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Offline Matthew

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Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
« on: March 15, 2016, 10:16:08 PM »
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  • http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton

    All the polls show a solid lead for Hillary in a Trump vs. Hillary Clinton contest.

    See what I mean? This is why I voted for Cruz in the primary.

    What do all you Trump fans have to say for yourselves?
    Want to say "thank you"? 
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    Offline Centroamerica

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #1 on: March 15, 2016, 10:29:20 PM »
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  • Huffington post is the most liberal, biased source that exists. I don't believe their accuracy. They frequently make posts mocking God and creationists. Anyways, I hear Hillary has rallies that are practically empty and Trump has rallies of hundreds of thousands of people. Tell me what I am missing here.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline MaterDominici

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #2 on: March 15, 2016, 10:36:04 PM »
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  • The page isn't an opinion piece.

    Currently tracking 97 polls from 18 pollsters.

    If you believe all of these 18 polling sources are faking the results, what exactly does that mean?

    My random opinion would be that Trump would do better in the head-to-heads, but for some reason, he consistently doesn't.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #3 on: March 15, 2016, 10:56:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Patricius
    I am surprised Matthew falls for these liberal and leftist polls.


    Can you point me to the correct polls then?

    As far as I know, this is pretty much all of them:
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/pres_general/
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Charlemagne

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #4 on: March 15, 2016, 11:22:22 PM »
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  • If you honestly think that Ted Cruz has more of a chance against Shillary than Trump does, you're beyond delusional. Only Trump even comes close to putting Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois in play in the general. Cruz's "evangelical" snake-handler bit won't play well in those places at all, but a street fighter like Trump will at least make it interesting. I don't give a rat's behind what Trump said about women or any other dead horse Matthew and Mater want to continue to beat, because Trump is the ONLY candidate who even has a shot of taking down the screeching feminαzι - if the FBI doesn't get to her first.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine


    Offline MaterDominici

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #5 on: March 15, 2016, 11:38:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Charlemagne
    If you honestly think that Ted Cruz has more of a chance against Shillary than Trump does, you're beyond delusional. Only Trump even comes close to putting Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois in play in the general. Cruz's "evangelical" snake-handler bit won't play well in those places at all, but a street fighter like Trump will at least make it interesting. I don't give a rat's behind what Trump said about women or any other dead horse Matthew and Mater want to continue to beat, because Trump is the ONLY candidate who even has a shot of taking down the screeching feminαzι - if the FBI doesn't get to her first.


    Now, you do actually have a point here. The only states that matter in the general are swing states. So, a national poll isn't the most useful.

    Florida and Ohio are swing states and conveniently have very recent polling due to today's primaries.

    Florida: Trump vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Clinton 49, Trump 41   Clinton +8
    Florida: Cruz vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Clinton 48, Cruz 43   Clinton +5
    Florida: Rubio vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Rubio 46, Clinton 47   Clinton +1
    Florida: Trump vs. Sanders   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Trump 42, Sanders 50   Sanders +8
    Florida: Cruz vs. Sanders   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Sanders 48, Cruz 41   Sanders +7
    Ohio: Trump vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Clinton 48, Trump 42   Clinton +6
    Ohio: Cruz vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Clinton 45, Cruz 47   Cruz +2
    Ohio: Kasich vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Kasich 57, Clinton 36   Kasich +21
    Ohio: Trump vs. Sanders   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Sanders 50, Trump 41   Sanders +9
    Ohio: Cruz vs. Sanders   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Sanders 45, Cruz 44   Sanders +1
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #6 on: March 15, 2016, 11:45:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: Patricius
    People who are for Trump are often afraid to reveal their preferences, because they fear to be judged by those who poll them!


    This is true. Trump does better in anonymous polls than phone polls (you should reflect on that for a moment, but it's not the point of this conversation). That doesn't mean we can't look at the anonymous poll and see just how he fares... I'll find you one in a few minutes, but this below is easier:

    Quote
    Remember, 2-3 weeks ago, Trump was not supposed to win in Florida! Because, supposedly, all blacks and hispanics were supposed to be for Rubio. And tonight he won in a landslide!


