffee is not "bad" per se, and I would not be surprised if they started doing it once coffee drinking gained popularity in Europe.

    We do know that St. Benedict drank wine (some of his dear brothers tried to poison his cup)  and I'll bet it was monastery made.

    As far as what is "allowed" on property, once you buy rural property you can do with it what you like.  If a contemplative order was in a city I'm sure they could still find wholesome ways to produce an income which didn't involve chickens and goats. 
    Logged

    Offline Fanny

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 571
    • Reputation: +248/-408
    • Gender: Female
    Re: New benedictine sister house in new mexico pictures
    « Reply #29 on: February 21, 2018, 10:17:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Beautiful!!
    Logged
    Pages: 1 [2] 3
    « previous next »