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Author Topic: Voting for Trump?  (Read 23904 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Voting for Trump?
« Reply #285 on: November 08, 2016, 11:43:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: Alexandria
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    I voted this morning in Ohio ... for Trump (along with other local candidates).



     :applause:



    Unfortunately, I have little hope that my vote will mean anything once the electronic vote-counting machines kick in.  I had one of those paper ballots where you fill in the bubbles by pen and then insert them into an optical scanning machine.  I inserted the ballot and it just said "Ballot Accepted."  I asked the poll worker if I could get a printed confirmation of who it claims I voted for, and he said, "No.  If it said accepted, you're good to go."  To quote Father Schmidberger, "I'm not so sure as you are." [thick German accent]  For all I know, it magically "scanned" my Trump bubble as a vote for Hillary or Jill Stein or Mickey Mouse for that matter.

    Quote from: Joe Stalin
    Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #286 on: November 08, 2016, 11:50:06 AM »
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  • If they get caught (which is unlikely without a printout), they can just claim that the optical machine was not properly "calibrated" and so misread the location of a Trump bubble as being the location of the Hillary bubble.  They'll hang some low-level poll-worker peon out to dry for not having properly gotten the machine serviced.

    And, then, of course, when all the results of the local scanning machine are sent to the central tabulation computer, all kinds of fancy "addition" algorithms can be applied ... to rig it only as much as needed to put Hillary over the top.  They siphon some Trump votes off to third parties, sometimes just magically add totals to Hillary, or apply some slight multiplication factors, tilting it JUST enough to put Hillary over the top.  In 2012, in several districts in Ohio, near Cleveland, Romney got ZERO votes, while Obama got more votes than the total number of registered voters in Ohio.  These were heavily Black neighborhoods, so they figured they could get away with this crap without causing too much suspicion.


    Offline Matto

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #287 on: November 08, 2016, 11:52:48 AM »
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  • I just voted for Trump and for the candidate running against Schumer. I also voted for another person, I forget who.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #288 on: November 08, 2016, 12:03:48 PM »
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  • If Hillary wins, then I'll probably spend the first couple hours of the day throwing up.  Between having to see that demon in charge of the country and also to watch her First Lady Bill back in the White House, with his syphilis-addled brain ... I think it's about all I'll be able to take.  I almost feel like renouncing my US citizenship and moving to Hungary (I have citizenship there as well, even though I was born in the US, since Hungarian citizenship transmits by blood and not birthplace ... my kids have it too).  At least the Hungarians are fighting the globalists and IMF and Soros and the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.

    Offline Nishant

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #289 on: November 08, 2016, 12:08:26 PM »
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  • Quote
    Just to be clear, the magnitude of Hillary's evilness (which no one here can dispute and most of us probably even underestimate) has nothing to do with double effect.


    Well, yes and no. Magnitude is a key part of condition 3 of double effect, for e.g. if I'm deciding whether or not to strike enemy headquarters during a just war, the likely number of innocent civilians (none of whose deaths are intended, but only foreseen as inevitable, due diligence to minimize which number is absolutely mandatory) who will be collateral damage is an essential criterion. If we can strike the enemy decisively, say, kill 1000 enemy combatants per 1 innocent civilian who unfortunately perishes while the war ends as soon as possible, instead of many lives being lost through no one repelling the unjust aggressor, as the Popes hoped in launching the Crusades while the Turks were unjustly attacking Christians and churches, it will be lawful to accept that unintended secondary effect. But if, as modern тαℓмυdic Israel does, we kill 10 combatants and 1000 civilians - taking no effort whatsoever to mitigate that consequence and therefore morally responsible for it - that's manifestly illicit and a grave violation of the proportionality necessary for double effect to apply. That's what I meant by magnitude of evil.

