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The BODers ask the question, what happens to a person that is justified before they are baptized, then dies. The answer is that they can't be truly justified except through baptism.
It is just common sense if one understands that our conversion and our faith is totally a gift from God. He gives us the knowledge and the impulse to do every milimeter of move in His direction. Why would God "justify" a person before baptism and then pull the rug out from him? It is a ridiculous question, and exactly what I've been saying for years.

The Ridiculous Question:

What happens to a person who is "justified" before he is baptized, then dies before baptism?

(The ludicrous response, the response of 99.99% of the false BODers just shows the insanity the question leads to: Jews, Mohamedans, Hindus, Buddhists etc. can be saved by their belief in a rewarder god.

and rightly St. Augustine called it the vortex of confusion:

St. Augustine on the Errors of Pelagius said:
If you wish to be a catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that “they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them which the Almighty has predestined.” There is in such a dogma more power than I can tell assigned to chances in opposition to the power of God, by the occurrence of which casualties that which He has predestinated is not permitted to come to pass. It is hardly necessary to spend time or earnest words in cautioning the man who takes up with this error against the absolute vortex of confusion into which it will absorb him, when I shall sufficiently meet the case if I briefly warn the prudent man who is ready to receive correction against the threatening mischief. Now these are your words: “We say that some such method as this must be had recourse to in the case of infants who, being predestinated for baptism, are yet, by the failing of this life, hurried away before they are born again in Christ.” Is it then really true that any who have been predestinated to baptism are forestalled before they come to it by the failing of this life? And could God predestinate anything which He either in His foreknowledge saw would not come to pass, or in ignorance knew not that it could not come to pass, either to the frustration of His purpose or the discredit of His foreknowledge? You see how many weighty remarks might be made on this subject; but I am restrained by the fact of having treated on it a little while ago, so that I content myself with this brief and passing admonition.
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https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2017/08/11/scientists-use-crispr-gene-editing-tool-to-manipulate-behavior-in-ants/

This GMO operation (using CRISPR technology) is permanently changing the germline of these ants and with the specific purpose of changing their social behavior. Technocrats do not consider ethics or unfavorable outcomes that will surely occur. ⁃ TN Editor

The gene-editing technology called CRISPR has revolutionized the way that the function of genes is studied. So far, CRISPR has been widely used to precisely modify single-celled organisms and, more importantly, specific types of cells within more complex organisms. Now, two independent teams of investigators are reporting that CRISPR has been used to manipulate ant eggs—leading to germline changes that occur in every cell of the adult animals throughout the entire ant colony. The papers appear August 10 in Cell.
“These studies are proof of principle that you can do genetics in ants,” says Daniel Kronauer, an assistant professor at The Rockefeller University and senior author of one of the studies. “If you’re interested in studying social behaviors and their genetic basis, ants are a good system. Now, we can knock out any gene that we think will influence social behavior and see its effects.”
Because they live in colonies that function like superorganisms, ants are also a valuable model for studying complex biological systems. But ant colonies have been difficult to grow and study in the lab because of the complexity of their life cycles.
The teams found a way to work around that, using two different species of ants. The Rockefeller team employed a species called clonal raider ants (Ooceraea biroi), which lacks queens in their colonies. Instead, single unfertilized eggs develop as clones, creating large numbers of ants that are genetically identical through parthogenesis. “This means that by using CRISPR to modify single eggs, we can quickly grow up colonies containing the gene mutation we want to study,” Kronauer says.
The other team, a collaboration between researchers at New York University and the NYU School of Medicine, Arizona State University, the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, and Vanderbilt University. , used Indian jumping ants (Harpegnathos saltator). “We chose this species because they have a peculiar feature that makes it easy to transform workers into queens,” says Claude Desplan, a Silver Professor at NYU and one of the senior authors of the second study. If the queen dies, the young worker ants will begin dueling for dominance. Eventually, one of them becomes a “pseudoqueen”—also called a gamergate—and is allowed to lay eggs.
“In the lab, we can inject any worker embryo to change its genetic makeup,” Desplan says. “We then convert the worker to a pseudoqueen, which can lay eggs, propagate the new genes, and spawn a new colony.”
Desplan, co-senior author Danny Reinberg, a Howard Hughes Medical Institute investigator at NYU Langone, and Shelley Berger, the Daniel S. Och University Professor in the departments of Cell and Developmental Biology and Biology at Penn, began studying these ants several years ago as a way to learn about epigenetics, which refers to changes in gene expression rather than changes in the genetic code itself. “The queens and the worker ants are genetically identical, essentially twin sisters, but they develop very differently,” Desplan says. “That makes them a good system for studying epigenetic control of development.”
The gene that both research teams knocked out with CRISPR is called orco (odorant receptor coreceptor). Ants have 350 genes for odorant receptors, a prohibitively large number to manage individually. But due to the unique biology of how the receptors work—a great stroke of luck, in this case—the investigators were able to block the function of all 350 with a single knockout. “Every one of these receptors needs to team up with the Orco coreceptor in order to be effective,” says Waring Trible, a student in Kronauer’s lab and the first author of the Rockefeller study.Once the gene was knocked out, the ants were effectively blind to the pheromone signals they normally use to communicate. Without those chemical cues, they become asocial, wandering out of the nest and failing to hunt for food.
Read full story here…
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https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2017/08/13/darpa-accelerates-tech-work-human-enhancing-human-senses/

