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Author Topic: The Martyrs' Stand: Choosing Christ Over Compromise in Today's Political Land  (Read 9404 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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  • I don't have to know the catechism, the Summa, every papal encyclical inside and out to know that voting for candidates that advocate for genocide is to be complicit in that genocide.
    What so ever you do to the least of my brethren, that you do unto me.

    It's refreshing to see someone who's retained a Catholic (or even just human moral compass).

    I've become disillusioned with Tradism here, not having realized how uttely stupid and easily manipulated 95% of Trads really are.  One would think that the Catholic faith would insulate people from being dragged around and manipulated like stupid sheep ... but evidently not.  And there's generally a lot of bad will involved too, where they have ulterior motives preventing them from seeking the real Catholic truth.  There are only a small handful of people on this forum who are sincerely and openly seeking the truth.  And the Trad clergy are not better ... probably even worse.

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • So all the Trad clergy alive today are "vagus clergy" who "might has well have obtained their academic credentials from Cracker Jack boxes". Such respect for the Trad clergy.

    I should have used the term vagantes, but absolutely.  Are you claiming these Trad clergy have any jurisdiction or authority within the Church?  Strange coming from the R&R who reject the teaching of the entire hierarchy that they claim have jurisdiction and teaching authority.  It's OK for you to blow them off.  So, not only do they have no authority, but they have nothing but a rudimentary seminary training (most of them do) that would allow them to function as simple parish priests.  They have none of the advanced degrees that would normally be required before someone might have credential to posture as a theologian.

    So I'm correct on both counts.  Of course, you forget that nearly all the Trad clergy think that the Resistance are schismatic, the SSPX do and so do SVs ... but you know better there too.

    This is nothing more than the typical appeal to authority as filtered out by confirmation bias.

    It's nothing but an absurd soup of contradiction all around.  If you're allowed to reject the teaching of the Vicar of Christ and the entire Episcopacy that you claim all have jurisdiction and teaching authority, I'm allowed to dismiss the "teaching" (aka gratuitous opinions) of the Trad clergy who not only have zero authority but who also have a very limited parish-priest level education.

    Instead of actually trying to argue the case from principles, you do the old appeal to authority, "because muh Trad clergy", while ignoring the higher authority of the man you claim to be the Vicar of Christ ... but only those authorities that line up with what you already WANT to believe in the first place.

    It's pathetic.


    Offline Plenus Venter

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  • Then you're clearly ignorant and uninformed ...

    https://x.com/leahmcelrath/status/1847362843454108005
    Yes, absolutely shocking.
    I'm not American, so I don't follow the politics too closely. But I once - along with Archbishop Vigano - held out hopes that Trump could be part of the solution.
    Soon after the recent trouble reignited in the Holy Land, I saw an interview in which Trump very clearly favoured the action taken by Israel.
    That confirmed for me that he is well and truly part of the problem and absolutely not the solution.
    Only Fatima has the solution now.
    Pray the Rosary!

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Yes, absolutely shocking.
    I'm not American, so I don't follow the politics too closely. But I once - along with Archbishop Vigano - held out hopes that Trump could be part of the solution.
    Soon after the recent trouble reignited in the Holy Land, I saw an interview in which Trump very clearly favoured the action taken by Israel.
    That confirmed for me that he is well and truly part of the problem and absolutely not the solution.
    Only Fatima has the solution now.
    Pray the Rosary!

    Thank you.  Yet another individual who still has a moral compass left.

    Here's a lot of detail about what Trump has been encouraging "Bibi" to do ...

    https://x.com/AJIunit/status/1841885939791999043

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • And this ...
    https://x.com/TheGrayzoneNews/status/1843318219404186024

    I'm just gob-smacked that we have Traditional Catholics voting for this, claiming it's licit to vote for this, and even some claiming there's a moral obligation to vote for this.

