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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => SSPX Resistance Chapels => Topic started by: Geremia on August 23, 2022, 10:48:32 PM

Title: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Geremia on August 23, 2022, 10:48:32 PM
Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Jr1991 on August 23, 2022, 11:17:09 PM
I can only speak to the local SSPX. Yes, they seem to be against homeschooling. Building a school seemed like an obsession second to building a chapel. 
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Matthew on August 24, 2022, 01:39:18 AM
It's simple.

Homeschooling is better for the child, in most cases. But sending your kid(s) to the SSPX school -- assuming there is one -- is better for the SSPX organization.

Guess which "good" the SSPX priests focus on? You guess it -- the good of the SSPX.

The SSPX would rather have 1 new Trad attending one of their chapels -- and putting donations in the collection every week -- than 10 new Trads attending a "competitor".
Sad? Shocking? Unbelievable? But I must say, in my experience it's unfortunately true. Maybe a few priests are more selfless, remembering that it's about God and the good of souls. But for so many neo-SSPX priests, they don't care what's better for souls, even specific souls. They care FIRST and FOREMOST about the good of their chapel, their organization.

The proof is the whole new orientation. No one can say a sellout is good for souls, the Church, the cause of Tradition, etc.! But it's better for the SSPX organization. And so...

They have adopted a completely worldly, materialist mentality. They are obsessed with image/brand, (hence their hiring a corporate branding firm), numbers, their reputation among infidels and Conciliar Catholics, and other human concerns.

McDonalds would rather have 1 new customer, than see Burger King get 10 new customers. That's fine for a restaurant. There is no "good for souls" in eating fast food. But Trad chapels should be happy that souls are being taken care of, WHEREVER they attend the Tridentine Mass. The priests should be glad to have help, even if that help is from another "rival" organization.

Do you think St. Isaac Jogues and the other North American Martyrs (read their adventures sometime! Quite edifying.) would have been so territorial? Or would they be happy to have any help they could get? They labored constantly to convert souls to Christ, while simultaneously fighting against the devil and his minions in the world, who constantly work against the salvation of souls. See, the saints had a SPIRITUAL, SUPERNATURAL mindset. They understood that the world was a huge battle God vs. the devil, and they kept that big picture in mind always. They weren't concerned with credit, numbers, earthly glory, real estate, or any of that.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: epiphany on August 24, 2022, 08:45:19 AM
I heard an sspx priest go so far as to call homeschooling "child abuse" from the pulpit.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: ServusInutilisDomini on August 24, 2022, 08:56:00 AM
I heard an sspx priest go so far as to call homeschooling "child abuse" from the pulpit.
I'm surprised to hear that. Seems like I am ignorant of the true liberalism of the SSPX.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: epiphany on August 24, 2022, 10:06:58 AM
I'm surprised to hear that. Seems like I am ignorant of the true liberalism of the SSPX.
My experience was 10 years ago, at least.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: hansel on August 24, 2022, 10:48:25 AM
Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?

As a general answer I would say yes, although it can vary widely depending on location and the mindsets of the individual priests.

In my experience, SSPX anti-homeschooling sentiment is most likely to be found in the larger communities with well-established schools (think St. Mary's, Post Falls, etc. ). As Matthew said, in the SSPX mindset homeschooling represents competition to the school, and in these places the "competition" is very direct. Therefore, unfair bias against those who choose to homeschool can be very pronounced in these locations.

Most folks in these communities who homeschool appear to do so for the right intentions (they disagree with liberal elements or they are trying to escape other obviously serious problems with the schools). Strangely enough though, there is also often a minority who homeschool in these communities for the "wrong" reasons (don't want to dress modestly, indult-minded, took issue with the outspoken priest who criticized Pope Francis, etc.). Obviously, these examples of poor formation often have poor outcomes because they are inherently liberal-minded. Unfortunately, the leaders/teachers of the schools cherry-pick these examples of poor formation, and then smear homeschooling as a whole. They then make joining their school a sort of spiritual crusade, while at the same time not properly addressing the spiritual and physical problems in their own systems.   

On the other hand, in SSPX mission chapels it can vary widely depending on the individual priest. Many seem to "tolerate" homeschooling if there is no other practical option. However, I have also seen some who encourage families in this regard by having "homeschool days" to share materials. Most of the ones who seem favorable to homeschooling are the older "hard-liner" conservative SSPX priests rather than the youngest ones. Not sure what their "theoretical" thinking is about school vs homeschool in an ideal world, but they don't seem antagonistic to homeschoolers in the practical context. 

Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: DustyActual on August 24, 2022, 11:10:39 AM
As a general answer I would say yes, although it can vary widely depending on location and the mindsets of the individual priests.

In my experience, SSPX anti-homeschooling sentiment is most likely to be found in the larger communities with well-established schools (think St. Mary's, Post Falls, etc. ). As Matthew said, in the SSPX mindset homeschooling represents competition to the school, and in these places the "competition" is very direct. Therefore, unfair bias against those who choose to homeschool can be very pronounced in these locations.

Most folks in these communities who homeschool appear to do so for the right intentions (they disagree with liberal elements or they are trying to escape other obviously serious problems with the schools). Strangely enough though, there is also often a minority who homeschool in these communities for the "wrong" reasons (don't want to dress modestly, indult-minded, took issue with the outspoken priest who criticized Pope Francis, etc.). Obviously, these examples of poor formation often have poor outcomes because they are inherently liberal-minded. Unfortunately, the leaders/teachers of the schools cherry-pick these examples of poor formation, and then smear homeschooling as a whole. They then make joining their school a sort of spiritual crusade, while at the same time not properly addressing the spiritual and physical problems in their own systems.   

On the other hand, in SSPX mission chapels it can vary widely depending on the individual priest. Many seem to "tolerate" homeschooling if there is no other practical option. However, I have also seen some who encourage families in this regard by having "homeschool days" to share materials. Most of the ones who seem favorable to homeschooling are the older "hard-liner" conservative SSPX priests rather than the youngest ones. Not sure what their "theoretical" thinking is about school vs homeschool in an ideal world, but they don't seem antagonistic to homeschoolers in the practical context.
I can confirm that the mission chapels will be more favorable towards homeschooling. I attend a mission chapel and we have recently established a homeschooling program with the full support of our SSPX priest; He himself is an older hardline SSPX priest who was trained by Bishop Williamson in the 80s.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Matthew on August 24, 2022, 11:35:57 AM
I can confirm that the mission chapels will be more favorable towards homeschooling. I attend a mission chapel and we have recently established a homeschooling program with the full support of our SSPX priest; He himself is an older hardline SSPX priest who was trained by Bishop Williamson in the 80s.

I would certainly hope this is the case at SSPX chapels/missions without a school.
I mean, what would these SSPX priests want families to do to educate their children, seriously? Send their kids to public school in 2022? Come on!

And it's not just far-flung places in the boondocks without a school. Try SAN ANTONIO, TX, one of the top 10 cities in the United States, by population. So I'm sure there are other large cities, with weekly Mass (plus Holy Days and many weekdays) that nevertheless do not have a school. San Antonio can't be the only one.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Seraphina on August 24, 2022, 11:36:23 AM
The SSPX is generally against homeschooling in places where there is a well-established Society school readily available.  Barring that situation, homeschooling or boarding school is usually recommended.  Many large families cannot afford boarding school and I believe the vast majority of children do not have an SSPX school nearby.  Most SSPX schools accept general education pupils only, meaning, if there is a child with special needs, he will have to look elsewhere.  
I’m not sure if there is a specific recommendation, but in general, I’ve seen much support for homeschooling.  
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: SimpleMan on August 24, 2022, 11:41:04 AM
To be fair, "back in the day", if you had a parish school, you had no need to homeschool, you could rest assured that your children were being taught the fullness of the Faith, and the teachers were at least reasonably competent to teach non-religious subjects as well.  Therefore if the SSPX is seeking to restore what we had "back in the day", they have a somewhat good case.   And so far as I am aware, the 1917 CIC didn't anticipate homeschooling.  Homeschooling would only have existed in "the back of beyond" where there was no school at all, Catholic or otherwise.

Very few of us have "back in the day" circuмstances anymore.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Jr1991 on August 24, 2022, 12:38:46 PM
It's simple.

Homeschooling is better for the child, in most cases. But sending your kid(s) to the SSPX school -- assuming there is one -- is better for the SSPX organization.

Guess which "good" the SSPX priests focus on? You guess it -- the good of the SSPX.

The SSPX would rather have 1 new Trad attending one of their chapels -- and putting donations in the collection every week -- than 10 new Trads attending a "competitor".
Sad? Shocking? Unbelievable? But I must say, in my experience it's unfortunately true. Maybe a few priests are more selfless, remembering that it's about God and the good of souls. But for so many neo-SSPX priests, they don't care what's better for souls, even specific souls. They care FIRST and FOREMOST about the good of their chapel, their organization.