    I see what you're getting at, though, Lad, you mean we can't directly and intentionally target a single innocent civilian if this would save 1000s of lives, which is absolutely true. So, even if directly targeting 10 innocent babies for killing in an orphanage on enemy territory would utterly demoralize and terrorize them into surrendering, it would never ever be lawful to intend it, and to deliberately perpetrate such a heinous deed would be criminal. It would be a violation of just conduct during war - the second part to completing a war justly - even if the war was originally just to begin with, in that it was defense against an unjust agressor. This would be terrorism in the true sense. Islam, for instance, has never made and appears not to have ever comprehended that distinction, which explains why they believe anything goes during their endless jihad against the Church; while Christian theologians and philosopehrs have. Unlike ends-justifies-the-means, which as you noted, originated with Protestants and naturalists like Jeremy Bentham and other utilitarian philosophers, and in varying forms was taken first by the agnostic French revolutionists and next the godless Communists to terrible lengths, double-effect is a Thomistic principle, enjoys the official approbation of the Catholic Church, and is still enshrined in international law owing to Christianity's influence on western civilization. Its important to have our moral principles right, as decline in morals almost inevitably means decline in faith.

    Let's see how the election turns out.


    Offline Alexandria

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #290 on: November 08, 2016, 12:25:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Alexandria
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    I voted this morning in Ohio ... for Trump (along with other local candidates).



     :applause:



    Unfortunately, I have little hope that my vote will mean anything once the electronic vote-counting machines kick in.  I had one of those paper ballots where you fill in the bubbles by pen and then insert them into an optical scanning machine.  I inserted the ballot and it just said "Ballot Accepted."  I asked the poll worker if I could get a printed confirmation of who it claims I voted for, and he said, "No.  If it said accepted, you're good to go."  To quote Father Schmidberger, "I'm not so sure as you are." [thick German accent]  For all I know, it magically "scanned" my Trump bubble as a vote for Hillary or Jill Stein or Mickey Mouse for that matter.

    Quote from: Joe Stalin
    Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.


    If that is the point we are at in the USA, let's stop the sham then.  Just tell us our votes are nothing more than a smokescreen and that the election is determined before we even cast our ballot.

    The same thing with our corrupt legal system.  Rather than have two sets of law books - one for the elites and the other for the peasants - just ditch all laws.

    I don't know about you, but I am tired of being manipulated and played for an ignorant fool - both by our government and the hierarchy in the Church.

    The worst is that there is no place - not one place - to go.   The Church has let us down, what we once thought would be our havens - traditional chapels - have let us down, our country has let us down.

    We've been played for fools by everyone.

    There is only one reality left - the supernatural.  All the rest has been proven false.

    Offline stgobnait

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #291 on: November 08, 2016, 12:44:45 PM »
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  • Its the same here, you could be reading my mind, people just don't see, they actually believe they are free...

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #292 on: November 08, 2016, 01:15:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Nishant
    Quote
    Just to be clear, the magnitude of Hillary's evilness (which no one here can dispute and most of us probably even underestimate) has nothing to do with double effect.


    Well, yes and no. Magnitude is a key part of condition 3 of double effect


    Yes, except that double effect can only apply to one action in and of itself, considered discretely and absolutely in and of itself, and not relative to some other action, not a choice between multiple actions.  That's why it doesn't work for the lifeboat example.  Otherwise, you can say that you are not killing the one person but, rather, trying to keep the other nine from dying.  When one considers double-effect across multiple actions, then it's no longer double effect (one moral action with two consequences), but the choice between lesser evils (assuming they're both bad choices) and moral relativism.

    Now, since double effect most certainly does apply to voting Trump, this discussion is simply theoretical.

    I voted Trump at 6:30 AM this morning. :-)


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #293 on: November 08, 2016, 01:24:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Alexandria
    The Church has let us down, what we once thought would be our havens - traditional chapels - have let us down, our country has let us down.


    Well, the Church hasn't let us down, but I know what you mean; these imposters posing as Catholics have co-opted what appears to the world to be the Church.  But the Church is the key.  If you KNEW that 95% of all Catholics would vote only for a pro-life candidate, and internal polling among Catholics backed this up, then there's NO WAY they could manipulate elections because everyone would immediately KNOW it's fraud if a certain number of Catholics can't be accounted for in the total numbers as having voted pro life.

