Author Topic: Thomas Jefferson was amazing (Read 960 times)

Matthew · « **on:** July 05, 2020, 09:48:39 PM »

His portrait is on the $2.00 Dollar Bill.
This is amazing. There are two parts to this.

Thomas Jefferson was a very remarkable man who started learning very early in life and never stopped.

At 5, began studying under
his cousin's tutor.

At 9, studied Latin,
Greek and French.

At 14, studied
classical literature
and additional languages.

At 16, entered
the College of William and Mary.
Also could write in Greek with one hand,
while writing the same in Latin with the other.

At 19, studied
Law for 5 years
starting under George Wythe.

At 23, started
his own law practice.

At 25, was elected to the
Virginia House of Burgesses.

At 31, wrote the widely circulated
"Summary View of the Rights of British America," and retired from his law practice.

At 32, was a delegate
to the Second Continental Congress.

At 33, wrote the
Declaration of Independence.

At 33, took three years to revise
Virginia's legal code and wrote a
Public Education bill and a statute for Religious Freedom.

At 36, was elected the second
Governor of Virginia, succeeding Patrick
Henry.

At 40, served in
Congress for two years.

At 41, was the American minister to France
and negotiated commercial treaties with
European nations along with
Ben Franklin and John Adams.

At 46, served as the first
Secretary of State
under George Washington.

At 53, served as Vice President
and was elected President of the
American Philosophical Society.

At 55, drafted the Kentucky Resolutions
and became the active head of the
Republican Party.

At 57, was elected the third president
of the United States.

At 60, obtained the Louisiana Purchase,
doubling the nation's size.

At 61, was
elected to a second term as President.

At 65, retired to Monticello.

At 80, helped President Monroe
shape the Monroe Doctrine.

At 81, almost
single-handedly, created the University of Virginia and served as its first
president.

At 83, died on the
50th Anniversary of the Signing of
the Declaration of Independence,
along with John Adams.

Thomas Jefferson knew because he himself studied, the previous failed attempts at government.
He understood actual history, the nature of God, His laws and the nature of man. That happens to be way more than what most understand
today.

Jefferson really knew his stuff...

A voice from the
past to lead us in the future:

John F. Kennedy held a dinner in the White House for a group of the brightest minds in the nation at that time. He made this statement:
"This is perhaps the assembly of the most intelligence ever to gather at one time in the White House, with the exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."

"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe,
we shall become as corrupt as Europe."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

"It is incuмbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes.
A principle which if acted on, would save
one-half the wars of the world."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

"My reading of history convinces me that
most bad government results from
too much government."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

"No free man shall ever be
debarred the use of arms."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms
is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time with the
blood of patriots and tyrants."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes,
the propagation of ideas which he
disbelieves and abhors,
is sinful and tyrannical."
--
Thomas
Jefferson

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2020, 09:59:12 PM »

I know some on CathInfo are going to jump in and criticize, "but he wasn't Catholic, was a Freemason, etc."

Sure, but can you write Latin with one hand while writing Greek with the other? Oh, you're off the hook for achieving or accomplishing anything, because you are technically Catholic and attend the TLM once a week.

The funny thing is, those who are most likely to criticize and completely ignore/dismiss the earthly greatness of a Thomas Jefferson are those who are young, unmarried, usually unemployed (and/or without a career or marketable skill), and spend hours a day on the Internet reading 4chan. Those are the ones I'm aiming MY critique at.

It's ridiculous when you think about it. Go re-read Thomas Jefferson's curriculum vitae and then compare it to your life.

"B...b...but I'm a Trad! I can't be that great! I'm somehow hobbled by professing the True Faith..."

Sure, whatever. I tell you what. I'll give you a pass on the earthly success part -- where he got elected to public offices. Let's say you need to be a Freemason (and certainly not a Catholic of any kind) to achieve that. I'll grant that. How about his mental and educational accomplishments? Do you need to be a Freemason to turn off the bleeping PC and learn/master something with that brain God gave you?

poche · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2020, 04:26:31 AM »

Here is a copy of the letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Ursuline nuns;

To the Soeur Therese de St. Xavier farjon Superior, and the Nuns of the order of St. Ursula at New Orleans
I have recieved, holy sisters, the letter you have written me wherein you express anxiety for the property vested in your institution by the former governments of Louisiana. the principles of the constitution and government of the United states are a sure guarantee to you that it will be preserved to you sacred and inviolate, and that your institution will be permitted to govern itself according to it’s own voluntary rules, without interference from the civil authority. whatever diversity of shade may appear in the religious opinions of our fellow citizens, the charitable objects of your institution cannot be indifferent to any; and it’s furtherance of the wholesome purposes of society, by training up it’s younger members in the way they should go, cannot fail to ensure it the patronage of the government it is under. be assured it will meet all the protection which my office can give it.
I salute you, holy sisters, with friendship & respect.

