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Author Topic: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances  (Read 8832 times)

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Offline Soubirous

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Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2024, 09:47:10 AM »
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  • ZeroD, because he never ran as a culture warrior and avoided the left’s traps to focus on bigger issues. That he may not have succeeded on those issues is one thing, but falling for these attacks on him does us no good. That’s why the whole “I feel betrayed by Trump” over this comes off as fake and gαy.

    Unqualified agreement with the last sentence.

    Qualified agreement with the first and second sentences, but only to point out errors in perception of what happened and is happening.

    The Don has always had a preternatural ability to sniff out paths to personal advantage. He didn't run as a culture warrior, but he did sense that he could manipulate and ride on an obvious and growing wave of anger and disgust.

    Falling for attacks on him is indeed a distraction and a waste of energy, and that's exactly what the uniparty wants us to do.

    Yet he willingly feeds it so that his blinded supporters identify with his victimhood and can't focus their attention on anything else, especially not the real truth as to the source of the rot so obvious everywhere. Trump Bible? Trump as reality-show Court TV underdog? Trump as ersatz savior? (Just look at some of the blasphemous memes the froggers unironically love to post nonstop.) The left is laughing at it. 

    If Trump does win again, it'll be because the worldings (answering to the prince of this world) know it's a necessary step in their trajectory. Whether or not Trump realizes he's their gamepiece is his problem, not mine.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #16 on: April 10, 2024, 10:09:31 AM »
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  • while claiming to be “to the right of Trump” because you’re not solid on immigration and race. 
    [...]
    The dissident/alt-right already laid out the plan to end abortion in the long run

    1: With that high a post count, it's not like you're new around here....

    2: Please 'splain that mighty plan (or provide URL'd redirection), since we're so addled. Which dissident/alt-right might that be? If it's a pagan sandbox that doesn't recognize Christ the King, if it's a 5 Solas echo chamber, hey, you can keep it.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus


    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #17 on: April 10, 2024, 01:54:41 PM »
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  • Trump, Kari Lake, et al. are all RINOs/demagogues, not principled.

    One RINO representative in Arizona said it's legislating from the bench! (The purpose of the legislature is to interpret law and its applicability! It didn't create a new law!)
    Another RINO said he's not a woman and can't judge.
    U.S. Senate candidate Kari Lake said:
    Quote
    As your Senator, I will OPPOSE:
    – Federal funding for abortion
    – Federal ban(s) on abortion
    As your Senator, I will FIGHT FOR: 
    – Baby Bonuses
    – Making adoption more accessible and affordable
    – Strengthening the economy so that Mothers can AFFORD a baby
    – Protecting IVF
    – Extending the child tax credit
    – Paid family leave
    – Investing in childcare
    What a disgrace!
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    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #18 on: April 10, 2024, 05:17:48 PM »
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  • Update today

    "Former President Donald Trump on Wednesday said he would not sign a national abortion ban if reelected to the office of the presidency in November. 
    The Republican presidential candidate was at an event in Atlanta on Wednesday when a reporter asked him: 
    'Would you sign a national abortion ban if Congress sent it to your desk?' 
    'No,' Trump said in response. 
    Asked by the reporter: “You wouldn’t sign it?” Trump responded again: “No.' "

    Clear enough yet?


    Quote
    Trump says he will not sign a national abortion ban if reelected
    By Daniel Payne
    CNA Staff, Apr 10, 2024 / 14:20 pm

    Former President Donald Trump on Wednesday said he would not sign a national abortion ban if reelected to the office of the presidency in November. 

    The Republican presidential candidate was at an event in Atlanta on Wednesday when a reporter asked him: “Would you sign a national abortion ban if Congress sent it to your desk?” 

    “No,” Trump said in response. 

    Asked by the reporter: “You wouldn’t sign it?” Trump responded again: “No.”