    If I cast a vote for Trump, I'd be doing the Lady MacBeth in trying to wipe the blood off my hands on a daily basis.


    Offline 2Vermont

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  • Yes, absolutely shocking.
    I'm not American, so I don't follow the politics too closely. But I once - along with Archbishop Vigano - held out hopes that Trump could be part of the solution.
    Speaking of Vigano, does he still support Trump? 

    Offline Gray2023

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  • Share your opinions with humility and maybe people will listen.  

    Go around smacking everyone upside the head with words, then no one is going to listen.
    The beatings will continue until morale improves.:fryingpan:

    I want to believe that people's hearts are in the right place, because that is what we will be judged on by God.

    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Plenus Venter

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  • Thank you.  Yet another individual who still has a moral compass left.

    Here's a lot of detail about what Trump has been encouraging "Bibi" to do ...

    https://x.com/AJIunit/status/1841885939791999043
    Yes, it is utterly demonic. I was shocked and bitterly disappointed when I first heard Trump's wholehearted approval of what they are doing.


    Offline Plenus Venter

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  • Speaking of Vigano, does he still support Trump?
    I'm sorry, 2V, I don't know the answer to that one. But I could not believe it possible. 

    Offline Matthew

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  • So I'm correct on both counts.  Of course, you forget that nearly all the Trad clergy think that the Resistance are schismatic, the SSPX do and so do SVs ... but you know better there too.

    This is nothing more than the typical appeal to authority as filtered out by confirmation bias.

    You forget that I don't condemn those who agree/disagree that "the Resistance is schismatic" -- because there is a certain fog of war, or confusion, surrounding the Crisis in the Church. Hence the reason we shouldn't -- and can't -- bind the consciences of others on these matters.

    Yes, I hold MANY, MANY unpopular and minority positions, especially considered on a world scale. But that doesn't mean I condemn those who disagree with me as being in objective mortal sin.

    Unless there's a Catholic Church dogma they're going against, I (as a layman without Church authority) can't condemn them. Not a disputed controversial theological point either -- we're talking about dogmas, things you have to believe in order to have the Faith.

    A good Pope leading a Catholic Church NOT in Crisis would cut through the Trump controversy like a hot knife through butter. There would be perfect Catholic teaching, leadership, and clarity on the matter. But we don't have that luxury. We are each left to our own lights, our own opinions, our own prudence in this matter. We are like sheep without a shepherd.
    Some will get it (objectively) right. Some will get it (objectively) wrong. God will condemn NONE OF THE ABOVE on this one particular heading, and no human can condemn others either based on what "best guess" they went with.

    We're all forced to muddle along the best we can, and serve God in all things we do, even banal things like eating, sleeping, working, and voting.
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    Offline NishantXavier

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  • Re-posting to show the case why its arguably morally obligatory to vote for Trump-Vance: Alito, Thomas, Roberts, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and Barrett voted to overturn Roe.

    Justices Alito, Thomas and Roberts were appointed by President Bush. So President Bush also deserves credit for overturning Roe, and for signing that partial birth abortion ban 2Vermont mentioned.

    Justices Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and Barrett were appointed by President Trump. It's very rare, and surely Providential, that there were 3 vacancies in a single term. Also because McConell and Senate republicans did their duty and refused to fill Justice Scalia's seat before the election. Then they reversed themself and appointed Barrett anyway. You have to be smart to win a war, and to their credit, the pro life republicans in the senate were. Each of them deserves credit for that they did and almost unanimously voting for the pro life candidates President Trump appointed to be confirmed in the Senate. President Trump too deserves credit. It was President Raegan who appointed Scalia, so he too deserves credit.

