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Author Topic: Voting for Trump?  (Read 24050 times)

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Offline RomanCatholic1953

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Voting for Trump?
« Reply #225 on: November 04, 2016, 11:26:00 AM »
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  • Mortal Sin to Vote Democratic Says San Diego Catholic Church

    I have attended Mass at the Catholic Church in Old Town San Diego.
    The Church is very conservative compared to many other novus ordo
    parishes I have attended.
    I highly recommend attending Mass at this Parish when you are in
    San Diego.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/11/04/mortal-sin-to-vote-democratic-says-san-diego-catholic-church-linking-hillary-clinton-to-satan/

    Offline Alexandria

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #226 on: November 04, 2016, 02:37:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
    Quote from: Alexandria
    Quote from: LaramieHirsch
    Bill and Hillary, it turns out, are probably pedophiles.  

    Watch half of the country vote for her anyway.







    You are right.  Half the country, and many Catholics, will vote for her anyway.

    I have made up my mind that if she wins and I find out someone voted for her, I am going to shun the person completely.  Clearly, they are not responsible citizens nor could they be playing with a full deck.


    My family is voting for her.  They shun us.


    Consider yourself fortunate.   :wink:


    Offline Alexandria

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #227 on: November 04, 2016, 02:40:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    What difference does it really make, as long as our Country okays abortion and gαy marriage plus all the other sins too many to list, our Country is sunk!  


    Our country is still salvageable.

    If she wins, she will assure it will never be again, or at least for a very, very, very long time.

    Do you want your grandchildren to live in a free country, or do you want to see them become good little marxists?

    Offline nctradcath

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #228 on: November 04, 2016, 03:11:27 PM »
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  • We are in the preparation for the time of the Antichrist. It will only get worse from here. To think otherwise is delusional.

    Offline Caraffa

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #229 on: November 04, 2016, 03:30:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: Alexandria
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    What difference does it really make, as long as our Country okays abortion and gαy marriage plus all the other sins too many to list, our Country is sunk!  


    Our country is still salvageable.

    If she wins, she will assure it will never be again, or at least for a very, very, very long time.

    Do you want your grandchildren to live in a free country, or do you want to see them become good little marxists?


    It's not just America.

    If Hillary wins and the left keeps winning, it means a Soviet USA with Europe heading towards ʝʊdɛօ-Islamic rule and no ability to stop it.

    It is no coincidence that Europe gets flooded with Muslims under Obama and before that, leftist parties/individuals win in France and Italy, and Bergoglio is elected "pope".
    Pray for me, always.


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #230 on: November 04, 2016, 08:26:07 PM »
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  • From a German Point of View:

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #231 on: November 04, 2016, 11:41:55 PM »
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  • List of Neo-Con Republicans opposing Trump and supporting Hillary:

    Because they LOVE WARS and MORE WARS for the sake of WARS.

    https://off-guardian.org/2016/11/03/list-of-republicans-opposing-trump/

    Offline Nishant

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #232 on: November 05, 2016, 04:00:25 AM »
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  • Choosing a candidate whose personal life is gravely sinful is itself a decision the effects of which need to be taken into consideration. It would not be lawful to choose an unworthy candidate when there are candidates whose lives are not mortally sinful running if their policy proposals were not drastically different, e.g. during the republican nomination. See below.  

    Someone who claims he could support Trump, but could not support a candidate like Cruz whose life was not sinful and whose policies were more or less equivalent if not more consistent, is simply mistaken. Cruz was more consistently anti-interventionist than Trump and also didn't suggest we could torture innocent families in the hope that they may provide some incriminating evidence about their relatives' link to terrorism. That's classic ends-justifies-the-means, is not licit, violates the Geneva convention, and more importantly, the teaching of the Gospel, the Angelic Doctor, and the Catholic Church. Trump is a a bad choice any way you look at it whose nomination should have been prevented. Almost any Republican with a serious record of fighting Planned Parenthood and abortion whose policies were broadly non-interventionist would be better. Cruz, or even Pence, is also more credible on appointing strong pro-life Supreme Court justices, judging based on their past record.

    Fr. Cranny says,
    Quote
    "When unworthy candidates are running for office, ordinarily a citizen does not have the obligation for voting for them. Indeed he would not be permitted to vote for them if there were any reasonable way of electing a worthy man, either by organizing another party, by using the “write in” method, or by any other lawful means. On the other hand, it would be licit to vote for an unworthy man if the choice were only between or among unworthy candidates ... Since the act of voting is good, it is lawful to vote for an unworthy candidate provided there is a proportionate cause for the evil done and the good lost. This consideration looks simply to the act of voting itself and does not consider other factors such as scandal, encouragement of unworthy men, and a bad influence upon other voters. Obviously, if any or all of these other factors are present, the excusing cause for voting for an unworthy candidate would have to be proportionally grave ...  

    As a practical point it may be remarked that at times a citizen may have to vote for an unworthy man in order to vote for a worthy one, e.g., when people have to vote a straight party ticket, at least in a primary election when the “split ticket” is not permitted. However the good to be gained would have to outweigh the evil to be avoided, or at least be equal to it. In his Casus Genicot sets up a case of an election between a liberal and a Communist. To avoid scandal the citizen should give reasons for voting for the liberal. One does not support the evil candidate but simply applies the principle of double effect."


    It is permissible to vote for Trump because Hilary is evil, because what she'll do as president is certain, very grave and a serious worsening of the common good - the importance of preventing that allows taking the step of a "holding one's nose" vote for Trump. The evil Trump stands for on gαy, lgbt rights etc should not be supported nor should even the appearance of doing so be given. It's good Trump has pledged to sign the pain capable act that prevents abortion after 20 weeks, and to nominate from a list of pro-life justices, but that's about it. Conservatives should continue to put pressure on Trump and see to it that he fulfils what he's pledged when he wins.


