Author Topic: Voting for Trump? (Read 23896 times)

poche · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2016, 12:28:05 AM »

Quote from: Lighthouse

Quote from: poche
When Pope Francis was approached by a reporter who asked him about Trump and his wall, Pope Francis said that nobody could be that bad. He criticized the reporter and he criticized Trump's position on the wall he was talking about building. I could see an out for Trump because I think that there are invisible walls that we have built in this country that are really damaging.
However when Trump said that people of Mexican descent have no business because of who their parents might have been to advance in this country then I have to day that I don't think I could vote for him.

Big surprise there!

Would you happen to have the actual words Trump used in what you referred to?

Quote
Pope Francis said that nobody could be that bad. He criticized the reporter and he criticized Trump's position on the wall he was talking about building.

So when is Francis going to tear down the walls around the Vatican? And where has the Church taught that all walls are evil?

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t-s&p=trump+and+judge+curiel#id=1&vid=d07e3227f59ffc436f2407d238d7f4dd&action=click

OHCA · « **Reply #16 on:** October 22, 2016, 04:43:50 AM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: Cantarella
Quote from: poche
When Pope Francis was approached by a reporter who asked him about Trump and his wall, Pope Francis said that nobody could be that bad. He criticized the reporter and he criticized Trump's position on the wall he was talking about building.

Bergolio disapproves of Trump. That right there is yet another very good reason to vote for Trump.

Actually he did not make a direct . . .

Imagine that--the pansy-ass hippie wasn't "direct."

OHCA · « **Reply #17 on:** October 22, 2016, 04:47:55 AM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: Lighthouse
Quote from: poche
When Pope Francis was approached by a reporter who asked him about Trump and his wall, Pope Francis said that nobody could be that bad. He criticized the reporter and he criticized Trump's position on the wall he was talking about building. I could see an out for Trump because I think that there are invisible walls that we have built in this country that are really damaging.
However when Trump said that people of Mexican descent have no business because of who their parents might have been to advance in this country then I have to day that I don't think I could vote for him.

Big surprise there!

Would you happen to have the actual words Trump used in what you referred to?

Quote
Pope Francis said that nobody could be that bad. He criticized the reporter and he criticized Trump's position on the wall he was talking about building.

So when is Francis going to tear down the walls around the Vatican? And where has the Church taught that all walls are evil?

I think that His Holiness was talking about the invisible walls that divide us and provoke sins against love of neighbor.

Such as not wanting to take in a bunch of raping murderous mohammadeans hell-bent on converting or killing us? Or not wanting the influx of gang/thug wetbacks?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2016, 07:33:16 AM »

Quote from: JezusDeKoning

Both of them are wretched candidates.

There's a huge difference though. Clinton is absolutely horrific in terms of all her public positions. Trump is a reprobate in his personal life, rendering him that classic "unworthy candidate". What is there that would disqualify Trump from receiving the vote of a Catholic?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #19 on:** October 22, 2016, 07:34:56 AM »

Quote from: Truecharity

Trump's pro-life SCOTUS judge list is the top article in this case.

Indeed this is yuge. But even then I couldn't vote for him if he held any positions that I would find morally objectionable ... because I don't believe in the lesser of two evils voting philosophy. So I am trying to see if there's anything in his public positions that would disqualify him to receive the vote of a Catholic.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #20 on:** October 22, 2016, 07:37:53 AM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis

At this point, based on what Trump says, I don't see anything problematic.
...
I'm probably voting 3rd party just for principle's sake.

Which principle? If Trump isn't problematic, then on what principle would you vote 3rd party? Would that just be because you don't think your vote would be "moot", as you say?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #21 on:** October 22, 2016, 07:39:55 AM »

Quote from: poche

However when Trump said that people of Mexican descent have no business because of who their parents might have been to advance in this country then I have to day that I don't think I could vote for him.

Do you have an actual quote of what he said?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #22 on:** October 22, 2016, 07:42:01 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

Quote from: poche
When Pope Francis was approached by a reporter who asked him about Trump and his wall, Pope Francis said that nobody could be that bad. He criticized the reporter and he criticized Trump's position on the wall he was talking about building.