The proof is the whole new orientation. No one can say a sellout is good for souls, the Church, the cause of Tradition, etc.! But it's better for the SSPX organization. And so...

They have adopted a completely worldly, materialist mentality. They are obsessed with image/brand, (hence their hiring a corporate branding firm), numbers, their reputation among infidels and Conciliar Catholics, and other human concerns.

McDonalds would rather have 1 new customer, than see Burger King get 10 new customers. That's fine for a restaurant. There is no "good for souls" in eating fast food. But Trad chapels should be happy that souls are being taken care of, WHEREVER they attend the Tridentine Mass. The priests should be glad to have help, even if that help is from another "rival" organization.

Do you think St. Isaac Jogues and the other North American Martyrs (read their adventures sometime! Quite edifying.) would have been so territorial? Or would they be happy to have any help they could get? They labored constantly to convert souls to Christ, while simultaneously fighting against the devil and his minions in the world, who constantly work against the salvation of souls. See, the saints had a SPIRITUAL, SUPERNATURAL mindset. They understood that the world was a huge battle God vs. the devil, and they kept that big picture in mind always. They weren't concerned with credit, numbers, earthly glory, real estate, or any of that.

So true. When the SSPX was getting ready to fundraise for a new chapel, priory, and school where I live, they hired an organization specializing in funding campaigns. They had all sorts of commercials up on YouTube, Give butter, etc. They started selling raffle-type tickets for a fundraising dinner at $100.00 apiece and even created multiple websites to aid in capturing funds. This occurred in the middle of the plandemic when many faithful were out of work.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: songbird on August 24, 2022, 02:14:00 PM
Our Lady of Sorrows, in Phoenix, I understand, was know to have said from the pulpit, their school was correct and not to have children go there, mortal sin??

AZ is very open to home schooling and it is Not a mortal sin to home school.  There are vouchers, BUT, if a private school accepts vouchers, is the school public for taking the money/vouchers?  You don't want the state to step in!

AZ is well established for home schooling, very friendly.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: MaterDominici on August 24, 2022, 11:08:40 PM
It's simple.

Homeschooling is better for the child, in most cases.
Since this is the premise for the rest of your post, are you saying homeschooling is always better than Catholic school or just that the SSPX is basically equivalent to any other modern Catholic school?

If a Resistance priest were pushing a new school, would he be considered "anti-homeschool"?

I'd think that if a family is attending an SSPX chapel that has a school, there wouldn't be a huge list of advantages to homeschooling. It would be much more of a toss up since they'd obviously not be against the SSPX in general. :confused:
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: trento on August 24, 2022, 11:54:06 PM
Since this is the premise for the rest of your post, are you saying homeschooling is always better than Catholic school or just that the SSPX is basically equivalent to any other modern Catholic school?

If a Resistance priest were pushing a new school, would he be considered "anti-homeschool"?

I'd think that if a family is attending an SSPX chapel that has a school, there wouldn't be a huge list of advantages to homeschooling. It would be much more of a toss up since they'd obviously not be against the SSPX in general. :confused:

I agree. It depends on the location, whether there is an existing SSPX school available or not. From my experience, all SSPX priests suggests an SSPX school or homeschooling. Some parents even send their kids to SSPX boarding schools in other countries, if they can afford it.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Matthew on August 25, 2022, 12:32:05 AM
Since this is the premise for the rest of your post, are you saying homeschooling is always better than Catholic school or just that the SSPX is basically equivalent to any other modern Catholic school?

I'm saying that:

1. SSPX schools might be for the most part orthodox (not the schismatic) and kosher (not literally I hope). Seriously, they don't have a lot of outright error, but there are downsides. SSPX schools are not without their problems, being as they are IN THE WORLD and drawing FROM THE WORLD for their teachers. They usually don't have enough money (due to lack of students) so they hire young ladies just waiting to find a husband and get married. By the time they have some knowledge and/or experience, they found their husband and they quit their teaching job. The problems become much worse when the school wishes to compete with worldly academic institutions... Let's just say they might hire the wrong kind of teachers.

2. Many (most?) SSPX schools are a joke compared to the pre-Vatican II parochial schools they are trying to emulate or replace. I'm not old enough to remember them personally, but based on reading and talking to older individuals, academic standards and curricula at SSPX schools are a complete joke compared to what could be had at a Catholic school in the 1950's. This runs closely parallel to SSPX Seminary curricula vs. what used to be normal at a Seminary pre-Vatican II. Ladislaus can elaborate on this one.

