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Author Topic: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances  (Read 8623 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2024, 03:08:24 PM »
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  • So, Mr. So-called Pro-Life affirms taxpayers paying for IVF. 

    I thought about this when I heard a sermon by a traditional Catholic priest today pointing out that one party is pro-abortion.  Why doesn't he also bring up the fact that the other party wishes to do this?
    I think Vance is ignorant about IVF, not pro-abortion.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #46 on: September 08, 2024, 03:56:54 PM »
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  • Some of the Trump Train folk have this perception that if Kamala wins, we get Khmer Rouge 2.0 or something. Can you criticize your government freely? Can the press? Is there independent media and private enterprise? Then you don't live in a communist anything. Grow up. Everlast is right
    Are you not aware of the Jan 6 prisoners, many of whom never entered the People's House, none of whom were violent (violence was done by alphabet police trying to create a riot i.e. Bill Eps and cops who used tear gas and other non-lethal weapons against innocent bystanders and killed an unarmed woman without cause -- she was the only person killed that day). Since Jan 6 2020, they're still in prison without due process and without needed medical care.

    Also Trump and his supporters have been charged with phony crimes and some have been unjustly imprisoned or are facing unjust imprisonment for bookeeping errors, smoke and mirrors faciliatated by media lies.

    People praying peacefully in front of baby-killing facilities are routinely being imprisoned.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #47 on: September 08, 2024, 04:00:49 PM »
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  • why don't you consider for a moment how the Epistle for the 15th Sunday after Pentecost might apply to the topic in question? Please, for the good of your own soul, do try to think more than you type. It would help.
    Had you done so yourself, Soubirous, you would not have posted these uncharitable words. Also see "the log in your own eye."
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #48 on: September 08, 2024, 06:14:32 PM »
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  • No Catholic can with good conscience cast a ballot for Trump at this point.
    I’m not voting.  I’m a Catholic who chooses Jesus Christ. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Geremia

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    Pius X supported Maurras. Catholics must support Trump.
    « Reply #49 on: September 08, 2024, 11:20:52 PM »
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  • No Catholic can with good conscience cast a ballot for Trump at this point.

    Pope St. Pius X supported Action Française, thus Catholics can support Trump.
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #50 on: September 08, 2024, 11:22:07 PM »
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  • Correction:
    I’m not voting.  I’m a CatholicJehovah's Witness who chooses Jesus Christ.
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #51 on: September 08, 2024, 11:57:11 PM »
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  • Not voting is just as fine. Even in competitive states.

    You're in Arizona; you probably can't go very far without seeing an ad or lawn sign for either Ruben Gallego or Kari Lake. You've been told it's one of the most competitive races in the country-- that is true. Even you do not have to vote.
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #52 on: September 09, 2024, 06:01:21 AM »
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  • I think Vance is ignorant about IVF, not pro-abortion.
    I find this hard to believe, and I would have to see evidence for this.  Conservative, pro-life Novus Ordos aren't ignorant about IVF.


    Offline B from A

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #53 on: September 09, 2024, 08:22:12 AM »
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  • I find this hard to believe, and I would have to see evidence for this.  Conservative, pro-life Novus Ordos aren't ignorant about IVF.

    Not to mention, if he is ignorant about it, he needs to inform himself about it, and he has no business supporting it politically until he researches it.  If he's just an ignoramus (as the poster to whom 2V is responding said), why is he running for such high office?  A politician has a duty to be well-informed of the policies he supports, let-alone a so-called Catholic politician. 

    Offline josh987654321

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #54 on: September 09, 2024, 08:50:33 AM »
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  • I’m not voting.  I’m a Catholic who chooses Jesus Christ.

    Okay... your vote has been disenfranchised so much already due to the various ways they can rig it (mass undocuмented immigration, mail in ballots, erroneous systems etc)... but that's fine, because eventually you won't be able to vote at all... then it doesn't matter what you choose. I bet the powers that be must love it when people like yourself renounce your vote before it's even been taken away from you yet. Makes their job so much easier.

    Ironic too, given the whole point of the American Revolution was because you didn't have any representation... and now your so demoralized that you give it up voluntarily.

    Of course, I don't attack you for being so demoralized, that was the whole point and there is a lot to be demoralized about (also a lot to be energized about too but you don't see that)... nevertheless, you've already lost with such an attitude you just don't know it yet. At the end of the day someone is going to win that election... you can sit out being so demoralized or you can at least try to find the best pathway forward and try to heal the Country one small step at a time. The choice is yours but if you don't vote you should not complain when you are totally outnumbered and surrounded... might happen anyway but at least I can say I tried.

    Then they can reinstate Roe v Wade (among so much more)... because who cares what you think? You don't vote...

    Same thing with the Catholic Church... Pope Benedict XVI was so easy to depose... the 'liberal' or 'modernist' factions wanted him gone and the 'traditional' factions were already split up and divided so much. Maybe you think he deserved it because they allowed the errors of Vatican II... It's been going downhill for some time... it's been over 59 years since Vatican II and even before that... now you've got Bergoglio and it will keep going until you learn how to get it together... or you see just how bad things can get. 