    Trump had minutes earlier indicated that he disagreed with this week’s historic ruling at the Arizona Supreme Court. That court on Monday ruled that state law does not guarantee a right to an abortion and that an 1864 law prohibiting all abortions can take effect later this month.

    Asked in Atlanta on Wednesday if that ruling “went too far,” Trump responded: “Yeah they did, and that will be straightened out.”
    “I’m sure that the governor and everybody else are going to bring it back into reason and that’ll be taken care of, I think very quickly,” the former president said. 

    Trump has been steadily positioning himself as more of a centrist on abortion in recent months. 

    On Monday he said in a social media video that “at the end of the day” abortion law in the U.S. is “all about the will of the people” and that “now it’s up to the states to do the right thing.” 

    Last September, meanwhile, he called Florida’s six-week abortion ban “a terrible thing” and “a terrible mistake.”

    President Joe Biden, on the other hand, last month promised to support a law that would legalize abortion nationwide in response to the repeal of Roe v. Wade two years ago.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #19 on: April 10, 2024, 08:34:44 PM »
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  • Update today:

    "Former President Donald Trump on Wednesday said he would not sign a national abortion ban if reelected to the office of the presidency in November.
    The Republican presidential candidate was at an event in Atlanta on Wednesday when a reporter asked him:
    'Would you sign a national abortion ban if Congress sent it to your desk?'
    'No,' Trump said in response.
    Asked by the reporter: “You wouldn’t sign it?” Trump responded again: “No.' "

    Clear enough yet?

    Trump is a whole lot smarter than people generally give him credit for, maybe not in an intellectual, book-learning sense, but he "gets" people and knows how to get what he wants out of them.  There are touches of Fidel Castro and even Charles Manson (yes, that's what I said, Charles Manson) in his people-skills kit.  All Fidel had to do, was to pout to the rest of the world, that doesn't like America in the first place ("hate us because they ain't us"?) how mean the United States was to him, with that mean old embargo of theirs, and he has the world eating out of the palm of his hands.  And say what you will about Manson, anyone who could get his followers to do all the things they did, in uncritical allegiance to his person, has got some mad people skills.  Think of the three young ingenues jauntily walking to the courtroom with beatific smiles on their faces, because they were doing it all for Charlie.  Happy as little larks.  What a spell he held over them!

    Trump is feinting into a "not pro-life but not pro-choice either" message to try and snag people who are kinda-sorta pro-choice, but who aren't terribly enthusiastic about voting for Biden, trying to assure him that they have nothing to fear from him.  And in a deft bit of triangulation, after a fashion, he can look to pro-life people and say "what are you going to do, stand by and watch Biden get re-elected, or will you vote for me instead?".   IOW, "I'm the best you're going to be able to do, so just deal with it".


    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #20 on: April 19, 2024, 09:38:12 PM »
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  • He's for states' rights, isn't he?
    As long as he doesn't force states to kill babies, isn't that good?
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #21 on: April 19, 2024, 09:46:50 PM »
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  • Trump is a whole lot smarter than people generally give him credit for, maybe not in an intellectual, book-learning sense, but he "gets" people and knows how to get what he wants out of them.  There are touches of Fidel Castro and even Charles Manson (yes, that's what I said, Charles Manson) in his people-skills kit.  All Fidel had to do, was to pout to the rest of the world, that doesn't like America in the first place ("hate us because they ain't us"?) how mean the United States was to him, with that mean old embargo of theirs, and he has the world eating out of the palm of his hands.  And say what you will about Manson, anyone who could get his followers to do all the things they did, in uncritical allegiance to his person, has got some mad people skills.  Think of the three young ingenues jauntily walking to the courtroom with beatific smiles on their faces, because they were doing it all for Charlie.  Happy as little larks.  What a spell he held over them!