3. It's hard to teach groups of kids as effectively as a mother/father can do one-on-one -- when such an option is possible. One-on-one attention is always going to result in the most learning done. That's why private lessons are more expensive than "small group" lessons, which are more expensive than regular classes. Not everyone has the money, time, or ability to homeschool -- but that doesn't mean homeschooling isn't the best.

4. Jesus Christ was homeschooled.

5. The PRIMARY responsibility for raising and educating children rests with the PARENTS. Not just education in the Faith, but in everything. It's one of those inalienable rights that parents have. As in, if the State tries to take this away, it's time to fight. Now parents are free to delegate that task to the Church (parochial/private schools) or even the State (God forbid, since about 2000), but it's still the parents' responsibility to educate their children. No one else's. That's why it's laughable that SSPX priest(s) are claiming mortal sin for those who chose to NOT avail themselves of SSPX schools. IT'S THEIR CHOICE.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: trento on August 25, 2022, 04:03:04 AM
Not everyone has the money, time, or ability to homeschool -- but that doesn't mean homeschooling isn't the best.

This doesn't square. If the parents do not have the time and ability to homeschool, the results could be disastrous compared to sending to a school (SSPX or non-SSPX). I do agree with you that ultimately it's the parents' choice and right on the education of their children.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: epiphany on August 25, 2022, 03:53:44 PM
To be fair, "back in the day", if you had a parish school, you had no need to homeschool, you could rest assured that your children were being taught the fullness of the Faith, and the teachers were at least reasonably competent to teach non-religious subjects as well.  Therefore if the SSPX is seeking to restore what we had "back in the day", they have a somewhat good case.  And so far as I am aware, the 1917 CIC didn't anticipate homeschooling.  Homeschooling would only have existed in "the back of beyond" where there was no school at all, Catholic or otherwise.

Very few of us have "back in the day" circuмstances anymore.
I would argue that none of us have "back in the day" circuмstances anymore.

I sent one of my children to an sspx boarding school.  Worst idea ever.  Learned about porn, perverts, uncontrolled internet access, bad language, bullying, and how to be sneaky among others.

They had a high-school graduate teaching 9th grace English, and a math professor who thought a child should not receive "A" grades if the child didn't show the work (did it in their head).  

One of my nieces taught 5th grade at an sspx school when she had only just graduated high school.

Homeschooling is the only way to go. 
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Geremia on August 25, 2022, 07:10:04 PM
4. Jesus Christ was homeschooled.
Supplemented by the 3-days-long teaching of the doctors in the temple (Lk. 2:40-52 (https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drl&bk=49&ch=2&l=40-52#x)).
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Geremia on August 25, 2022, 07:11:33 PM
math professor who thought a child should not receive "A" grades if the child didn't show the work
What's wrong with that?
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: SimpleMan on August 25, 2022, 07:18:11 PM
I would argue that none of us have "back in the day" circuмstances anymore.

I sent one of my children to an sspx boarding school.  Worst idea ever.  Learned about porn, perverts, uncontrolled internet access, bad language, bullying, and how to be sneaky among others.

They had a high-school graduate teaching 9th grace English, and a math professor who thought a child should not receive "A" grades if the child didn't show the work (did it in their head). 

One of my nieces taught 5th grade at an sspx school when she had only just graduated high school.

Homeschooling is the only way to go.

It works for us.  My son is actually quite proficient in doing "math in his head" and his tests are very often interactive (between him and me), if he can give me the right answer, or failing that, show me where his reasoning led him, I will give him as much credit as he deserves.  I work with him, within reason, until he masters the material in each class.  We do sometimes reach a point where I have to say "you know as much about this particular subject as you're ever going to know", and if it comes up a "B" or a "C", so be it.  If every grade is an "A", then grades are meaningless.  (If he is veering towards a "D" or an "F" --- and it has happened --- then we stop and I work with him until I can pull him up into A/B/C territory.  If he fails, then I've failed.)
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Nadir on August 25, 2022, 07:36:16 PM
I would argue that none of us have "back in the day" circuмstances anymore.

I sent one of my children to an sspx boarding school.  Worst idea ever.  Learned about porn, perverts, uncontrolled internet access, bad language, bullying, and how to be sneaky among others.