    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #233 on: November 06, 2016, 01:58:33 AM »
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  • Trump's great!
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline OHCA

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #234 on: November 06, 2016, 04:45:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: LaramieHirsch
    Trump's great!


    Idk--Frank & Poche have cried enough tears to turn the Rio Grande into the Atlantic Ocean because he's going to turn back werbacks.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #235 on: November 06, 2016, 06:46:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: LaramieHirsch
    Trump's great!


    That's an overstatement ... see what Nishant wrote.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #236 on: November 06, 2016, 06:53:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: Nishant
    Someone who claims he could support Trump, but could not support a candidate like Cruz whose life was not sinful and whose policies were more or less equivalent if not more consistent, is simply mistaken. Cruz was more consistently anti-interventionist than Trump and also didn't suggest we could torture innocent families in the hope that they may provide some incriminating evidence about their relatives' link to terrorism.


    That last statement is what concerns me most about Trump.  But I can still vote for him based on the principle of double-effect.  Not because Hillary is evil (that would be less-evil, end justifies the means) but because in voting for Trump one is voting for his position on Supreme Court nominees, with the unintended secondary effect of his immoral views regarding the targeting of innocent people in the "war on terror."  Some of that could just be a bunch of bluster and bravado.  Nevertheless, I disagree entirely with your assessment of Cruz.  I consider Cruz to be more hawkish when it comes to foreign policy and more inclined to start a war in the interests of a certain foreign power.  Trump has actually made some level-headed statements regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for which he was excoriated by the Jєωιѕн neo-cons.  Cruz is a Goldman-Sachs controlled globalist of the first order.  He and his father also have these bizarre religious cult views that are scary.  And, as for Cruz's life not being sinful, there have been credible reports that were suppressed by the media that Cruz has not been faithful to his wife (including recent affairs with campaign workers).  Cruz also would not be against extreme use of torture in the "war on terror".

    Offline OHCA

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #237 on: November 06, 2016, 07:28:56 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Nishant
    Someone who claims he could support Trump, but could not support a candidate like Cruz whose life was not sinful and whose policies were more or less equivalent if not more consistent, is simply mistaken. Cruz was more consistently anti-interventionist than Trump and also didn't suggest we could torture innocent families in the hope that they may provide some incriminating evidence about their relatives' link to terrorism.


    That last statement is what concerns me most about Trump.  But I can still vote for him based on the principle of double-effect.  Not because Hillary is evil (that would be less-evil, end justifies the means) but because in voting for Trump one is voting for his position on Supreme Court nominees, with the unintended secondary effect of his immoral views regarding the targeting of innocent people in the "war on terror."  Some of that could just be a bunch of bluster and bravado.  Nevertheless, I disagree entirely with your assessment of Cruz.  I consider Cruz to be more hawkish when it comes to foreign policy and more inclined to start a war in the interests of a certain foreign power.  Trump has actually made some level-headed statements regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for which he was excoriated by the Jєωιѕн neo-cons.  Trump is a Goldman-Sachs controlled globalist of the first order.  He and his father also have these bizarre religious cult views that are scary.  And, as for Cruz's life not being sinful, there have been credible reports that were suppressed by the media that Cruz has not been faithful to his wife (including recent affairs with campaign workers).  Cruz also would not be against extreme use of torture in the "war on terror".


    I am convinced that Jeb was the NWO establishment GOP Plan A, and Rubio and Cruz were Plans B/C.  Cruz's wife has a sweet high-paying gig with Goldman-Sachs (did you mean to say they control Cruz instead of Trump?).  And the way he has acted like a spoiled brat post-primary reveals that he is a POS undeserving to even so much as hold the post of dog-catcher.

    Going into the primary season, my preferences were 1) Rand Paul; 2) Cruz; 3) maybe Trump; 4) resuscitate Ronald Reagan.  Knowing what I know now, Trump would have been my first choice.  I wish there were better options--I am not deluded into thinking Trump is the greatest thing ever.  But he's the best in our pool of options and has been this entire election cycle.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #238 on: November 06, 2016, 11:23:01 AM »
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  • In my lifetime, Patrick Buchanan was my all-time favorite (not unworthy) candidate.  Alan Keyes would be a strong second (but a tad too pro-Israeli for my tastes).  Both are relatively devout and serious Catholics, even if Novus Ordo.  Patrick Buchanan has Traditionalist sympathies and has written in defense of Archbishop Lefebvre and against Pope Francis (even dropping the "heresy" term).

    After these two, Ron Paul was the least unworthy candidate.

    Offline OHCA

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    Voting for Trump?
    « Reply #239 on: November 06, 2016, 01:13:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    In my lifetime, Patrick Buchanan was my all-time favorite (not unworthy) candidate.  Alan Keyes would be a strong second (but a tad too pro-Israeli for my tastes).  Both are relatively devout and serious Catholics, even if Novus Ordo.  Patrick Buchanan has Traditionalist sympathies and has written in defense of Archbishop Lefebvre and against Pope Francis (even dropping the "heresy" term).

    After these two, Ron Paul was the least unworthy candidate.


    I agree about Buchanan and Keyes.  I had hopes of Trump picking Buchanan for VP.  Imagine how the world may be better now if Buchanan had won in '92, '96, or '00.  I had his pic cut out of the newspaper hanging in my apartment for months after his '96 NH primary victory.  Go Pat Go!