    Trump is feinting into a "not pro-life but not pro-choice either" message to try and snag people who are kinda-sorta pro-choice, but who aren't terribly enthusiastic about voting for Biden, trying to assure him that they have nothing to fear from him.  And in a deft bit of triangulation, after a fashion, he can look to pro-life people and say "what are you going to do, stand by and watch Biden get re-elected, or will you vote for me instead?".  IOW, "I'm the best you're going to be able to do, so just deal with it".

    I don't think that this kind of thing comes from his own mind. There's somebody from that special race that gives him this kind of direction.

    Even if the thinks that he had this ingenious idea, there's probably somebody making him "wise suggestions".

    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #22 on: April 20, 2024, 02:32:08 PM »
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  • Trump's abortion view is in line with how the average American sees it. Nothing new. They are pro-choice in thinking that there should be that choice before a certain cutoff, but pro-life (?) in thinking that past that point, it is infanticide. This is the same exact viewpoint I've heard personally from a lot of people, almost verbatim, by the way.
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed


    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #23 on: April 20, 2024, 05:27:11 PM »
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  • in thinking that past that point, it is infanticide.
    Killing at any point from conception onward (until the child is no longer an infant, ~2 years old?) is infanticide. 
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    Offline josh987654321

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #24 on: September 02, 2024, 04:58:35 AM »
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  • Update today:

    "Former President Donald Trump on Wednesday said he would not sign a national abortion ban if reelected to the office of the presidency in November.
    The Republican presidential candidate was at an event in Atlanta on Wednesday when a reporter asked him:
    'Would you sign a national abortion ban if Congress sent it to your desk?'
    'No,' Trump said in response.
    Asked by the reporter: “You wouldn’t sign it?” Trump responded again: “No.' "

    Clear enough yet?

    Abraham Lincoln also said he was not an abolitionist.

    We have a long road ahead of us but we are either moving in the right direction or the wrong direction... this movement is vitally important.

    Your also being totally played... that's why you will always lose because you can't see how your being played. That question is a trick question, no matter how Trump answers it they will use it to divide and conquer, as you just have... thus you are their perfect patsy... as when you walk off the field the enemy claims it and they don't care at all about you, because your not a realistic threat to their wholesale slaughter... only Trump is with his base of pro-lifers... that's what scares them... they will use every trick in the book to throw us and Trump off course... remember, we just need to be moving forward, we can worry about the next battle after we win the current one. 

    There are many battles to fight and win before the war is over. When Napoleon invaded Russia... Tsar Alexander never expected to end up in Paris, they were too focused on just surviving it... let alone even thinking about going on the offensive... Thus when Napoleon invaded, any talk of entering Paris would be laughable... how about we focus on what's in front of us first?

    Trump overturning Roe v Wade was no small thing and a huge victory... could go nowhere without taking that down first, which he did against all odds and so many saying he couldn't and wouldn't do it... but he did. We need to pray for Trump.

    "Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."

    God Bless

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #25 on: September 02, 2024, 06:20:27 AM »
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  • I was already not planning to vote for him, but what about this news makes this a definite no vote for Trump?  Did he really change his stance?  What Republican candidate has ever been 100% pro-life (or non-zionist for that matter)? From what I remember, those who were 100% pro-life were never the GOP's pick.
    I still have these questions.  


    Offline RobertS

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #26 on: September 02, 2024, 07:36:16 AM »
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  • Quote from: Caraffa
    ZeroD, because he never ran as a culture warrior™ and avoided the left’s traps to focus on bigger issues.

    Left's trap? Bigger issues? Sorry, but this statement is wrong in almost every respect. When Atheist Communists, and Bolshevik Jews, took over Christian Russia and made it the Communist Soviet Union, one of the first things they did is legalize abortion: "The Soviet government was the first government in Europe to legalize abortion. In October 1920 the Bolsheviks made abortion legal within the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic with their "Decree on Women's Healthcare". After the RSFSR the law was introduced in Ukraine (5 July 1921) and then the remainder of the Soviet Union." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Russia#Abortion_in_the_Soviet_Union This historical fact means abortion is one of those "errors of Russia" Our Lady specifically named and told us to fight. God will not give blessings and peace in other areas until this great Sword on His Heart, or Thorn in His Mother's Heart, of abortion-killing/infanticide on demand is finally and justly banned and outlawed. Btw, some time several decades later, they realized this was leading to demographic problems and then restricted it. Abortion on demand always leads to bad demographics. White birth-rates are low because there's been rampant promotion, and also acceptance, of all forms of non-procreative and anti-procreative things including contraception, abortion, sodomy etc. Ending and outlawing abortion is absolutely key to winning that fight also. 