They had a high-school graduate teaching 9th grace English, and a math professor who thought a child should not receive "A" grades if the child didn't show the work (did it in their head). 

One of my nieces taught 5th grade at an sspx school when she had only just graduated high school.

Homeschooling is the only way to go.
There is no reason to think that a well educated high school graduate is not capable of teaching well.

‘Back in the day’, teachers’s college did not exist. My brother who is 5 years younger,  tells me that when he started school he could already read because I taught him to read, so at that stage I would have been 10. I have no memory of this, but he swears I taught him and I believe him.

Mother Mary McKillop started a school in a stable which grew to be a great establishment, without training. You are either a teacher or you are not. Most HSing parents are not trained to teach, they just try and they do.

Teacher’s colleges mainly indoctrinate the students, can kill the imagination, and set them in a certain pattern which is hard to break out of. 

I taught “untrained” in a mission school for two years and did well and loved it. Your own schooling, whether school-based or home-based, is quite sufficient, if done well.

My grandfather, a country boy and farmer, always wanted to become a teacher and so went back to school (I do mean school, not college/uni) and achieved his ambition. As he fathered 12 children, he would have always had one of his own in class. But of course he got paid for schooling his own. I remember him well teaching me how to spell Constantinople, breaking up into syllables and making it into a little jingle.

Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Geremia on August 25, 2022, 07:45:32 PM
I taught “untrained” in a mission school for two years and did well and loved it. Your own schooling, whether school-based or home-based, is quite sufficient, if done well.
The pre-Vatican II teaching sisters didn't have much formal education in teaching either. Their habits and the discipline they instilled did much of the teaching.
Today especially, education degrees are indoctrination into liberalism.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: de Lugo on August 25, 2022, 08:06:55 PM
This doesn't square. If the parents do not have the time and ability to homeschool, the results could be disastrous compared to sending to a school (SSPX or non-SSPX). I do agree with you that ultimately it's the parents' choice and right on the education of their children.

I agree with all that you say, but I think that what some here are suspicious (?) of, is the automatic/default response from the priest that if a school is available, and you choose not to use it, the results will certainly be spiritually and academically disastrous (and that this plausible risk -real though it is- is advanced almost in the form of a spiritual threat, as though the parents will be guilty of culpable negligence for their decision not to attend, whatever the reasons). 

One issue I perceive in all the trad schools I am familiar with, is that they have a very militaristic one-size-fits-all curriculum/rules/policies (almost as if they were pre-seminaries).  Some children will thrive in such an atmosphere, and some will not.  Will the schools take the blame for the failures as eagerly as they take the credit for the successes? 

I think the major point here is that parents, as primary educators, know what is best for their children, and it almost sometimes seems as though some clergy are opposing that notion (possibly even for self-serving ends, like growing their apostolate's numbers, as though that equated to saving souls, or a better chance of doing so).
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: epiphany on August 25, 2022, 08:16:30 PM

I think the major point here is that parents, as primary educators, know what is best for their children, and it almost seems as though some clergy are opposing that notion.
Agreed 100%
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: epiphany on August 26, 2022, 11:06:37 AM
What's wrong with that?
If a child can do the math in his head and get the problems correct each time, there is no reason to dumb-down the child and demand he show the work.  To the contrary, i would commend the child for his great brain.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Incredulous on August 27, 2022, 01:57:37 PM
PLUG


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Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Incredulous on August 27, 2022, 01:59:58 PM

PLUG


I recommend this home-school program.

They teach the "non judaized" sciences and history and grade all the tests and homework.


[img width=300 height=155 title=ADA-icon]https://i0.wp.com/ada.school/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/ADA-icon.jpg?resize=300%2C155&ssl=1[/img]
Please contact us:

We are always glad to hear from new customers and our already-enrolled families with questions, concerns, suggestions, or “just because”.
Hours of operation:  Monday through Friday, 9 am to 6 pm pm Central Standard Time
Phone and email messages are generally answered within one business day.

785-260-7999
info@ada.school (info@ada.school)
Angelic Doctor Academy, Inc.
25150 Oregon Trail Road
St Marys, KS   66536


Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Charity on September 02, 2022, 05:11:28 PM
PLUG


I recommend this home-school program.

They teach the "non judaized" sciences and history and grade all the tests and homework.


[img width=300 height=155 title=ADA-icon]https://i0.wp.com/ada.school/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/ADA-icon.jpg?resize=300%2C155&ssl=1[/img]
Please contact us:

We are always glad to hear from new customers and our already-enrolled families with questions, concerns, suggestions, or “just because”.
Hours of operation:  Monday through Friday, 9 am to 6 pm pm Central Standard Time
Phone and email messages are generally answered within one business day.

785-260-7999
info@ada.school (info@ada.school)
Angelic Doctor Academy, Inc. (https://www.ada.school/)
25150 Oregon Trail Road
St Marys, KS  66536
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Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Giovanni Berto on September 02, 2022, 10:34:04 PM
Supplemented by the 3-days-long teaching of the doctors in the temple (Lk. 2:40-52 (https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drl&bk=49&ch=2&l=40-52#x)).
Quote
(https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drl&bk=49&ch=2&l=40-52&q=1#x)[46] (https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drl&bk=49&ch=2&l=46-#x) And it came to pass, that, after three days, they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, hearing them, and asking them questions.

[47] (https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drl&bk=49&ch=2&l=47-#x) And all that heard him were astonished at his wisdom and his answers. (https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drl&bk=49&ch=2&l=40-52&q=1#x)

I would argue that Our Lord was actually teaching the doctors.

As Jesus is God, he had no reason to be schooled at all. He knew everything. There was nothing that St. Joseph or Our Lady could teach him. It was the other way around.

It's just something that has occured to me. I wonder is this has ever been discussed by some authoritative theologian.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Geremia on September 02, 2022, 11:34:39 PM
I would argue that Our Lord was actually teaching the doctors. […] I wonder is this has ever been discussed by some authoritative theologian.
Jesus, Who knows everything already, had no need to ask questions except to teach us.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Giovanni Berto on September 03, 2022, 07:54:16 PM
Jesus, Who knows everything already, had no need to ask questions except to teach us.

I agree.

My interpretation is that He asked the doctors questions to test them and to confuse them.

And then, He took the discussion further and solved the doubts that He had raised by his questioning. He was the master, even though He was just twelve years old.

This method happens with some frequency in the Gospels. A good example is when Our Lord asked a certain disciple (Philip, I think), just before the miracle of mutiplying bread, how they would feed all those people. If I remember correctly, the text says explicitly that He did this to test Philip, and not because He didn't know what to do, which would be absurd.

St. John the Baptist also instructs his own disciples to ask if Jesus is really the messiah. It is obvious that he had no doubt about this, but he acted like this to make his disciples believe that Our Lord was really the messiah.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: Geremia on September 03, 2022, 11:26:34 PM
St. John the Baptist also instructs his own disciples to ask if Jesus is really the messiah. It is obvious that he had no doubt about this, but he acted like this to make his disciples believe that Our Lord was really the messiah.
Yes, that's the classic example of His teaching by questioning.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: canis on September 04, 2022, 04:19:03 PM
To answer the question, as a general rule, yes. Individual priests privately differ, and some chapels will adopt more-or-less generous policies towards the matter, but the short answer remains yes, and this is reinforced by those priests who have consistently been in the most prominent positions of education for the SSPX.

I refer to one of my previous posts that rebuts a number of the problems in most SSPX thinking regarding this issue: https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/sspx-letter-on-the-vaxing-of-nz-teachers/msg799255/#msg799255

There is an deep lack of understanding of Catholic philosophy of education even to the very top of the current SSPX hierarchy. I know a certain SSPX superintendent who has revealed an appalling attitude towards homeschooling and such parents behind closed doors.

This is of course not to say there are problems with some homeschooling circuмstances. But the other side of that same argument is, are there no problems to schools? Every solution is a compromise to some degree. Families are imperfect societies; hence the Church teaches that schools supplement family education, but must not replace it. But schools, too, are imperfect in many ways. If a child learns the ways of the world from his school peers, or even worse from his teacher, is corrupted in vice, or Heaven forbid, is involved in an abusive situation, what good was the school? If worse, those in charge of the school have repeatedly neglected their grave responsibilities to ensure a safe, holy environment and enforce the highest standards of virtue and behavior among the children, isn't "traditional Catholic academy" under the "SSPX" all a tragic marketing joke?