Regardless of benevolent-sounding platitudes about helping medical patients, DARPA’s singular military mission is to create technology-enhanced super-soldiers. ⁃ TN Editor

DARPA, the research arm of the U.S. Department of Defense, awarded contracts to six teams working on developing better brain-computer interface technology. The goal, according to DARPA, is to repair and enhance the senses of those with disabilities.
REPAIRING AND ENHANCING
The U.S. Department of Defense is moving forward with its work on brain-computer interfaces (BCIs), with the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) awarding contracts to five research groups and one private company on Tuesday.
BCIs have been around for a while now, but the potential for expanding their capabilities is relatively recent. The primary purpose of BCIs have been developing better neuroprostheses, which is also one of the visions of DARPA’s Neural Engineering System Design (NESD) program. Through NESD, DARPA wants to develop high-resolution brain interfaces that could restore and enhance human senses.
“The NESD program looks ahead to a future in which advanced neural devices offer improved fidelity, resolution, and precision sensory interface for therapeutic applications,” founding NESD program manager Phillip Alvelda said at the announcement, the Singularity Archive reports. Of the six awarded contracts, four will work on vision enhancement while the other two will focus on hearing and speech.
Back in 2016, DARPA announced that NESD will develop neural interface systems that will improve communication between the brain and the digital world. The idea is to convert electrochemical signals in the brain into the binary bits of zeros and ones used in computers. Braintree founder Bryan Johnson even thinks it’s possible to make our neural code programmable through such systems.
Not only would this help treat persons with sense disabilities by inputting various senses directly into the brain as digital signals, it would also enhance them. The ability of such neural interface systems to do this has led others working on similar technologies — like Elon Musk with his Neuralink — to consider BCIs as humanity’s way of keeping up with the development of intelligent machines. Indeed, the power of BCIs to meld the human mind with machines has led to the emerging field of neuroreality, which is a transformation of how we see and interact with the world around us.
Read full story here…
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HAHA. It's complicated...unlike Catholic Dogma.
I think theres a potentially good argument f/simplicity to be made.

However, if so there is likely a wheel to be "invented".
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Crisis in the Church / Re: Paul VI Still Alive and in Hiding
« Last post by DZ PLEASE on Today at 06:04:10 AM »
My, this is serious information, and must be taken seriously.

Pope St. Paul VI The Great, so we've heard is alive and well, and living on the Flat Earth, with the Sun circling around him.  He's in a secret underground base in Antarctica, with Elvis and Cardinal Siri and the real Sister Lucy, until next week and the "America in Eclipse" event.  He's been on a really long sabbatical, hiding away from those lizard folk (the modernists) that Paul Icke was warned us about - more like a vacation sometimes.  So, he's a sede-vacationist more than sede-vacantist.  BTW, he gave his tripe tiara to the UN so that they could put it on his chair, showing that it wasn't really empty.