    You will never go from Bergoglio to pre-Vatican II overnight... you will not have the perfect 'Pope' come down from Heaven... No, it must be worked out through incremental perseverance, like everything in life. The alternative is that you want to go out backwards... which means Nuclear War where as Our Lady of Akita says, the living will envy the dead and if your a masochist you should know that it will spare neither the good nor the bad.

    In the French Revolution, yes Robespierre eventually got his head cut off, but so did the Martyrs of Compiegne and many other Catholics... it didn't have to get to that point. The Vendee likewise by taking matters into their own hands did not succeed in their endeavour... King Louis XIV was the one who was supposed to heed the Sacred Heart in battle... but he failed to do so. 

    "For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world"

    God Bless

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #55 on: September 09, 2024, 09:56:53 AM »
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  • Had you done so yourself, Soubirous, you would not have posted these uncharitable words. Also see "the log in your own eye."

    Below is the substantive set of questions (emphasis added) from that much longer post back on September 2nd, from which you selectively pasted only the last lines. I bring it back here to refocus on that "topic in question".


    Quote
    With your panoramic views of history, have you yet researched the United States 10th Amendment to the Constitution and the wording of the Dobbs decision? If you haven't, then you have no idea about which you speak. The US Republican Party at the top views abortion tactically, not morally.

    And what you label as "his" base of pro-lifers isn't "his". As if questions of traditional Catholic morality first need to ask permission of a handful of cynical operatives in a US election year.

    Lots of other important social and economic issues are shoved onto the back burner since (((they've))) discovered that muh reproductive rights! is one of the easiest ways to push buttons and distract and control and rile people up on both the so-called right and the left. (And if you don't understand who "they" are, then you still have a lot of work to do.)

    Please further explain who is this "you" that is being played. Everyone on CathInfo? Any American voter who isn't buying this game, such as those who know plenty about Trump up close from NYC going back to the 1970s, including his close mentorship by Roy Cohn

    These are serious considerations for voters in the USA. These are not bandwagon issues decided based on the urge toward human respect or the hectoring of a faraway poster who writes despite unfamiliarity with actual conditions on the ground here, not only in this election season but prior decades too. To the extent he's willing to learn beyond his seemingly sincere eagerness, all well and good.

    Here is what Pope St. Pius X said about charity in Our Apostolic Mandate, his 1910 Encyclical dealing with these very questions of politics and society:
    Quote
    "Catholic doctrine tells us that the primary duty of charity does not lie in the toleration of false ideas, however sincere they may be, nor in the theoretical or practical indifference towards the errors and vices in which we see our brethren plunged."

    The section of Galatians from the Epistle of the 15th Sunday after Pentecost does begin with encouragements to virtue. Yet it also includes the following:
    Quote
    Be not deceived, God is not mocked. 8 For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap. For he that soweth in his flesh, of the flesh also shall reap corruption. But he that soweth in the spirit, of the spirit shall reap life everlasting. 9 And in doing good, let us not fail. For in due time we shall reap, not failing.

    Again, not bandwagon issues to be decided for the sake of conformity and placating the loudest voices of this world. It's easy to toss around accusations of lack of charity. It's less easy to deal with the substance of what's at stake.

    Remember too that we'll reap in due time, i.e., on Our Lord's time, not at our demand.

    Given that these are matters of conscience to be decided in private by each American voter according to particular circuмstances in each of the fifty states (setting aside for now real questions as to fraud), might it not be prudent, and charitable too, to refrain both from insisting how others must vote as well as from passing moral judgment on anyone not in lockstep with your opinion? 
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #56 on: September 09, 2024, 10:35:59 AM »
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  • I’m not voting.  I’m a Catholic who chooses Jesus Christ.

    THIS ^^^

    Those of you who vote Trump will be formal accomplices in the death of each unborn child destroyed by the IVF process that Trump is promising to fund.  Pretending to wash your hands like Pilate (aka hold your nose while pulling the lever) won't change that fact.

    Offline B from A

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #57 on: September 09, 2024, 12:47:06 PM »
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  • Quote
    Vance replied: “On the question of the abortion pill, what so many of us have said is that: Look, the Supreme Court made a decision that the American people should have access to that medication.  Donald Trump has supported that opinion.  I support that opinion.  I think it’s important to say that we actually have to have an important conversation in this country about what our abortion policy should be.”


    Welker later asked Vance about mifepristone, one of the two abortion pills.

    “But just to be clear: You support mifepristone being accessible?” Welker pressed him.

    “Yes, Kristen, I do,” Vance replied.


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #58 on: September 09, 2024, 01:16:05 PM »
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  • I’m not voting.  I’m a Catholic who chooses Jesus Christ.
    What a coincidence! I'm a Catholic voting against Kommie Kamela because I serve Jesus Christ.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #59 on: September 09, 2024, 01:21:43 PM »
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  • might it not be prudent, and charitable too, to refrain both from insisting how others must vote as well as from passing moral judgment on anyone not in lockstep with your opinion?
    This is exactly the point I was making to you about your post which appeared to be passing moral judgement on someone not in lockstep with your opinion.

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