Th: Jefferson

https://founders.archives.gov/docuмents/Jefferson/99-01-02-0068

Ladislaus · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2020, 05:06:49 AM »

Quote from: Matthew on July 05, 2020, 09:59:12 PM

I know some on CathInfo are going to jump in and criticize, "but he wasn't Catholic, was a Freemason, etc."

Sure, but can you write Latin with one hand while writing Greek with the other? Oh, you're off the hook for achieving or accomplishing anything, because you are technically Catholic and attend the TLM once a week.

.
Sure, Matthew, it’s OK to admire natural accomplishments. At the same time, you do seem to be getting more and more natural in your thinking. Be careful, Matthew. I suspect that the same mental process that has you promoting a degenerate like Trump enthusiastically and without holding your nose as you put it ... is swinging you in a dangerous direction.
.
Here you practically deride Traditional Catholics who consider the supernatural to be of infinitely more value than the natural. For all of Jefferson’s natural abilities and accomplishment, he is now writing Latin and Greek at the same time ... in hell. With all his genius he never found the true faith. We should strive to be more like St. Bernadette rather than like Jefferson. Sure, if God gives us the talent and time to be this accomplished, then we should endeavor to do so for God’s glory and not ours. If we have a gift, we do not glory in it. Compared to God’s knowledge, Jefferson was a low-grade moron. St. Bernadette learned more in her first few seconds beholding the Face of God in the beatific vision than Jefferson learned his entire life or could have learned in many lifetimes.
.
What God has withheld from the learned of the world, He reveals to the humble. Jefferson is now lost and it was all worth nothing. I’m sure he wishes he would have lived his life as a dumb peasant with a simple faith.
.
Of course you know this, Matthew, but more and more you sound like a naturalist, and this mentality seems to be linked with your enthusiastic support for Trump. If you do not have to hold your nose while pulling the lever, as it were, barely justifying your vote with the principle of double effect, then you’re losing your Catholic bearings. Perhaps you’ve been following too many Q boards and pro-Trump sites and are being sucked in. I rarely see you participating in theological discussions, and have repeatedly disparaged these as being of little importance compared to the practical things. While there’s some truth to that, recall Bishop Williamson’s rejection of this attitude, his insistence that ideas matter and inform our actions, talking about how the hierarchy failed at V2 despite their amazing material accomplishments ... building churches and schools and filling pews at unprecedented rates.
.
Again, nothing wrong with admiring natural accomplishments ... but we need to put them in their place. It’s about finding balance. I could spend the next 10 years working on writing Greek and Latin with alternate hands ... or I could pray and labor for the salvation of others. Jefferson was like was an idiot compared to Our Lord. I love the scene in The Passion where Our Lord speaks to Pilate in Latin. We don’t see the Lord putting flashy learning on display during His life on earth.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #4 on:** July 06, 2020, 05:12:27 AM »

Of course you anticipate an objection along these lines but exaggerate it a bit by turning it into a straw man. Of course one’s time is better spent learning things like this than surfing the web or whatever ... but barely. Now if someone wanted to learn Latin or Greek to study Scripture, the Fathers, and great Catholic authors ... that would be great. Everything must remain ordered to God and His glory rather than ours.