    Not true.
    Trump has been shown to win Florida ... pretty much forever.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/fl/florida_republican_presidential_primary-3555.html#polls
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Charlemagne

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #7 on: March 15, 2016, 11:50:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    Quote from: Charlemagne
    If you honestly think that Ted Cruz has more of a chance against Shillary than Trump does, you're beyond delusional. Only Trump even comes close to putting Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois in play in the general. Cruz's "evangelical" snake-handler bit won't play well in those places at all, but a street fighter like Trump will at least make it interesting. I don't give a rat's behind what Trump said about women or any other dead horse Matthew and Mater want to continue to beat, because Trump is the ONLY candidate who even has a shot of taking down the screeching feminαzι - if the FBI doesn't get to her first.


    Now, you do actually have a point here. The only states that matter in the general are swing states. So, a national poll isn't the most useful.

    Florida and Ohio are swing states and conveniently have very recent polling due to today's primaries.

    Florida: Trump vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Clinton 49, Trump 41   Clinton +8
    Florida: Cruz vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Clinton 48, Cruz 43   Clinton +5
    Florida: Rubio vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Rubio 46, Clinton 47   Clinton +1
    Florida: Trump vs. Sanders   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Trump 42, Sanders 50   Sanders +8
    Florida: Cruz vs. Sanders   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Sanders 48, Cruz 41   Sanders +7
    Ohio: Trump vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Clinton 48, Trump 42   Clinton +6
    Ohio: Cruz vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Clinton 45, Cruz 47   Cruz +2
    Ohio: Kasich vs. Clinton   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Kasich 57, Clinton 36   Kasich +21
    Ohio: Trump vs. Sanders   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Sanders 50, Trump 41   Sanders +9
    Ohio: Cruz vs. Sanders   NBC/WSJ/Marist   Sanders 45, Cruz 44   Sanders +1


    So, you show exactly two states' polling numbers - in the middle of March. Be honest: Do you think Cruz, an "evangelical" whack-job who believes in Dominionism and honestly believes he's some type of messianic figure, can pull independents, disaffected Democrats, and blue-collar workers the way Trump can? And remember this: Every single poll of note, whether it be Quinnipiac, Monmouth, Reuters, etc., had Shillary ahead by as much as 30 points the day before the Michigan Democrat primary. Polls mean nothing. If the Left really dreams of Trump getting the nomination as they claim, why all the sudden vitriol against him? It's simple: They're scared to death that he just might win.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine


    Offline MaterDominici

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #8 on: March 15, 2016, 11:59:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    Quote from: Patricius
    People who are for Trump are often afraid to reveal their preferences, because they fear to be judged by those who poll them!


    This is true. Trump does better in anonymous polls than phone polls (you should reflect on that for a moment, but it's not the point of this conversation). That doesn't mean we can't look at the anonymous poll and see just how he fares... I'll find you one in a few minutes, but this below is easier:



    Here you go. I took out all of the phone polls and included only Internet (anonymous) and automated phone (anonymous).

    http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton#!mindate=2015-07-01&estimate=custom&hiddenpollsters=abcpost,nbcwsj,cnn,fox,suffolkusa-today,quinnipiac,msnbctelemundomarist,mcclatchymarist,surveyusa

    Polling Trend

      Hillary Clinton 44.7%
      Donald Trump 36.8%
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #9 on: March 16, 2016, 12:11:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: Charlemagne
    So, you show exactly two states' polling numbers - in the middle of March.


    There are more, but they're not as recent. I can't give you future polls that haven't happened yet.

    Here's North Carolina, another swing state.

    North Carolina: Trump vs. Clinton   SurveyUSA   Clinton 43, Trump 45   Trump +2
    North Carolina: Trump vs. Sanders   SurveyUSA   Sanders 44, Trump 44   Tie
    North Carolina: Cruz vs. Clinton   SurveyUSA   Cruz 48, Clinton 43   Cruz +5
    North Carolina: Cruz vs. Sanders   SurveyUSA   Sanders 46, Cruz 42   Sanders +4
    North Carolina: Rubio vs. Clinton   SurveyUSA   Rubio 49, Clinton 42   Rubio +7
    North Carolina: Rubio vs. Sanders   SurveyUSA   Rubio 44, Sanders 45   Sanders +1