    Back to Trump: he won in 2016 because (1) of Evangelical support (2) of Catholic support and also because (3) he called out and condemned Killary Clinton for wanting to kill babies in late term abortion near birth. Conservatives liked that, and so elected him into office. He needs to go back to at least attacking late term abortions, and other Conservatives should put pressure on him for, at minimum, a 15 week federal abortion ban, as Marjorie Dannenfelser asked for. That's the best that can be hoped for from the next Administration given the circuмstances, along with 2 more Pro-Life Supreme Court Justices in the mould of Barrett, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch. Then, a 6 week ban could be implemented in the years 2028-2032 if DeSantis or Vance gets in, and a complete ban by 2033 in the 2033-36 term.

    Offline RobertS

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #27 on: September 02, 2024, 07:42:04 AM »
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  • President Lincoln, who helped abolish another grave evil, Slavery, though many said it was impossible to do, like we hope to abolish Abortion today, though many are still saying that is impossible to do, also had some important reminders on what merits divine blessings and what incurs divine chastisements. One should seek the Kingdom of God, and its interests like ending Abortion first, and then all other things, including material blessings etc (being 34 Trillion dollars in debt, with 1 trillion interest payments added every 100 odd days is not a blessing - whereas God said in the OT that He would bless nations that obeyed Him in such a way that "you will lend to many nations and borrow from none"), in their own proper measure will be given to nations that keep God's commandments.

    From: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/docuмents/proclamation-97-appointing-day-national-humiliation-fasting-and-prayer


    Quote
    Whereas the Senate of the United States, devoutly recognizing the supreme authority and just government of Almighty God in all the affairs of men and of nations, has by a resolution requested the President to designate and set apart a day for national prayer and humiliation; and[/font][/size][/color]
    Whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, to confess their sins and transgressions in humble sorrow, yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon, and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord;
    And, insomuch as we know that by His divine law nations, like individuals, are subjected to punishments and chastisements in this world, may we not justly fear that the awful calamity of cινιℓ ωαr which now desolates the land may be but a punishment inflicted upon us for our presumptuous sins, to the needful end of our national reformation as a whole people? We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth, and power as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us.
    It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.
    Now, therefore, in compliance with the request, and fully concurring in the views of the Senate, I do by this my proclamation designate and set apart Thursday, the 30th day of April, 1863, as a day of national humiliation, fasting, and prayer. And I do hereby request all the people to abstain on that day from their ordinary secular pursuits, and to unite at their several places of public worship and their respective homes in keeping the day holy to the Lord and devoted to the humble discharge of the religious duties proper to that solemn occasion.
    All this being done in sincerity and truth, let us then rest humbly in the hope authorized by the divine teachings that the united cry of the nation will be heard on high and answered with blessings no less than the pardon of our national sins and the restoration of our now divided and suffering country to its former happy condition of unity and peace. In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.
    Done at the city of Washington, this 30th day of March, A. D. 1863, and of the Independence of the United States the eighty-seventh.



    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #28 on: September 02, 2024, 07:49:23 AM »
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  • President Lincoln, who helped abolish another grave evil, Slavery, though many said it was impossible to do, like we hope to abolish Abortion today, though many are still saying that is impossible to do, also had some important reminders on what merits divine blessings and what incurs divine chastisements. One should seek the Kingdom of God, and its interests like ending Abortion first, and then all other things, including material blessings etc (being 34 Trillion dollars in debt, with 1 trillion interest payments added every 100 odd days is not a blessing - whereas God said in the OT that He would bless nations that obeyed Him in such a way that "you will lend to many nations and borrow from none"), in their own proper measure will be given to nations that keep God's commandments.