Quo vadis Domine · « **Reply #5 on:** July 06, 2020, 06:14:08 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on July 06, 2020, 05:06:49 AM

.
Sure, Matthew, it’s OK to admire natural accomplishments. At the same time, you do seem to be getting more and more natural in your thinking. Be careful, Matthew. I suspect that the same mental process that has you promoting a degenerate like Trump enthusiastically and without holding your nose as you put it ... is swinging you in a dangerous direction.
.
Here you practically deride Traditional Catholics who consider the supernatural to be of infinitely more value than the natural. For all of Jefferson’s natural abilities and accomplishment, he is now writing Latin and Greek at the same time ... in hell. With all his genius he never found the true faith. We should strive to be more like St. Bernadette rather than like Jefferson. Sure, if God gives us the talent and time to be this accomplished, then we should endeavor to do so for God’s glory and not ours. If we have a gift, we do not glory in it. Compared to God’s knowledge, Jefferson was a low-grade moron. St. Bernadette learned more in her first few seconds beholding the Face of God in the beatific vision than Jefferson learned his entire life or could have learned in many lifetimes.
.
What God has withheld from the learned of the world, He reveals to the humble. Jefferson is now lost and it was all worth nothing. I’m sure he wishes he would have lived his life as a dumb peasant with a simple faith.
.
Of course you know this, Matthew, but more and more you sound like a naturalist, and this mentality seems to be linked with your enthusiastic support for Trump. If you do not have to hold your nose while pulling the lever, as it were, barely justifying your vote with the principle of double effect, then you’re losing your Catholic bearings. Perhaps you’ve been following too many Q boards and pro-Trump sites and are being sucked in. I rarely see you participating in theological discussions, and have repeatedly disparaged these as being of little importance compared to the practical things. While there’s some truth to that, recall Bishop Williamson’s rejection of this attitude, his insistence that ideas matter and inform our actions, talking about how the hierarchy failed at V2 despite their amazing material accomplishments ... building churches and schools and filling pews at unprecedented rates.
.
Again, nothing wrong with admiring natural accomplishments ... but we need to put them in their place. It’s about finding balance. I could spend the next 10 years working on writing Greek and Latin with alternate hands ... or I could pray and labor for the salvation of others. Jefferson was like was an idiot compared to Our Lord. I love the scene in The Passion where Our Lord speaks to Pilate in Latin. We don’t see the Lord putting flashy learning on display during His life on earth.

Very good post, but I need to add something. Thomas Jefferson’s daughter, Patsy, wanted to become a Catholic nun, Jefferson devilishly devised a way to halt her vocation: https://www.ncregister.com/blog/tcraughwell/the-day-thomas-jeffersons-daughter-told-him-she-wanted-to-become-a-nun
Ladislaus is absolutely right that we can’t get too caught up in our patriotic feelings at the expense of our Catholic Faith. It is very easy to fall into naturalism. Yes, I will absolutely vote for President Trump and I will not feel the need to hold my nose. I clearly see that he is certainly not perfect, but he IS definitely a step in the right direction. As far as I can tell, he is not an insider and at this point in time we need a rough and tough *outsider* as we don’t *deserve* a Catholic Monarch, at least not now.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2020, 08:00:45 AM »

Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 06, 2020, 06:14:08 AM

Yes, I will absolutely vote for President Trump and I will not feel the need to hold my nose.

I'm not sure I understand this. Trump is pro-sodomite. So I don't see how a Catholic can NOT hold his nose while casting that ballot. I see it as best justified by double effect. I don't see him as being just "not perfect".

We just had an incident where the U.S. embassy in Russia unfurled the Rainbow flag and had it rightly mocked by Putin. Is this what the U.S. represents under the Trump administration? Trump should have immediately recalled the ambassador. I actually think he must have had Trump's at-least-tacit approval to attempt a stunt like that.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2020, 08:02:53 AM »

Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 06, 2020, 06:14:08 AM

... Jefferson devilishly devised a way to halt her vocation: https://www.ncregister.com/blog/tcraughwell/the-day-thomas-jeffersons-daughter-told-him-she-wanted-to-become-a-nun

Interesting. I did not know this. Jefferson did also have at least 6 illegitimate children with Sally Hemmings.

Nishant Xavier · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2020, 08:13:07 AM »

Yes, Jefferson had admirable natural traits. Those are worth noting and can be appreciated.

Btw, no one can pronounce final judgment on another person's soul - well, no one short of God. Anyone who is not God can at most have a strong suspicion. Fr. Mueller says the possibility of a last minute deathbed conversion, always possible to God, should prevent us from passing final judgment on another person's soul. But the chances aren't too good, sure.

As for President Trump, the rainbow thing is very bad. Someone like a hypothetical President Pence for e.g. would never allow that, despite Pence not being perfect either. But the US is a work in progress. It's not going to become a Catholic nation overnight. Step by step, these things have to be improved. I liked Jefferson's letter to the Nun posted by poche.