    North Carolina: Trump vs. Clinton   Elon University   Clinton 47, Trump 41   Clinton +6
    North Carolina: Trump vs. Sanders   Elon University   Sanders 48, Trump 40   Sanders +8
    North Carolina: Cruz vs. Clinton   Elon University   Cruz 46, Clinton 46   Tie
    North Carolina: Cruz vs. Sanders   Elon University   Sanders 47, Cruz 43   Sanders +4
    North Carolina: Rubio vs. Clinton   Elon University   Rubio 48, Clinton 45   Rubio +3
    North Carolina: Rubio vs. Sanders   Elon University   Rubio 46, Sanders 43   Rubio +3

    North Carolina: Trump vs. Clinton   PPP (D)   Clinton 43, Trump 44   Trump +1
    North Carolina: Trump vs. Sanders   PPP (D)   Sanders 44, Trump 42   Sanders +2
    North Carolina: Cruz vs. Clinton   PPP (D)   Cruz 46, Clinton 43   Cruz +3
    North Carolina: Cruz vs. Sanders   PPP (D)   Sanders 43, Cruz 43   Tie
    North Carolina: Rubio vs. Clinton   PPP (D)   Rubio 49, Clinton 40   Rubio +9
    North Carolina: Rubio vs. Sanders   PPP (D)   Rubio 45, Sanders 41   Rubio +4
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #10 on: March 16, 2016, 12:18:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: Charlemagne
    Be honest: Do you think Cruz, an "evangelical" whack-job who believes in Dominionism and honestly believes he's some type of messianic figure, can pull independents, disaffected Democrats, and blue-collar workers the way Trump can?


    I already said that I'd personally guess Trump would fare better. I also said elsewhere that I know polling is limited and sometimes substantially wrong. But, from the discourse here, you'd think the polls would show Trump having at least a slight advantage over the others at beating Hillary, but he doesn't.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson


    Offline Charlemagne

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #11 on: March 16, 2016, 10:32:45 AM »
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  • It's very sad that I have to quote a liberal rag like HuffPo to make my point, but here it is. Even they see the writing on the wall: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/musa-algharbi/the-dnc-is-about-to-coronate-donald-trump_b_9462374.html
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline songbird

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #12 on: March 16, 2016, 10:59:35 AM »
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  • I would like to hear/read of the electoral college.  I have a list, and I mean a list for republicans to choose from to vote for.  I read that communist/marxist knew how to win at the polls.  More than 2 party system.  You could have a winner at maybe 20% of votes (?) and the winner is of a minority.

    I read 10-15 years ago than Hilary would run for president and look for her to win.
    Why? Well, it was said that the HealthCare was hers.  She pushed for school clinics for contraception/abortion and vaccinations.  School clinics were founded here in Phoenix in 1987, fist school-based clinic.  Over rides pay for their operation along with many partnerships, including the New Order.

    Offline songbird

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #13 on: March 16, 2016, 11:00:47 AM »
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  • I would like to hear/read of the electoral college.  I have a list, and I mean a list for republicans to choose from to vote for.  I read that communist/marxist knew how to win at the polls.  More than 2 party system.  You could have a winner at maybe 20% of votes (?) and the winner is of a minority.

    I read 10-15 years ago than Hilary would run for president and look for her to win.
    Why? Well, it was said that the HealthCare was hers.  She pushed for school clinics for contraception/abortion and vaccinations.  School clinics were founded here in Phoenix in 1987, fist school-based clinic.  Over rides pay for their operation along with many partnerships, including the New Order.

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Well, prepare for President Clinton the second
    « Reply #14 on: March 16, 2016, 11:34:21 AM »
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  • Quote from: Charlemagne
    It's very sad that I have to quote a liberal rag like HuffPo to make my point, but here it is. Even they see the writing on the wall: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/musa-algharbi/the-dnc-is-about-to-coronate-donald-trump_b_9462374.html


    Quote from: quote

    Polling Doesn't Matter

    I know, here people are going to say "Look at the polls! They show Hillary winning against Trump!" But there are three big issues here:

    First, polling more than six months prior to a race is not terribly predictive in general.