Bergolio disapproves of Trump. That right there is yet another very good reason to vote for Trump.

That definitely factors in. In the beginning, I wondered if Trump wasn't just a plant, historically having been a Hillary supporter, in there just to throw the race. But Trump appears to have made all the right enemies. In a very real sense, looking at his enemies tells me a lot about the candidate. As I said, I don't necessarily trust 100% that Trump is genuine ... given his past positions on things like abortion. He claims to have been converted and seen the light on this issue, and his SCOTUS list does look quite sound in that regard.

Cantarella · « **Reply #23 on:** October 22, 2016, 08:13:50 AM »

Quote from: OHCA

Quote from: poche
Quote from: Cantarella
Quote from: poche
When Pope Francis was approached by a reporter who asked him about Trump and his wall, Pope Francis said that nobody could be that bad. He criticized the reporter and he criticized Trump's position on the wall he was talking about building.

Bergolio disapproves of Trump. That right there is yet another very good reason to vote for Trump.

Actually he did not make a direct . . .

Imagine that--the pansy-ass hippie wasn't "direct."

Directness is a great threat in these times of political correctness and human respect, therefore, post-modern public statements are always veiled in vagueness and banality. They are made with the express motive of not offending men's sensibilities as much as possible, even at the expense of Truth.

However, actions do speak by themselves. Seeing Bergolio overwhelmingly contribute to the global Left-Wing interests favorable to the establishment of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr such as Jew-controlled mass immigration (which really, is nothing else but the genocide of the White race, under the political correct terms of "diversity" and "multiculturalism") is beyond disappointing. These politics are clearly played to completely annihilate the European countries that built the Christian civilization. In better times, we would have a very direct Papal statement forbidding all Catholics to vote for Hillary Clinton under the pain of mortal sin; but where is it nowadays?

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #24 on:** October 22, 2016, 09:14:21 AM »

Quote

Pax Vobis said:
At this point, based on what Trump says, I don't see anything problematic.
...
I'm probably voting 3rd party just for principle's sake.

Quote

Which principle? If Trump isn't problematic, then on what principle would you vote 3rd party? Would that just be because you don't think your vote would be "moot", as you say?

My principle of voting for the best candidate and not settling for a neo-con, whom I can't trust. Trump sounds great but so did George Sr and George W. Based on what he said, there's no moral issue with voting for him because he says he's against abortion (which is the only moral issue, from a voting standpoint). But does he really believe what he says? He's a salesman, so I have to say in my heart of hearts, 'I have no idea what he believes.' He doesn't have ANY voting record, so who knows??

Even if he is actually against abortion, I still don't like (or know) his views on upholding the 4th amendment, foreign policy, getting rid of the TSA, etc...basically upholding the constitution in ALL areas.

Nishant · « **Reply #25 on:** October 22, 2016, 09:28:28 AM »

Trump's SCOTUS list, the importance of ending abortion, and the fact that Hilary will certainly nominate pro-abortion justices were what Ted Cruz himself cited in saying that, while Trump wasn't his first choice, he would support him. Let's see if Trump stands by what he's said he'd do if elected. I think Cruz or even Pence would be stronger on these issues and effectively the same on others with less baggage for the liberal media to go after. It would have been nice to see at least a reformed Trump rather than an unchanged Trump but Hilary is in another category of evil altogether. So, based on the principle of double effect, it's probably justifiable to support Trump to stop Hilary.

St Ignatius · « **Reply #26 on:** October 22, 2016, 09:53:13 AM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis

My principle of voting for the best candtransgressions ot settling for a neo-con, whom I can't trust. Trump sounds great but so did George Sr and George W. Based on what he said, there's no moral issue with voting for him because he says he's against abortion (which is the only moral issue, from a voting standpoint). But does he really believe what he says?

This is simply not true... while yes, abortion is a horrendous crime, it is not the only nor is it the worst sin committed by this nation. This nation has transgressed upon the sovereignty of other nations for nearly a century now. These wars (conflicts) have destroyed entire peoples and have caused perpetual chaos and misery. Millions have perished in these unjust transgressions and how many more tens of millions displaced and their entire lives destroyed while we Americans carry on with our daily lives without any concern, at least for now.