Once the corruption begins, at such an impressionable age, it is extremely hard to undo. The Jesuits had the old saying, "Give me a child until he is 7, and I will show you the man he will be come." This isn't to be understood in a mechanistic, input-output manner, but that as anyone who has experience teaching young children and seeing their progress in the later years knows full well, the seeds and foundation are all clearly visible at a very young age. It takes much moral effort, much grace, and much sorrow to correct a faulty foundation in the later years.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: praesul on October 05, 2022, 07:24:11 PM
I think the major point here is that parents, as primary educators, know what is best for their children, and it almost sometimes seems as though some clergy are opposing that notion (possibly even for self-serving ends, like growing their apostolate's numbers, as though that equated to saving souls, or a better chance of doing so).
Especially for the early learning years this is true. Giving the child a safe and nurturing environment where they can be trained to love God and to think is so valuable. In the state of the world in this time I simply do not trust schools, including so called traditional schools with young children.  
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: epiphany on October 07, 2022, 01:34:31 AM
 I simply do not trust schools, including so called traditional schools
Agreed.
An sspx told me we should move to an area with an sspx school rather than homeschool.  I told him I would never, ever, send my child to an SSPX school again, nor would I recommend anyone else do so.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: angelusmaria on October 07, 2022, 07:24:12 AM
So here's a story.  First, for the record, I go to a CMRI chapel.  I personally know a woman, a recent convert from Lutheranism (MS).  She was going to the FSSP for Confirmation.  As there were no Sede chapels near her, I convinced her to switch to the SSPX chapel near her, where she would at least get valid Sacraments, including Confirmation.  She wants to be a teacher.  She applied to a Novus Ordo "Conservative" University to work and to go to school and the SSPX priest, still knowing she is new to the Faith, not even Confirmed yet, encouraged her to go, despite the dangers it poses, because he said her teaching degree will be useful for teaching at an SSPX school :facepalm:.

Short story, she said the wrong things (or right things by my account) and didn't get the job, but continued the classes, one of which is jam-packed with Wokeism and taught by a Jєω.  She only started going to the SSPX chapel in late Spring/Early Summer.  Through meeting a friend of a friend of mine, she got a job teaching at a different SSPX, a school affiliated with them.  They hired her, again, new to the Faith, only months an SSPX-goer, not even Confirmed, with only a few-months-long pedigree from the previous SSPX chapel she was hailing from.  Now, she is a wonderful person, is fairly red-pilled about the world, the small-hats, etc....but still very naive about the Crisis in the Church, and new to the Faith.  She is teaching 2nd and 3rd graders while continuing her Confirmation catechesis.  It is a much, much, much better situation for her than what she was in, so I am grateful for that.  However, it doesn't speak well of the SSPX, and makes them look desperate and willing to make hasty decisions regarding the quality of teachers they will recruit.
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: epiphany on October 07, 2022, 12:06:15 PM
So here's a story.  First, for the record, I go to a CMRI chapel.  I personally know a woman, a recent convert from Lutheranism (MS).  She was going to the FSSP for Confirmation.  As there were no Sede chapels near her, I convinced her to switch to the SSPX chapel near her, where she would at least get valid Sacraments, including Confirmation.  She wants to be a teacher.  She applied to a Novus Ordo "Conservative" University to work and to go to school and the SSPX priest, still knowing she is new to the Faith, not even Confirmed yet, encouraged her to go, despite the dangers it poses, because he said her teaching degree will be useful for teaching at an SSPX school :facepalm:.

Short story, she said the wrong things (or right things by my account) and didn't get the job, but continued the classes, one of which is jam-packed with Wokeism and taught by a Jєω.  She only started going to the SSPX chapel in late Spring/Early Summer.  Through meeting a friend of a friend of mine, she got a job teaching at a different SSPX, a school affiliated with them.  They hired her, again, new to the Faith, only months an SSPX-goer, not even Confirmed, with only a few-months-long pedigree from the previous SSPX chapel she was hailing from.  Now, she is a wonderful person, is fairly red-pilled about the world, the small-hats, etc....but still very naive about the Crisis in the Church, and new to the Faith.  She is teaching 2nd and 3rd graders while continuing her Confirmation catechesis.  It is a much, much, much better situation for her than what she was in, so I am grateful for that.  However, it doesn't speak well of the SSPX, and makes them look desperate and willing to make hasty decisions regarding the quality of teachers they will recruit.
Agreed.
One sspx school hired a relative of mine to teach high schoolers.  She had just graduated homeschool high school herself.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: hansel on October 07, 2022, 03:36:48 PM
So here's a story.  First, for the record, I go to a CMRI chapel.  I personally know a woman, a recent convert from Lutheranism (MS).  She was going to the FSSP for Confirmation.  As there were no Sede chapels near her, I convinced her to switch to the SSPX chapel near her, where she would at least get valid Sacraments, including Confirmation.  She wants to be a teacher.  She applied to a Novus Ordo "Conservative" University to work and to go to school and the SSPX priest, still knowing she is new to the Faith, not even Confirmed yet, encouraged her to go, despite the dangers it poses, because he said her teaching degree will be useful for teaching at an SSPX school :facepalm:.