That was good. The other thing is not good. But God alone knows the soul with final certainty.

Quo vadis Domine · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2020, 09:22:06 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on July 06, 2020, 08:00:45 AM

I'm not sure I understand this. Trump is pro-sodomite. So I don't see how a Catholic can NOT hold his nose while casting that ballot. I see it as best justified by double effect. I don't see him as being just "not perfect".

We just had an incident where the U.S. embassy in Russia unfurled the Rainbow flag and had it rightly mocked by Putin. Is this what the U.S. represents under the Trump administration? Trump should have immediately recalled the ambassador. I actually think he must have had Trump's at-least-tacit approval to attempt a stunt like that.

By stating “I won’t hold my nose”, I mean I won’t feel any scruple of conscience when I vote for him. In the case of the two Presidents Bush, Mitt Romney, and John McCain, I indeed had a scruple and thus didn’t vote for any of them. It seems to me that because Trump is an outsider, he actually is a decent candidate for conversion. Remember Constantine didn’t start out as a Catholic.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2020, 09:37:29 AM »

I wish there was a Putin-like candidate I could vote for.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2020, 09:52:06 AM »

Quote from: XavierSem on July 06, 2020, 08:13:07 AM

Btw, no one can pronounce final judgment on another person's soul - well, no one short of God. Anyone who is not God can at most have a strong suspicion. Fr. Mueller says the possibility of a last minute deathbed conversion, always possible to God, should prevent us from passing final judgment on another person's soul. But the chances aren't too good, sure.

Yes, while it is possible that someone could have experienced a deathbed conversion, I follow the lead of the Holy Office under St. Pius X to simply affirm the presumption that he is lost, since he appears to have died outside the Church. Anything else opens up the door to equivocation regarding EENS dogma. In this day and age, to speculate about someone who was not a Catholic possibly being saved sounds like equivocation about the dogma that is most under attack at this time in the Church.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2020, 09:53:29 AM »

Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 06, 2020, 09:22:06 AM

By stating “I won’t hold my nose”, I mean I won’t feel any scruple of conscience when I vote for him. In the case of the two Presidents Bush, Mitt Romney, and John McCain, I indeed had a scruple and thus didn’t vote for any of them. It seems to me that because Trump is an outsider, he actually is a decent candidate for conversion. Remember Constantine didn’t start out as a Catholic.

Sure, I get all that, that you won't be troubled in conscience voting for him, but there is a fair bit of stink there with Trump's condonement and even promotion of sodomites.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2020, 09:56:57 AM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 06, 2020, 09:37:29 AM

I wish there was a Putin-like candidate I could vote for.

Yes, would that we had a Catholic version of Putin. It almost seems like Orthodox Russia is closer to Catholicism than most of the Novus Ordo ... except of course that there's an inifinite gap in terms of the Orthodox not even professing the Catholic faith, while many in the Novus Ordo do.

But someone like Bergoglio on the See makes their conversion practically impossible ... on a natural level. Would anyone of even remotely good faith want to convert to that? If I were Orthodox I would find myself much more confident that I was right and that Rome had it wrong the entire time.

So we must await the miraculous conversion promised by Our Lady of Fatima.

ChristusRex1571 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2020, 01:11:42 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on July 05, 2020, 09:59:12 PM

I know some on CathInfo are going to jump in and criticize, "but he wasn't Catholic, was a Freemason, etc."

Sure, but can you write Latin with one hand while writing Greek with the other? Oh, you're off the hook for achieving or accomplishing anything, because you are technically Catholic and attend the TLM once a week.

I think the saints such as Aquinas and Bellarmine far exceeded Jefferson in intelligence even on the natural level so I really do not see the need to recognize his "accomplishments." I would like my children to grow up with a strong aversion to Freemasons of his ilk. We should not lie or hide the truth but we do not need to spend much time dwelling on what a great mind he had. Did he really if he could not discover the truth? It is like the cult of science where Einstein's brain is a sacred relic

Author Topic: Thomas Jefferson was amazing (Read 960 times)

Matthew

Thomas Jefferson was amazing

Matthew

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poche

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Ladislaus

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Ladislaus

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Quo vadis Domine

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Ladislaus

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Ladislaus

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Nishant Xavier

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Quo vadis Domine

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SeanJohnson

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Ladislaus

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Ladislaus

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Ladislaus

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ChristusRex1571

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