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Author Topic: The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.  (Read 2645 times)

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Offline NishantXavier

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The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.
« on: October 19, 2024, 11:32:07 AM »
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    • Overturning Roe v Wade is not only a huge win for US Catholics. It is also victory for Catholics and prolifers around the globe. Here is a liberal site bemoan and lament how the Dobbs victory resounds in Europe and even in Africa.

    https://www.msichoices.org/latest/the-global-impact-of-overturning-roe-v-wade/

    "On 24th June 2022, the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade, removing the right to abortion in the US. A right to healthcare that women believed they could rely on was suddenly stripped away from them.
    Abortion is now banned in 14 US states. ...

    And two years on from the Supreme Court decision, women and girls around the world are suffering at the hands of an emboldened global anti-rights movement. 
    In the UK, there has been a significant increase in the number of anti-rights protestors harassing women attending our clinics. Team members have been called “murderers” as they come into work, those attending clinics have been handed plastic foetuses as they enter, and protestors have been known to physically block people’s entrance to abortion centres ...
    The UK branch of the US-based right-wing Christian lobby group, Alliance Defending Freedom, which wants abortion to be banned, has more than doubled its spending since 2020. This year, they reportedly spent almost £1 million with the aim of influencing UK MPs ahead of a historic vote on abortion law reform ...
    Along with campaigning for women to continue being criminalised, anti-rights campaigners have also been fighting to roll back the legal time limit for abortion and ban the provision of abortion pills via telephone consultation. Before the election was called, MPs had tabled amendments on these issues and they had been moved to a vote – the law could have been changed with barely any public scrutiny.  
    In countries in Africa too, anti-rights groups have become more organised, sophisticated and well-funded by their US counterparts in the last two years ...

    In Kenya, anti-abortion groups highlighted the overturning of Roe v Wade as a reason to appeal a 2022 constitutional court decision expanding abortion access. And in Lagos state, Nigeria, the policy guidelines on abortion care for life-threatening health conditions were suspended, less than a month after Roe v Wade was overturned ..."

    Article continues in the link. For good or ill, the US has huge global and international influence everywhere. Save America, save the world. If prolifers win in the US, and we will, in a short time after that, maybe 10 years on, we win globally. The facts and stats docuмented in the link and the bemoaning of liberals leaves little doubt about it.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.
    « Reply #1 on: October 19, 2024, 02:14:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: MarkM on October 19, 2024, 11:32:07 AM
    Overturning Roe v Wade is not only a huge win for US Catholics. It is also victory for Catholics and prolifers around the globe.

    :facepalm:  There was no "huge win".  Dobbs was an unmitigated disaster.
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    Offline Valentine

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    Re: The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.
    « Reply #2 on: October 19, 2024, 03:09:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 19, 2024, 02:14:00 PM
    :facepalm:  There was no "huge win".  Dobbs was an unmitigated disaster.
    The right sometimes suffers from the same magical thinking with abortion as the left does with gun control.
    They believe that another law will stem the mayhem in the streets of Chicago or prevent another mass shooting.
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    Offline NishantXavier

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    Re: The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.
    « Reply #3 on: October 20, 2024, 11:56:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 19, 2024, 02:14:00 PM
    :facepalm:  There was no "huge win".  Dobbs was an unmitigated disaster.
    Sigh. My friend, for once in your life, have a little humility, give up your preconceived notions, and actually read what pro-abort liberals are saying. If you were right, and it was as you say, pro-abort liberals would be dancing in the street and rejoicing over Dobbs. Rather they are in tears, lamenting their loss, and our victory. I am being kind in saying "our" when in point of fact that victory strictly speaking only belongs to those who voted for and supported Trump-Pence and now support Trump-Vance in completing the task. Here's to praying/hoping you awake from your blindness and do the right thing in time. If not, others will, and the pro life cause will move full steam ahead.

    Next stop: a 15 week federal ban. 2 more pro life supreme court justices. After that, a 6 week federal ban. 2 more pro life supreme court justices. Then a life at conception act, personhood amendment, and supreme court unilaterally declaring unborn children are full legal persons and thus enjoy complete right to life under the 14th amendment. 
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.
    « Reply #4 on: October 20, 2024, 03:16:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: MarkM on October 20, 2024, 11:56:30 AM
    Sigh. My friend, for once in your life, have a little humility, give up your preconceived notions, and actually read what pro-abort liberals are saying. If you were right, and it was as you say, pro-abort liberals would be dancing in the street and rejoicing over Dobbs. Rather they are in tears, lamenting their loss, and our victory. 
    Karli Bonne’ 🇺🇸 on X: "The two pro-life protesters that were mocked at the hαɾɾιs rally in WI were interviewed this morning on Fox & Friends weekend https://t.co/Y4H0Aoo44o" / X

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.
    « Reply #5 on: October 20, 2024, 03:43:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: MarkM on October 20, 2024, 11:56:30 AM
    Sigh. My friend, for once in your life, have a little humility, give up your preconceived notions, and actually read what pro-abort liberals are saying.

    Use your brain evey once in a while, would you?  Apart from the practical matter that shows abortions continuing at the same pace (same numbers) after Dobbs, Dobbs is a complete disaster because it implicitly holds that unborn children do not have an unalienable God-given right to life, since, if they did, it would be protected under the Constitution and no state could legislate it away.  SCOTUS had an opportunity (with a majority "Catholic") to declare the actual Right to Life.  So now it's going to make it THAT MUCH MORE difficult to outlaw abortion.  Now we'll need to get justices that have the cajones to overturn Dobbs and take that "right" way from states to lesgislate away unborn life, which will never happen, naturally speaking ... until God intervenes.  Of course, it'll never be outlawed in the Blue State, and in fact the Leftists redoubled their efforts so that states like Ohio that were on the verge of outlawing abortion somehow now established abortion as a "right" in the Constitution.  And if it actually becomes a problem for some Leftists in Red States (and they haven't been more careful to use the abortion pill immediately after engaging in activities that might require an abortion), and if they can't simply travel to a state where it's legal (or their employer won't pay for it), they can always move to a Blue State.