Trump wants to stop these conflicts and try to form some peace among other nations. Hillary, on the hand, wants to "step up the game." She's already poking the "Bear" as we speak. The choice is yours.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #27 on:** October 22, 2016, 10:22:50 AM »

Quote from: Nishant

Trump's SCOTUS list, the importance of ending abortion, and the fact that Hilary will certainly nominate pro-abortion justices were what Ted Cruz himself cited in saying that, while Trump wasn't his first choice, he would support him. Let's see if Trump stands by what he's said he'd do if elected. I think Cruz or even Pence would be stronger on these issues and effectively the same on others with less baggage for the liberal media to go after. It would have been nice to see at least a reformed Trump rather than an unchanged Trump but Hilary is in another category of evil altogether. So, based on the principle of double effect, it's probably justifiable to support Trump to stop Hilary.

I'm not sure I even see this as "double effect". I see this more as "unworthy candidate". Double effect implies that voting for Trump would be the endorsement of some evil. I don't see that in his current positions. Now, could he surprise us and not be what he claims? Yes. But that's more of a prudential judgment than a matter of principle. Similarly, I don't really believe that our votes count. I believe that the vote counters manipulate the numbers and then select whomever they want. But I don't have 100% proof of that, so I have to proceed as if that were not the case.

OHCA · « **Reply #28 on:** October 22, 2016, 10:23:11 AM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis

Quote
Pax Vobis said:
At this point, based on what Trump says, I don't see anything problematic.
...
I'm probably voting 3rd party just for principle's sake.

Quote
Which principle? If Trump isn't problematic, then on what principle would you vote 3rd party? Would that just be because you don't think your vote would be "moot", as you say?

Even if he is actually against abortion, I still don't like (or know) his views on upholding the 4th amendment, foreign policy, getting rid of the TSA, etc...basically upholding the constitution in ALL areas.

NWO issues are what has the Democraps and the establishment Republicans united in their hatred of Donald Trump, and these matters you reference are significant cogs in those NWO policies. That alone signals to me a very compelling clue where he stands. We have some pretty good hints about his foreign policy. Being the world's protector and police department has been our excuse for a lot of the bs we have gotten ourselves into, and Trump has taken a stance against that by saying these other countries are responsible for their own protection.

2 more things. 1) We know for sure that Hillary is evil on these issues. I would rather blindly roll the dice (not that that's what I think a vote for Trump amounts to) than to get the sure evil of Hillary. 2) The SCOTUS has very much to do with the matters you reference too. So look for clues from his list of potential justices.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #29 on:** October 22, 2016, 10:27:12 AM »

Quote from: St Ignatius

Quote from: Pax Vobis

My principle of voting for the best candtransgressions ot settling for a neo-con, whom I can't trust. Trump sounds great but so did George Sr and George W. Based on what he said, there's no moral issue with voting for him because he says he's against abortion (which is the only moral issue, from a voting standpoint). But does he really believe what he says?

This is simply not true... while yes, abortion is a horrendous crime, it is not the only nor is it the worst sin committed by this nation. This nation has transgressed upon the sovereignty of other nations for nearly a century now. These wars (conflicts) have destroyed entire peoples and have caused perpetual chaos and misery. Millions have perished in these unjust transgressions and how many more tens of millions displaced and their entire lives destroyed while we Americans carry on with our daily lives without any concern, at least for now.

Trump wants to stop these conflicts and try to form some peace among other nations. Hillary, on the hand, wants to "step up the game." She's already poking the "Bear" as we speak. The choice is yours.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. So, for instance, if Trump came across as a war-monger, at the behest of the Rothschilds and the Jews, ready to wage unjust wars ... then I couldn't vote for him despite his favorable position on abortion. But Trump SEEMS to be on the correct side of that issue as well. Now, who knows what'll ACTUALLY happen if/when he assumes office, but his rhetoric sounds more like a "mind your own business" nationalistic, if not slightly isolationist viewpoint.