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Anonymous Posts Allowed / Re: Indult Mass at Sanford Florida SSPX Chapel
« Last post by Anonymous on Today at 06:55:27 AM »
The whole point of the SSPX was to form and educate in order to obtain holy priests.
The whole point of gunpowder is to make fireworks. NOT! 
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Are you serious?  There are 1.1 billion people in the world who call themselves Catholic.  How many of them do you think are traditional?  Let’s forget about the laity because it’s easier to track the clergy.  How many priests are traditional?  How many are SSPX?  How many are sedes?  And how many are Resistance?  Does anyone know?  I’m certain that there are more sede priests than Resistance priests in North America.  So how can you be throwing out statistics?  You more than anyone should be loathe to start looking at statistics.  And I’m pretty sure I have seen you downplay statistics in the past but now all of a sudden you think statistics prove your position is correct?
If you think that we should include laity in this, just remember that a significant number of sedes go to SSPX and resistance chapels so I don’t think it helps your cause.
I think you misunderstood Matthew's point. Matthew was saying in that portion that, IF sedes are correct, certainly R&R are of good will. That has been his experience. 
Now, about the statistics. There are 1.313 billion Catholics in the world, out of 7.4 billion people, per latest Vatican official statistics: "Out of a world population of 7,408 million, 1,313 million or 17.7% are baptized Catholic" https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2019/03/06/190306b.html
How many Priests in the world? Some 415,000 "Between 1970 and 2017, the number of priests declined from 419,728 to 414,582 in 2017.[2][3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_shortage_in_the_Catholic_Church
How many Traditional Priests? Around 10,000, or 2.5%. 
SSPX: 971 (637 priests) members. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X 
FSSP: 418 members (304 priests) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priestly_Fraternity_of_Saint_Peter
ICRSS: 193 members (100 priests) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Christ_the_King_Sovereign_Priest
This is already over a 1000, and probably will be well over 2000, I daresay, within a decade from now. 
Interested persons can use similar links to research further. About the SSPV, the CMRI or any such group.
There are also about 5000 Traditional Diocesan Priests: "At least 3,000 diocesan priests (maybe up to 5,000, if one includes those who are very cautious because of their local bishops) who celebrate it regularly, even if not exclusively, including 1,000 at least in the United States: this is the Summorum Pontificum group, by far the largest."
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2019/02/around-5000-priests-currently-celebrate.html
Finally, as for the Thread OP, yes, the Crisis in the Church is a Supernatural Mystery, but as Rev. Father Jean Michel Gleize, Seminary Professor of Ecclesiology at Econe, says so well, a 61 year sede vacante leads to an absurdity, and therefore can be reasonably excluded.
"The Angelus: As for the place of the pope in all this, we certainly must admit that there is a mystery here, a mystery of iniquity.
Fr. Gleize: No doubt, but a mystery is a truth that surpasses reason; that the Church should be habitually deprived of her head is an absurdity and contrary to the promises of indefectibility. One of the reasons the founder of the Society of Saint Pius X could rely on to reject the sedevacantist hypothesis was that “the matter of the visibility of the Church is too essential to its existence for God to be able to do without it for decades; the reasoning of those who assert the non-existence of the pope places the Church in an insoluble situation.”3 Actually, your reasoning is more or less equivalent to sedevacantism. This is nothing new; but it is an old error that was already condemned by the founder of the Society of Saint Pius X. Pardon me if I disappoint you, but I will not run the risk of trying to be wiser than Solomon! The 40 years of Archbishop Lefebvre’s episcopate matter, if not in the sight of men, at least in the sight of God. Archbishop Lefebvre was a great man, a great bishop, because he was a man of the Church.
The Angelus: Thank you, Father Gleize." http://www.angelusonline.org/index.php?section=articles&subsection=show_article&article_id=3501
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Quote from: Stubborn
The biggest problem with your idea, (not the only one though) is that many (most?) sedes cannot make it to the first "R", much less past it.
Dear Stubborn, I understand what you mean, but that's not a problem, it's only a challenge. Obviously, no sede will agree with "R" and remain sedevacantist. The point is there are 3 positions, so we don't need a false dichotomy of 2. There is (1) SVism, (2) R&Rism, and (3) RPWR. Also, I think it can be fairly proved that RPWR derives directly from Archbishop Lefebvre, and not indirectly from Fr. Cekada.

If there were no other reason to reject the acronym "R&R" going forward, the fact that Fr. Cekada, a sede, coined it, should suffice imo. 

As for how to bring Sedes to admit "the first R", which is a challenge for both of those who hold 2 or 3, many possible ways were suggested in the OP. The simplest is from the Pope's appointment of Bishops to dioceses. If there is no Pope for 61 years, all dioceses will fall vacant. But that is heretical. Therefore, 61 year SVism is heretical, and it is necessary to recognize these Popes are True Popes.

All sedes won't immediately agree, but this refutation of their error is quite sound and can be easily defended.

Quote from: Meg
I think you are correct in that Cekada coined the descriptor of "R&R," and it is indeed a kind of derision, which is why I tend to not use it. The sedevacantists and sedewhatevers use it of course, since they go along with a lot of Cekada's views, and they do not support the Resistance. 
Yes, and so we who are non sede Traditionalists should consider steering clear of sede-invented terms coined for us by Fr. C.

But more basically, we should be asking ourselves, beside Recognizing the Pope, what are our main obligations. I think (1) Prayer, (2) Work, while aiming for (3) Restoration summarizes it quite reasonably well; it's also lifted from a para in +ABL, and moreover, we could reasonably say, His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre dedicated his whole life to Prayer, Work and Restoration. 

Nevertheless, if someone - who is a non-sede Traditionalist himself or herself - has a better acronym, I'm all ears. 

Quote from: Mega Fin
It’s also not that we can take +ABL’s position from one quote
You can read all his letters and writings throughout the years, and I doubt you'd hardly find a more convenient acronym for +ABL's work. Do read https://www.sspxasia.com/Documents/Archbishop-Lefebvre/Apologia/index.htm and let us know if it is otherwise. 

I've read it and I believe "RPWR" summarizes Archbishop Lefebvre's teaching and thought much better than Cekada-coined "R&R".

Otherwise, there's no reason those who are faithful to Archbishop Lefebvre should not follow, even today, "We wish to remain attached [Hence, Pillar I: Recognize] to Rome and to the Successor of Peter, while refusing his Liberalism through fidelity to his predecessors. We are not afraid to speak to him, respectfully but firmly, as did St. Paul with St. Peter. 

And so, far from refusing to pray for the Pope, we redouble our prayers and supplications that the Holy Ghost will grant him light and strength in his affirmations and defense of the Faith. [Hence, Pillar II: Pray]

Thus, I have never refused to go to Rome at his request or that of his representatives [Pillar III: Work]. The Truth must be affirmed at Rome above all other places. It is of God, and He will assure its ultimate Triumph."[Pillar IV: Restoration, which comes faster more we do 2 and 3] - See Chapter 40 of Volume 2 of the work above, as cited in the OP. 

God bless.
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It is indeed "my business" to recognize and oppose heresy.

You boasted of being a heretic as indeed you are.
These says he that has the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars:
I know your works, that you have a name that you live, but you are dead.
(Rev3:1)

You are naming yourself traditional catholics, but you are a fringe sect that is less catholic than the (disgracefully pro-lgbtqp) Lutheran Church of Finland.

If you mean, that being very fixed in tradition is the right way, then go apologize and convert to Russian orthodoxy, because they are the truest tradition, you are just followers of the filioque heresy of 1054. There is nothing catholic about staying dead in the past.

These six things the LORD hates: and seventh is an abomination for his soul:
A proud look (haughty eyes), a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speakes lies, and he that sows discord among brothers.
(Pro 6:16-19)

You SSPX Lefebrist sect of anti-catholics just sow discord among catholic christian brothers and you are abomination for the soul of God.

And those who have ears, read J21:23-24 - this one even didn't faithfully write down, what the Son of Man has said here, and his testimony is false, and I do not want him to stay when I have returned.

----

You, Mark79, the accuser (denunciator) Rat, who twice accused (blamed) me of being rat for no good reason, it was just your beam in your eye speaking. (Mt7:3)
Falsely accusing me of "whataboutism" while you yourself have been performing whataboutism and diversion against me.
While others may have not understand it well, from you it was just a dirty envy against my revelations.
And as you lie "preens his antisemitism bona fides", mere ten of my posts here have shown too anti-semitic (because of unpleasant and dangerous Truth), even for your board, which is just one of controlled opposition dens, misleading people into wrong lies about covenants and other nonsense. (You are not in a position to declare God's covenants valid or invalid, yoy are just a bitching rat.)
And you commited all seven failures from Proverbs 6, some of them just virtually over internet, but I do not doubt you would commit them physically too, if you could...

Some wife and good Mato accusing me of pride in Introduction, that is also just a beam in your eye, but I forgive that to you...

Admin Matthew boasting of having "much lighter moderating hand" in his interview banned and erased me the first day without any warning just for advocating martyr Jan Hus, (into which advocating I've been cornered by opponent's diversion), you Lefebwrist heretics accused me of being Hussite heretic, excommunicated and burned me at virtual stack even without a warning or due process.
The next day I've just proven, that you do not withstand true biblical anti-semitism here, which I've promised originally, you just spew misleading lies and non-dangerous half-truths from judaism.is website, and witless geo-centric nonsense lies to keep people in darkness...


I thank good Meg for what has she done to me, delivering my original message about Francis in a quote to make it to the archive.org for a testimony... (Now you can delete it here if you like, it doesn't matter any more...)

https://web.archive.org/web/20190911134422/https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/introduce-yourself!/1035/
https://web.archive.org/web/20190911083735/https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/francis-its-an-honor-that-americans-attack-me/15/
(From the talk about Francis and Jan Hus there only stayed, what the opponents quoted from me, who served me as my Hippolytus, foremost thanks to the good Meg, and who served as a proof you have erased me in vain...)
https://web.archive.org/web/20190911114539/https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/jewish-v-christian-spirit/165/

I'm just sorry that I've lost my time today with you here...

https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/to-hell-with-vatican-ii/msg666873/#msg666873
klasG4e has hit it right - CathInfo and Matt are just a controlled opposition gatekeepers, false fraud... In spiritual darkness are those who claim to be catholics while opposing Vatican II reform...

The Pope does everything he can to serve the Luciferians into misleading people, that Antichrist is a Pope in Vatican, while he is just a minor bag-holder servant of the mighty Antichrist collective, which are not just not-good-enough christians, but outright anti-christians and you all know (((them)))...
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Anonymous Posts Allowed / Re: Indult Mass at Sanford Florida SSPX Chapel
« Last post by Anonymous on Today at 05:29:17 AM »
The whole point of the SSPX was to form and educate in order to obtain holy priests.
I don't accept that it was ever the "whole point." 
+ABL wanted to maintain tradition for the Church, since men came to him to ask him what they should do about not being able to find a decent Catholic seminary. It was also about retaining proper Catholic teaching, along with proper formation. Due to Econe speaking out against Vll, Rome sent a visitation to the seminary. That's when things began to unravel, but +ABL stood firm in maintain tradition, even though he was eventually suspended, and he was told to not ordain any more priests. But he didn't listen to Modernist Rome.
So you see, it wasn't only about forming and educating. it was also about speaking out against error.
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General Discussion / Re: Remember The Mass Rocks
« Last post by cassini on Today at 04:51:04 AM »
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General Discussion / Re: Remember The Mass Rocks
« Last post by cassini on Today at 04:50:50 AM »
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General Discussion / Re: Remember The Mass Rocks
« Last post by cassini on Today at 04:50:35 AM »
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General Discussion / Re: Remember The Mass Rocks
« Last post by cassini on Today at 04:50:21 AM »
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