    Second, Trump has consistently confounded polls and projections that predicted he could never win (ditto for Sanders, for that matter). Ceteris paribus, there is no reason to believe these dynamics would fundamentally change in the general election: Trump has been antifragile -- rising ever-higher despite (in many respects because of) scandals and gaffes that would have ruined most campaigns. The ridiculous amounts of money being spent on negative ads against him in critical states seem to be totally wasted.

    Third, there are currently six candidates in the race, and the hope that another candidate may ultimately win the nomination affects how people perceive theoretical head-to-head matchups. When the only possible candidates are Trump v. Clinton, the public is going to break towards Trump.

    Here's why:

    Delegate Map, Clinton v. Trump

    Again, what matters in a general election is who wins swing states and who turns out their base. So let's see how things look in a head-to-head between Clinton and Trump:

    Remember the five out of six swing states that Hillary either decisively lost or tied in? Four of these have voted on the Republican side, and Trump handily won half of them (New Hampshire, Nevada). Remember the only swing state that Clinton decisively won (Virginia)? Trump carried that one was well -- and again, it broke for Romney in 2012. Remember how Hillary has won primarily in solidly-red states in the south during the Democratic primary? Guess who carried all of these rather decisively on the Republican side, and often with record turnout? That's right, Donald Trump.

    That is, Trump is likely to decisively beat Clinton in virtually all of the states that she has performed strongly in so far, and seems poised to win many of the states she lost as well. This leaves her relying heavily on the solidly blue states, which overwhelmingly voted against her in the primaries, suggesting that enthusiasm will not be high with her base. Forget national polling. When one takes a sober look at the electoral map -- at who can turn out their base in solidly partisan states and appeal in swing states, based on how the primaries have turned out thus far, the edge is cleanly with Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton.

    But it gets worse:

    Trump has a large and passionate base. And while many Republicans are not comfortable with Trump, they passionately hate Hillary Clinton -- and faced with such a stark choice, most would vote for Trump if only to deny Clinton the White House. Reports of Republican elites who say they'd vote for Hillary over Trump are more-or-less meaningless in terms of indicating how most voters will perform: the entire Trump phenomena is a testament to how far out of touch these party elites are with their voting base. Make no mistake: Republicans will rally around Trump (or against Clinton), and they will turn out in large numbers to do so.

    The same cannot be said on the other side:

    A large number of Democrats cannot bring themselves to vote for Hillary Clinton under any circuмstances -- and while many of these are unlikely to vote for Trump, they may well stay home on Election Day. This scenario would itself be damning for Clinton's candidacy: Democrats rely heavily on uncharacteristically-large left-leaning turnout in presidential election years to win national races. Absent this, they stand no chance--particularly in light of the advantage Trump already seems to have in swing states and with his base.

    But the reality of the matter is that many Sanders supporters will not only abstain, they will actually vote for Trump if Hillary wins the nomination. For some, it would be a vote to punish the DNC for its anti-Democratic coronation of Clinton (via the superdelegates). For others, it'd be a nihilistic act: an attempt to burn down the establishment, or to give America "the candidate it deserves."

    But from exit polling we know that many others, particularly in swing states with open primaries, were legitimately torn between Sanders and Trump as the best candidate to direct their anti-establishment sentiment. And if Sanders loses the Democratic nomination, those who voted for him for this reason would not turn around and vote for someone like Hillary Clinton in a general election -- they would vote for Trump. And to top it all off, there are a number of other Democrats who staunchly support the Donald over all the other candidates regardless--in fact, they are an important component of his support base.

    All of this bodes ill for Hillary Clinton in a general election.

    Why Clinton Can't Win

    Sanders is dominating the blue states and swing states. Trump is dominating the red states and swing states. The takeaway should be clear: The American people in general, and particularly the states that will decide this election, do not want an establishment candidate. A Trump v. Clinton race could play out much like Ronald Reagan v. Bush Sr., Carter and Mondale: races where people with the "right"
    resumes failed to connect with the public -- losing handily to a contender who seemed far less qualified or competent, and perhaps even dangerous, but who really "gets" the times we're living in and what people are looking for in this moment.

    Bernie Sanders can beat Donald Trump, possibly taking the House and Senate with him. Hillary Clinton can do none of these things. Polls be damned: if Hillary Clinton wins the Democratic nomination, Donald Trump will win the presidency. Count on it.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...