Short story, she said the wrong things (or right things by my account) and didn't get the job, but continued the classes, one of which is jam-packed with Wokeism and taught by a Jєω.  She only started going to the SSPX chapel in late Spring/Early Summer.  Through meeting a friend of a friend of mine, she got a job teaching at a different SSPX, a school affiliated with them.  They hired her, again, new to the Faith, only months an SSPX-goer, not even Confirmed, with only a few-months-long pedigree from the previous SSPX chapel she was hailing from.  Now, she is a wonderful person, is fairly red-pilled about the world, the small-hats, etc....but still very naive about the Crisis in the Church, and new to the Faith.  She is teaching 2nd and 3rd graders while continuing her Confirmation catechesis.  It is a much, much, much better situation for her than what she was in, so I am grateful for that.  However, it doesn't speak well of the SSPX, and makes them look desperate and willing to make hasty decisions regarding the quality of teachers they will recruit.

Quote
epiphany said: 
Agreed.


One sspx school hired a relative of mine to teach high schoolers.  She had just graduated homeschool high school herself.  :facepalm:


I've noticed a similar pattern as well. In general, teaching jobs in the SSPX do not pay very well, and therefore are not a survivable option for many folks (especially young men trying to get established before marriage etc.). As a result, the job candidates for these positions are few and far between, and there is a high turnover of these teachers in these jobs. When a candidate does show up, there can be a somewhat desperate scramble to hire regardless of specific academic (and even more importantly, spiritual) qualification. Granted, from the perspective of the school, it needs teachers to function and these are difficult to find. However, the potential ramifications for students would need to thought through very carefully, and if  in any way the choice would compromise their Faith, it shouldn't be done.

For a historical parallel, it reminds me a little of what happened to the German air force near the end of WWII. Once all the best pilots or "aces" were shot down/unavailable, the only remaining options were the youngest trainees. These were immediately pressed into service as pilots on complex missions regardless of their length of training or qualifications. Predictably, the result was a marked decrease in overall performance and efficacy... 

Quote
She applied to a Novus Ordo "Conservative" University to work and to go to school and the SSPX priest, still knowing she is new to the Faith, not even Confirmed yet, encouraged her to go, despite the dangers it poses, because he said her teaching degree will be useful for teaching at an SSPX school :facepalm:.

The SSPX can have a somewhat strange love/hate relationship with academic degrees from modern universities. On one hand, some priests can be vocal about specific errors of "modern academia" or some types of "modern scholarship" etc., which in most cases is justifiable. Sometimes this even grows into a general cynicism about the value of all academic degrees from a given modern university (which may or may not be a correct opinion; it all depends on what the specific degree is in, or where it was done, etc.).

On the other hand though, they often react favorably to the general mention of "education/teaching degree," in a candidate even though modern education degrees can be susceptible to liberal/modernist thought.  With so few Master's or doctoral degree holders in their teaching ranks, there can also be a tendency to view their few higher-level degree holders into "infallible" celebrities who are the complete end-all in their given subject. This can cause issues, as it often results in the academic opinions of one individual being framed as "dogmas". 

A well-trained traditional Catholic might be able to sift the good and discard the bad from a degree program (and perhaps could even provide valuable insights based upon this). However, it would definitely be more difficult for a recent convert/Novus Ordo Catholic to do this.   





Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: praesul on October 07, 2022, 06:06:00 PM
Just thinking aloud here...not every Catholic couple is able to effectively manage the process of homeschooling their children. If we can put our heads together and develop working programs to help families collaborate and share resources to get some form of Catholic support group and / or homeschool coop programs going in areas where there enough of us, that seems to be worth the effort. With the internet Catholic families can work out ways to decentralize much of the "specialized" instruction (like theology and Latin language). I am pretty sure the prots have done this in some areas. 
Title: Re: Is the neo-SSPX against homeschooling?
Post by: epiphany on October 07, 2022, 06:11:10 PM
not every Catholic couple is able to effectively manage the process of homeschooling their children. 

They can if they try.
God would not have given parents children with no ability to teach them.