He's been dealing with a serious issue - there was a hidden defect in his infant baptism that has been mysteriously and mystically (and mythically?) revealed to him.  Now, he fully desires to be a member of the Church (that he's the head of), and has been willing to shed his blood for it for the past 100-200 years, but woe is me.  Everyone thinks he is dead, so he can't get anyone to baptize him, and he can't baptize himself.  But not to worry, that's not really going to be the Moon obscuring the Sun next week (what an insane and heretical idea!) - it's really a huge glob of water.  Don't we all know there's a huge wall water just hanging over us?  It's actually Dark Water - the EENS equivalent of Dark Matter.  Deny Dark Water and your soul is lost!  So, the glob of Dark Water will baptize Paul VI, and all will be well.  Well for Paul VI, but it might well tip the Earth from being Flat to something slightly different, like Eggshell, Matte, or Semi-Gloss - this could attract all the "Dark" in the "Dark Water", ushering in the Three Days of Darkness, slightly inconveniencing the rest of us.
Anti-Catholic Answers ban you for hurty-wording?
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Anonymous Posts Allowed / Re: Foreign Priests Poor English a Punishment from God?
« Last post by Anonymous on Today at 06:00:45 AM »
Do Americans speak English?

Thank you for that little bit of light relief after a very heavy thread. Anonymous, reveal yourself so that you can take the benefit.
Not many people speak English here in this part of the United States. The only problem is they don't speak anything else either. 
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Thanks for trying man. Preesh.
HAHA. It's complicated...unlike Catholic Dogma.
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I believe it's when someone believes that it's the Sacrament that saves in voto as Ladislaus puts it. They say that you need the sacrament but you can receive the Sacrament by actually desiring it. It's still BOD though and not taught by the Church.
Thanks for trying man. Preesh.
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1. Sede
2. Have asked members here and elsewhere to elaborate on this Catholic(?) BO(?).
 1. Response? none.


Frankly, esp. outside the comparatively tiny cat wrangle of CI, I find Sededefectists to hold to BoD, in myriad iterations and mutation.

What they rarely DON'T hold to is either Liguori or Aquinas in the matter, which makes them super-special, esp. when they, with the consistency of a madman, froth at the gob otherwise.

This is often accompanied by calling SV heresy, yet  when asked to JUSTify that with specs, the most you ever really get is bits of V1 with the word "primacy" oddly glossed over or, more likely, omitted entirely.

TL;DR/Crayon version
1. There is no pope this side of the dirt.
2. Not SACRAMENTALLY baptised = Hell
3. Not Catholic = Hell

So, another SV who REJECTS BoD/B.

I would ask again for this allegedly non-heretical version, but why bother yet again?
Correction: "… rarely DO… "
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Crisis in the Church / Re: Paul VI Still Alive and in Hiding
« Last post by Barry on Today at 05:47:59 AM »
My, this is serious information, and must be taken seriously.

Pope St. Paul VI The Great, so we've heard is alive and well, and living on the Flat Earth, with the Sun circling around him.  He's in a secret underground base in Antarctica, with Elvis and Cardinal Siri and the real Sister Lucy, until next week and the "America in Eclipse" event.  He's been on a really long sabbatical, hiding away from those lizard folk (the modernists) that Paul Icke was warned us about - more like a vacation sometimes.  So, he's a sede-vacationist more than sede-vacantist.  BTW, he gave his tripe tiara to the UN so that they could put it on his chair, showing that it wasn't really empty.

He's been dealing with a serious issue - there was a hidden defect in his infant baptism that has been mysteriously and mystically (and mythically?) revealed to him.  Now, he fully desires to be a member of the Church (that he's the head of), and has been willing to shed his blood for it for the past 100-200 years, but woe is me.  Everyone thinks he is dead, so he can't get anyone to baptize him, and he can't baptize himself.  But not to worry, that's not really going to be the Moon obscuring the Sun next week (what an insane and heretical idea!) - it's really a huge glob of water.  Don't we all know there's a huge wall water just hanging over us?  It's actually Dark Water - the EENS equivalent of Dark Matter.  Deny Dark Water and your soul is lost!  So, the glob of Dark Water will baptize Paul VI, and all will be well.  Well for Paul VI, but it might well tip the Earth from being Flat to something slightly different, like Eggshell, Matte, or Semi-Gloss - this could attract all the "Dark" in the "Dark Water", ushering in the Three Days of Darkness, slightly inconveniencing the rest of us.
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