    You guys have to use your brains and realize that ideas and principles matter, not just the outcome but the reasons for the outcome.  When you have various politicians (including Trump/Vance) claiming that abortion should be banned except in certain cases (life of mother, incese, rape), you're actually surrendering the basis for your argument.  If those are lives, the fact that the mother was victimized by rape and incest doesn't make it so we can exstinguish those lives.  When you say junk like that, you're implicitly declaring that those unborn children are not lives and do not have the right to live.

    When you surrender your principles for a dubious short-term tactical gain (and the tactical gain here was dubious at best), you're losing the war by giving way on your principles.  Every single time.  This is where your ends justifies the means and utilitarian / moral relativism manifests itself for being the trash that it is ... and you're also compromising Catholicism in the process.
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    Offline VivaJesus

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    Re: The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.
    « Reply #6 on: October 20, 2024, 04:24:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 20, 2024, 03:43:13 PM
    You guys have to use your brains and realize that ideas and principles matter, not just the outcome but the reasons for the outcome.

    ...

    When you surrender your principles for a dubious short-term tactical gain (and the tactical gain here was dubious at best), you're losing the war by giving way on your principles.  Every single time.  This is where your ends justifies the means and utilitarian / moral relativism manifests itself for being the trash that it is ... and you're also compromising Catholicism in the process.
    ^This is how a Catholic thinks. "Behold an israelite indeed, in whom there is no guile" Our Lord would say.

    OP reminds me of TV news in the communist country where I grew up. The delusional triumphalism, the (possibly made up) statistics that supposedly show that whatever goal was achieved, a sense of assurance of more future wins... This is how you sound OP:
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    "Blessed is the simplicity which leaveth alone the difficult paths of questionings, and followeth the plain and firm steps of God’s commandments." - The Imitation of Christ

    Offline NishantXavier

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    Re: The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.
    « Reply #7 on: October 20, 2024, 10:46:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus
    SCOTUS had an opportunity (with a majority "Catholic") to declare the actual Right to Life.


    While I'm sure it felt satisfying to put "Catholic" in scare quotes, that does not accomplish anything. Overturning Roe enabled 14 states to effectively ban abortion. That's a huge victory. Now, sufficient numbers also need to be convinced of the truth of the pro-life cause, and then more states will ban or restrict abortion. 2 more pro-life supreme court justices are certainly possible in the next term, and probably 4 or 5 in the next 8-12 years. Once there are sufficient pro life justices on the court, and abortion cases certainly will keep being referred to the supreme court, so there will be no dearth of opportunity, then the supreme court can declare unborn children are full legal persons entitled to the right to life guaranteed to all persons by the 14th amendment. 14 states. 14th amendment. Keep it in mind. Thats the pro life strategy of Trump supporters. I'm still waiting for anything resembling a "strategy" from those saying "let's do nothing for the next 4 years at least, or maybe even 8 or 12 yrs". Is that a strategy? It has zero chance of success. Ours has a much better one, and it shows the gamble of supporting Trump in 16 paid off.

    Go on the record. What was your stance about supporting Trump in 16 and 20? Was it the same "lets do nothing" as in 2024? We will come back and review your stance and its results in 2028, 2032 and 2036. You can review mine too. My stance was to support Trump in 2016, because I knew 2 to 3 supreme court justices were likely in his term, as indeed proved to be the case, and also to support Trump in 2020, because I knew Roe v Wade would surely be overturned if he got back into office. Turns out, even without him needing to get back in, RvW was overturned anyway. Lets work together, friends, we pro lifers are on the same side and should be working for the same end goal.
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    Offline NishantXavier

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    Re: The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.
    « Reply #8 on: October 20, 2024, 10:56:05 PM »
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    • One more thing.

    Here's the scenario: a million children are dying in a burning building a year.

    Strategy A: "Do nothing". 10-12 million children at least will die in the building in the next 10-12 years.

    Strategy B: Keep rolling the ball forward and trying to save more and more children each year. Even if we end up saving only 50% of children, say even with a heartbeat bill with a few exceptions, that's still 5-6 million children saved. And if we get more, like a life at conception act, personhood amendment, or the 14th amendment thing I mentioned, that's more, maybe 75% or 80% of childrens/babies lives saved, not to mention the millions more that will be saved in the future beyond 10-12 yrs. Meanwhile with the lazy "do nothing"ism of strategy A, none of that will get accomplished. None of it.

    Archbishop Lefebvre had no patience for just "angels on a pin" speculations. He was a man of practical action. We should be the same. Done is better than perfect. Get things done, and keep pushing forward. Yes, we agree that in the end, ultimate abolition is the end goal. But Rome wasn't built in a day. And this can't be done in a day either.
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.
    « Reply #9 on: October 21, 2024, 12:49:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 19, 2024, 02:14:00 PM
    :facepalm:  There was no "huge win".  Dobbs was an unmitigated disaster.
    You are absolutely right, especially because most metro areas in a state where it is illegal... border a state where it is not. So there is nothing stopping people, most of whom in those areas make their living in one state and live in another where the laws are different. 
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    Offline NishantXavier

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    Re: The global implications of overturning Roe v Wade.
    « Reply #10 on: October 21, 2024, 01:13:32 AM »
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    • A 15 week federal ban on abortion would stop all abortions beyond that time in all 50 states without exception. Work to get that done next. That's the next logical step. 60 votes in the senate are the key.
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