    Also all Catholics who offered Masses and Rosaries, and faithful souls of good will who poured forth ceaseless prayers to God for 50 years for the abomination of Roe v Wade to end, deserve credit and will be rewarded by Almighty God in Heaven. Keep up the good fight, because we are winning, and don't give it up now. There still is more than sufficient moral difference between pro life Republicans and pro abort Democrats to more than justify voting for Trump-Vance with a view to occupying the White House for 8-12 years that at very bare minimum more than justifies voting for Trump and in view of a pro-life Catholic Presidency for Vance for 8 years after that arguably might render such an action morally obligatory. But this is for each Catholic's conscience to discern in discussion with their priests.


    Offline josefamenendez

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  • I don't know if it rises to the level of mortal sin if the person is lacking awareness, morally and spiritually regarding voting in the spectacle- but it is implying consent by active participation.
    After what the world have been through in the past 5 years, it amazes me that the automatic default reverts right back to the same ignorant position of putting our faith in clowns. 
    We are currently in and looking at a much greater chastisement. There is no mitigating this any longer. There is no one on earth that can stop it. Full steam ahead.
    If our Lady is correct ( and she always is) We will only have the Rosary and the promises of it to get us through. I think the most immediate perparation for the election is to continue to do our station of life, prepare as best as you can and stay on your knees with the Rosary. Make sure you get to confession and the Sacraments before election day because there is no telling when your next communion might be. 

    Offline 2Vermont

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  • I'm sorry, 2V, I don't know the answer to that one. But I could not believe it possible.
    Given his very strong, public support for Trump in the past, I would think if he no longer did, he would be very public about that too.  The last thing I saw on his X account was his reposting of Trump's Prayer to St Michael the Archangel with no other comment (which wasn't that long ago).

    Offline Valentine

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  • I don't know if it rises to the level of mortal sin if the person is lacking awareness, morally and spiritually regarding voting in the spectacle- but it is implying consent by active participation.
    After what the world have been through in the past 5 years, it amazes me that the automatic default reverts right back to the same ignorant position of putting our faith in clowns.
    We are currently in and looking at a much greater chastisement. There is no mitigating this any longer. There is no one on earth that can stop it. Full steam ahead.
    If our Lady is correct ( and she always is) We will only have the Rosary and the promises of it to get us through. I think the most immediate perparation for the election is to continue to do our station of life, prepare as best as you can and stay on your knees with the Rosary. Make sure you get to confession and the Sacraments before election day because there is no telling when your next communion might be.
    You deserve a thousand upvotes my friend.
     It's like the famous Mark Twain quote, "it's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled."
    How many times have I read here and elsewhere, "oh, but Trump didn't mandate the vax!" Nah, he just aided and abetted the most massive brainwashing operation in the history of mankind. Why would he need to mandate something that most took all too willingly out of blind fear, killing grandma, losing their job, facing social ostracism, not being able to travel...and a thousand other methods of coercion. It's easy to see now how the antichrist will be able to seduce even the faithful, by pride...the pride of being unable to admit you were conned and continued to be conned by such a sleazy human being

    Offline josh987654321

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  • It's like the famous Mark Twain quote, "it's easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled."
    How many times have I read here and elsewhere, "oh, but Trump didn't mandate the vax!" Nah, he just aided and abetted the most massive brainwashing operation in the history of mankind. Why would he need to mandate something that most took all too willingly out of blind fear, killing grandma, losing their job, facing social ostracism, not being able to travel...and a thousand other methods of coercion. It's easy to see now how the antichrist will be able to seduce even the faithful, by pride...the pride of being unable to admit you were conned and continued to be conned by such a sleazy human being

    You have a short memory... you forget you already got what you wanted, it's already been tried... Trump was ousted in 2020 and it was the alternative of Biden that gave us the jab mandates and a thousand other methods of coercion. Trump actually defended Hydroxychloroquine early on and they raced to shut him down all while plotting behind his back... Fauci is not voting Trump... so whose side are you on? You want to do the same thing again? Also very telling that you omit RFK Jr being on Trumps team...

    Like I said, very dishonest and foolish, you have ulterior motives and this is not honest.

    "For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."