    From: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/docuмents/proclamation-97-appointing-day-national-humiliation-fasting-and-prayer


    Quote
    Whereas the Senate of the United States, devoutly recognizing the supreme authority and just government of Almighty God in all the affairs of men and of nations, has by a resolution requested the President to designate and set apart a day for national prayer and humiliation; and
    Quote
    Whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, to confess their sins and transgressions in humble sorrow, yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon, and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord;
    And, insomuch as we know that by His divine law nations, like individuals, are subjected to punishments and chastisements in this world, may we not justly fear that the awful calamity of cινιℓ ωαr which now desolates the land may be but a punishment inflicted upon us for our presumptuous sins, to the needful end of our national reformation as a whole people? We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth, and power as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us.
    It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness.
    Now, therefore, in compliance with the request, and fully concurring in the views of the Senate, I do by this my proclamation designate and set apart Thursday, the 30th day of April, 1863, as a day of national humiliation, fasting, and prayer. And I do hereby request all the people to abstain on that day from their ordinary secular pursuits, and to unite at their several places of public worship and their respective homes in keeping the day holy to the Lord and devoted to the humble discharge of the religious duties proper to that solemn occasion.
    All this being done in sincerity and truth, let us then rest humbly in the hope authorized by the divine teachings that the united cry of the nation will be heard on high and answered with blessings no less than the pardon of our national sins and the restoration of our now divided and suffering country to its former happy condition of unity and peace. In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.
    Done at the city of Washington, this 30th day of March, A. D. 1863, and of the Independence of the United States the eighty-seventh.


    You need to be educated about Lincoln:

    “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.”
    Lincoln August 22, 1862
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Trump touts support for IVF, abortion in various circuмstances
    « Reply #29 on: September 02, 2024, 08:24:55 AM »
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  • Your also being totally played... that's why you will always lose because you can't see how your being played. That question is a trick question, no matter how Trump answers it they will use it to divide and conquer, as you just have... thus you are their perfect patsy... as when you walk off the field the enemy claims it and they don't care at all about you, because your not a realistic threat to their wholesale slaughter... only Trump is with his base of pro-lifers... that's what scares them... they will use every trick in the book to throw us and Trump off course... remember, we just need to be moving forward, we can worry about the next battle after we win the current one.

    With your panoramic views of history, have you yet researched the United States 10th Amendment to the Constitution and the wording of the Dobbs decision? If you haven't, then you have no idea about which you speak. The US Republican Party at the top views abortion tactically, not morally.

    And what you label as "his" base of pro-lifers isn't "his". As if questions of traditional Catholic morality first need to ask permission of a handful of cynical operatives in a US election year.

    Lots of other important social and economic issues are shoved onto the back burner since (((they've))) discovered that muh reproductive rights! is one of the easiest ways to push buttons and distract and control and rile people up on both the so-called right and the left. (And if you don't understand who "they" are, then you still have a lot of work to do.)

    Please further explain who is this "you" that is being played. Everyone on CathInfo? Any American voter who isn't buying this game, such as those who know plenty about Trump up close from NYC going back to the 1970s, including his close mentorship by Roy Cohn? Look up that last one, why don't you?

    Tell us, are you at all as fervently and frequently online about Australian politics as you are about US politics? How about what's going on in the UK, closer to your patrimony? Or is it a moth-to-the-flame sort of situation?

    Bringing it back to a CathInfo sort of core, why don't you consider for a moment how the Epistle for the 15th Sunday after Pentecost might apply to the topic in question? Please, for the good of your own soul, do try to think more than you type. It would help.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus