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Author Topic: World Leader of the Past: Fr. Jozef Tiso (1887-1947)  (Read 1036 times)

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Offline Degrelle

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World Leader of the Past: Fr. Jozef Tiso (1887-1947)
« on: September 06, 2016, 08:09:41 AM »
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  • Recently, while reading a novel that takes place in the early 1950s, I came across a comment that one character makes about a Fr. Tiso who led Slovakia during WW2. Nothing else is mentioned of him, but I was wondering if Father was some Slovakian leader title or if they actually meant this man was a priest.

    I did a Google search and learned that Fr. Jozef Tiso, a Roman Catholic priest, was president of the First Republic of Slovakia which existed from 1938 to 1945.

    I didn't think it could be possible for a priest to be the head of a secular state, but I could easily be wrong. I've never looked it up, this was just a "sense" that I had. Does anyone know what (pre-Vatican II) canon law says about a priest or other cleric holding such a position?

    From what I was able to learn from an excerpt of a book entitled Priest, Politician, Collaborator: Jozef Tiso and the Making of Fascist Slovakia, Pope Pius XI "accepted" Fr. Tiso as head of the Slovak state, which I take to mean he gave permission or at least did not forbid it. The aforementioned book of course levels the accusations of "collaboration" and "fascism" (the greatest of crimes). Well, as we know, it seems that most Catholics "collaborated" with the Germans as a form of self-defence against Bolshevism. But Fr. Tiso, from what I've read this evening, seems like he was a pretty good leader (as are many of the other so-called "collaborators" and "fascists" of that time period). Apparently he was so well-loved that while president he was able to stroll the streets of Bratislava without any bodyguards.

    He was, of course, executed for "collaboration" by the Bolsheviks after the war.

    There is not much information in English available. So I was wondering if anyone else here knows anything about Fr. Tiso?


    Offline reconquest

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    World Leader of the Past: Fr. Jozef Tiso (1887-1947)
    « Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 11:08:18 AM »
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  • I came across this reference in an old Crisis Magazine article the other day:

    "Many French Thomists had been sympathetic to Petainism in their hostility to the French Revolutionary heritage. Unfortunately, however, “what has been taken from the French Revolution, from the Rights of Man and the Citizen, has gone to Hitler, not to St. Thomas.” Waldemar Gurian chided Simon that this was to be expected, for if St. Thomas were alive, he would be for Franco, for Tizo, for Petain. And Simon wondered if this might not be true, for in 1941 the notorious Petainist Father Garrigou-Lagrange was St. Thomas in philosophical circles."
    "There's a mix of passion and shortsightedness in me, even when I'm positive that I'm doing my very best to see things for what they are, that warns me that I'll never know for sure. Undoubtedly I must follow the truth I can see, I have no choice and I must live on; but that is for me only, not to impose on others." - Fr. Leonardo Castellani


    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    World Leader of the Past: Fr. Jozef Tiso (1887-1947)
    « Reply #2 on: September 06, 2016, 04:17:20 PM »
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  • He deported all of Slovakia's Jєωs, had his enemies imprisoned or killed and held very strong pro-fascist views. Very typical of 1940's Europe.

    Interesting that he remained a priest while being office, though. I know in the case of one of Haiti's dictators, he had to request laicization before he could run for President.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline Matto

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    World Leader of the Past: Fr. Jozef Tiso (1887-1947)
    « Reply #3 on: September 06, 2016, 05:07:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: JezusDeKoning
    He deported all of Slovakia's Jєωs, had his enemies imprisoned or killed and held very strong pro-fascist views. Very typical of 1940's Europe.

    Are these things supposed to be bad? They are certainly politically incorrect. I don't see anything wrong with deporting the Jєωs. That was a common practice in Catholic countries throughout history. Also, many countries imprisoned those who opposed the government. They were called "traitors" and sometimes they were even executed. Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with having pro-fascist views. I would prefer that to having pro-communist views. They call Franco a fascist and he supported the Church. So if you prefer Franco to Stalin you would have pro-fascist views.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    World Leader of the Past: Fr. Jozef Tiso (1887-1947)
    « Reply #4 on: September 06, 2016, 05:39:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: JezusDeKoning
    He deported all of Slovakia's Jєωs, had his enemies imprisoned or killed and held very strong pro-fascist views. Very typical of 1940's Europe.

    Are these things supposed to be bad? They are certainly politically incorrect. I don't see anything wrong with deporting the Jєωs. That was a common practice in Catholic countries throughout history. Also, many countries imprisoned those who opposed the government. They were called "traitors" and sometimes they were even executed. Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with having pro-fascist views. I would prefer that to having pro-communist views. They call Franco a fascist and he supported the Church. So if you prefer Franco to Stalin you would have pro-fascist views.


    No, I'm just saying he had a very typical mindset of 1940s Europe. If you look through a lot of their views, they largely all think the same. There's nothing wrong with fascism as long as no one gets killed.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...


    Offline monka966

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    World Leader of the Past: Fr. Jozef Tiso (1887-1947)
    « Reply #5 on: September 06, 2016, 07:17:58 PM »
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  • I am afraid that you will not be able to get an honest assessment of Fr. Tiso's character in English speaking world. Your best bet would be to know/ have someone who could translate from Polish or Slovak.

    Offline songbird

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    World Leader of the Past: Fr. Jozef Tiso (1887-1947)
    « Reply #6 on: September 07, 2016, 12:05:14 AM »
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  • I have a book"Church and the state in Czechoslovakia" and it mentions Tiso 6 times.

    Page 182:  The government will carry out its task w/o delay and will spare nobody.  Persons guilty of high treason, like Hacha's so-called Berlin Pact, all members of the "Protectorate" government from March 16, 1939, Tiso and the members of the so-called Slovak government from March 1r, and members of the so-called Slovak Parliament will be brought before the National Court.

    Page 153:  President Dr. Hacha, was forced to turn over those provinces to the protection of Adolf Hitler. Even before Hacha could act, Germans began to occupy those provinces of Czechoslovakia.  Slovaks proclaimed an independent state of Slovakia when Dr. Tiso was accepted by Adolf Hitler.

    Page 195: The bishops of Slovakia had a really troublesome position because Communists held them responsible for Tiso's action in forming a free Slovak Republic (1939 - 1945). (Bishop Michael Buzalka persecuted and Bishop Vojtassak suffered)

    Page 202: Letter Pope Pius XII March 1947: Monsignor Josef Tiso, was executed in Bratislava on April 18, 1947, after pardon had been denied him.  As a war criminal he was brought from exile, tried according to the regulations concerning war criminals and in accordance with the Kosice Program, condemned.  The harshness of the trial and all circuмstances connected with it made it very difficult for Slovaks to condone. Besides, since all this happened under instructions from Prague through Bratislava Slovak bishops refused their participation in celebrations of Saint Adalbert...

    Page 204:  All power in Slovakia had been seized by the Protestant minority, who gave Catholics many lectures on morale, referring to Tiso's Slovak Republic.

    Page 213:  Tiso Independent Slovak Republic

    Book by: Ludvik Nemec

    Offline songbird

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    World Leader of the Past: Fr. Jozef Tiso (1887-1947)
    « Reply #7 on: September 07, 2016, 12:16:51 AM »
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  • This book was so good reading.  It opened my eyes to how catholic clergy were forced/ removed from their parishes/dioceses and how others were put in their place to support the gov't and state.  Infiltration of those appearing to be "catholic" like what we have today, New Order.  All dioceses support the state and gov't, receive federal grants which implement the agenda of the communist/marxist. Saul Alinsky.

    I got the book at a Use book store.  One reference was also "The Tablet".


    Offline Degrelle

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    World Leader of the Past: Fr. Jozef Tiso (1887-1947)
    « Reply #8 on: September 07, 2016, 09:42:58 AM »
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  • Quote from: JezusDeKoning
    He deported all of Slovakia's Jєωs, had his enemies imprisoned or killed and held very strong pro-fascist views. Very typical of 1940's Europe.


    Well, as Matto said, Catholic rulers before including saints such as St. Louis IX of France, and other devout rulers like Isabella the Catholic of Spain have deported the Jєωs and with good reason. They are very disruptive to society, especially Catholic societies.

    As for Fr. Tiso and other 1940s European leaders, "had his enemies imprisoned or killed" really needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Consider who all of these men were prosecuted/persecuted by. In Fr. Tiso's case it was a Bolshevik show trial. You really can't rely on anything the history books say about the charges he was "convicted" of in that light. So it's impossible to know exactly how tough he was on "his enemies" and in any event those enemies were most likely communists so even if he did imprison them that's probably a good thing or at least well within the rights of legitimate government.

    Finally, re: "very strong pro-fascist views", the term fascist is so over-used that it barely means anything at all. Everyone from that era who was not a commie or an atheist capitalist, is labelled a "fascist". This includes not just Fr. Tiso but Antonio Salazar in Portugal, General Franco in Spain, Chancellor Dollfuss in Austria, Leon Degrelle in Belgium, etc. So maybe if you're going to say Fr. Tiso was "very strongly pro-fascist" you can give some examples so that a meaningful discussion may be had. I don't even know what you consider to be fascism (and as I say, the term is so frequently mis-used that it needs definition).

    Offline Degrelle

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    World Leader of the Past: Fr. Jozef Tiso (1887-1947)
    « Reply #9 on: September 07, 2016, 10:04:14 AM »
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  • @songbird -- thanks for sharing that information. Sounds like an interesting book.