    Offline OHCA

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #294 on: November 08, 2016, 01:38:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    I voted this morning in Ohio ... for Trump (along with other local candidates).

    They had these optical scanners.  I have  about a 1% confidence that my vote will actually be counted and tabulated correctly ... and not rigged by the electronic voting system.  But even under those conditions I felt compelled in conscience to vote.


    I don't have much confidence in the integrity of the ballots either.  Looks to me like there's a lot of possibility for error, intentional or not.  We fill in boxes next to the candidates on a paper ballot and then scan it.  Is that the scanners that you're taking about?  I suppose there is a little more safeguard from fraud than the electronic machines we used to have because now there's a paper ballot trail.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #295 on: November 08, 2016, 01:41:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: OHCA
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    I voted this morning in Ohio ... for Trump (along with other local candidates).

    They had these optical scanners.  I have  about a 1% confidence that my vote will actually be counted and tabulated correctly ... and not rigged by the electronic voting system.  But even under those conditions I felt compelled in conscience to vote.


    I don't have much confidence in the integrity of the ballots either.  Looks to me like there's a lot of possibility for error, intentional or not.  We fill in boxes next to the candidates on a paper ballot and then scan it.  Is that the scanners that you're taking about?  I suppose there is a little more safeguard from fraud than the electronic machines we used to have because now there's a paper ballot trail.


    Yes, those machines.  Yes, there's a paper trail, but they have strict laws about when they would allow a recount from paper (only if the results are within a certain margin).  And who would verify that they counted every paper ballot in the recount anyway?


    Offline mw2016

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #296 on: November 08, 2016, 01:43:40 PM »
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  • I voted Trump!

     :rahrah:

    Offline Matthew

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #297 on: November 08, 2016, 02:23:02 PM »
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  • Just got back from voting.

    Nice small town (pop. 1000) in rural Texas. I went at 1:50 PM, when it wouldn't be busy.

    Among all the signs at the 100-foot mark, there was just one human being holding up a sign -- at the ENTRANCE to the polling place parking lot, an older gentleman holding a sign that said, "Hillary Clinton -- Lock her up!" and I gave him the thumbs up as I drove in (wearing a RED baseball cap and a RED t-shirt with a big flag on it)

    As I drove through the EXIT of the polling place, I noticed 4 Trump signs at the 100 foot mark, along with one sign that read, "If you vote for Hillary (who should be in prison...) We lose our country!"

    If only more places in the USA were like rural Texas!

    Common sense, hard work, usin' your noggin' -- and God, gold, and guns. And in rural areas, you have grains and ground (acreage) as well.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #298 on: November 08, 2016, 02:37:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Alexandria
    The Church has let us down, what we once thought would be our havens - traditional chapels - have let us down, our country has let us down.


    Well, the Church hasn't let us down, but I know what you mean; these imposters posing as Catholics have co-opted what appears to the world to be the Church.  But the Church is the key.  If you KNEW that 95% of all Catholics would vote only for a pro-life candidate, and internal polling among Catholics backed this up, then there's NO WAY they could manipulate elections because everyone would immediately KNOW it's fraud if a certain number of Catholics can't be accounted for in the total numbers as having voted pro life.


    This is an important point.

    Whose fault is it that we are ruled by a cabal of satanists? Partially the Catholics' fault. They want pride ("Yay! A woman is president!"), lust (So many women in '92 said "Oooo... Bill Clinton is so much more sexy than George Bush", covetousness ("the economy is up, at least apparently! Let's keep the Democrats in!") and so forth. And let's not forget Human Respect as a garnish on top: namely, being accepted by the politically correct world ("See? I voted for Obama. I'm not racist!", or, "See? I voted for Hillary. I'm not sexist!")

    That is why no measurable improvement is going to happen to the world without a slew of conversions to the True Faith as its foundation. The Faith comes first; everything else follows.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
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    Offline Matto

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #299 on: November 08, 2016, 02:49:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Whose fault is it that we are ruled by a cabal of satanists?

    I would blame the Catholic hierarchy of the twentieth century. They were the leaders that brought us into this mess. They were in charge when the Church was infiltrated by satanists.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.