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Author Topic: Charlie James Kirk Etymology→ Free man, supplanter, of the church.  (Read 28424 times)

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Offline Miseremini

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  •  It was the same for the Mormon Church. And the point he was making - I've watched the video - is that the Morman Church had of late been promoting woke LGBT rubbish. That is what he meant when he said 'We need a strong Morman church back in this country'. He was encouraging them to get back to their more 'Christian' teachings. 
    He said WE need not they need to get back
     and the Church allows us to privately pray for him and have Masses said which could win him that rare conversion.
    The Church (traditionally) forbids Masses for a deceased Protestant.  No priest is allowed to offer them.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Angelus

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  • I see your point Miseremini but there is this to consider - the context. Part of Kirk's method was to draw in - find common ground - instead of going on the attack. He did this with everybody including gαys. He made it clear he didn't agree with their life-style, but he always treated them respectfully as people. It was the same for the Mormon Church. And the point he was making - I've watched the video - is that the Morman Church had of late been promoting woke LGBT rubbish. That is what he meant when he said 'We need a strong Morman church back in this country'. He was encouraging them to get back to their more 'Christian' teachings.  And as Utah is the Morman state of America, he approached it tactfully.

    Also, desiring to become a Catholic doesn't mean you are instantly infused with wisdom. (I know I wasn't. The ardent desire was there, but the understanding and knowledge was a long process). Nor would it have been wise to suddenly start laying down the law to thousands of Mormans. Kirk's method was always dialogue - such as encouraging protestants to venerate our Lady more. As I said, Kirk may very well be damned -  but I personally have great hope for him - and the Church allows us to privately pray for him and have Masses said which could win him that rare conversion. He was a brave man who was willing to put his life on the line for his faith. He willed to be united with Christ. It's worth praying for someone like that.

    More chaff. For the umpteenth time, Charlie Kirk was not converting to the Catholic Faith.

    As WorldsAway showed, Kirk's best friend had a chuckle over the claim that Kirk and Erika were converting. Why do you refuse to admit you have been wrong this entire time? Why can you not submit your mind to the truth?

    And stop with the talking points about him "encouraging protestants to venerate Our Lady more." The only thing he wanted to venerate about "Mary" was that she was an antidote to "toxic feminism." He denigrated Her Ever Virginity. He denigrated Her Immaculate Conception. He denigrated Her Glorious Assumption. He blasphemed her, according to the standard found in the Moral Theology of Callan and McHugh.

    Here is why the 5 Saturdays Devotion exists:

    Quote
    Sister Lucia’s confessor questioned her about the reason for the five Saturdays asking why not seven or nine. She answered him in a letter dated June 12, 1930. In it she related about a vision she had of Our Lord while staying in the convent chapel part of the night of the twenty-ninth to the thirtieth of the month of May, 1930. The reasons Our Lord gave were as follows:

    The five first Saturdays correspond to the five kinds of offenses and blasphemies committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary. They are:
    1. Blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception
    2. Blasphemies against her virginity
    3. Blasphemies against her divine maternity, at the same time the refusal to accept her as the Mother of all men.
    4. Instilling indifference, scorn and even hatred towards this Immaculate Mother in the hearts of children
    5. Direct insults against Her sacred images

    Let us keep the above reasons firmly in our minds. Devotions have intentions attached to them and knowing them adds merit and weight to the practice.

    Note each of those things is a different offense against Our Lady. Kirk committed at least two of them in his video. Yet, you claim he encouraged "veneration" to her.



    Offline Miseremini

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  • Watching many of the videos where Charlie speaks about the Catholic Church and where his friends quote his private conversations, and reading his wife's posts on her instagram  account, I believe that more young Catholic boys/men at universities will be led away from Catholicism than if they'd never heard of Charlie Kirk.
     
    Following in the footsteps of Jimmy Swaggart, Benny Hinn, Jim and Tammy Baker, Joyce Meyer, Billy Graham, John Hagee etc, etc, etc.   Charlie ama$$ed his fortune using God for his bu$ine$$.  I haven't found a video yet extolling his temporal charitable works.  If we are to believe his profound love of God, wouldn't he have been giving much to the poor?  Looks like his Plan B, if all else failed was politics.


    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline WorldsAway

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  • Erika Kirk's clothing brand and "ministry":

    https://www.proclaim365.com/us


    Quote
    PROCLAIM is a clothing and lifestyle company with a greater purpose: to equip believers to boldly live out their faith and to know the Word of God from cover to cover. Every item we produce is created with intention and designed to spark and inspire Gospel conversation.



    When you shop PROCLAIM, you're helping to advance a mission rooted in the Bible. Proceeds from every purchase support BIBLEin365, the ministry arm of PROCLAIM. It's a free, global discipleship journey that walks believers through the entire Bible in one year. This immersive journey through Scripture is rich with community engagement and spiritual guidance from Pastor James Kaddis, our trusted Pastoral Advisor. Our program is about more than biblical resources, it's about prayerfully walking alongside our fellow brothers and sisters as we learn and grow together. Thousands have joined us, from every corner of the world, as we prioritize Scripture and build a daily habit of seeking God through His Word.

     

    The heart of our ministry isn't style or trends. It's about making Heaven crowded.

     
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline WorldsAway

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  • FWIW, Novus Ordo Bishop Joseph Brennan claims Kirk told him he was "this close" to converting to Catholicism in a private conversation

    https://angelusnews.com/voices/kirk-conversion/

    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


    Offline Miseremini

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  • FWIW, Novus Ordo Bishop Joseph Brennan claims Kirk told him he was "this close" to converting to Catholicism in a private conversation

    https://angelusnews.com/voices/kirk-conversion/
    Close only counts in horseshoes.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Angelus

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  • FWIW, Novus Ordo Bishop Joseph Brennan claims Kirk told him he was "this close" to converting to Catholicism in a private conversation

    https://angelusnews.com/voices/kirk-conversion/

    Yes, and the guy's story is so contrived. 

    1. Kirk and the false prophet had "a brief, private moment."

    2. Kirk lied to the false prophet about his "Catholic wife."

    3. Kirk said "he attended Mass," which we now know was some kind of fetish for the wonderful "traditions" found in the Novus Ordo Mass.

    4. Kirk loves his "Catholic Pastor," and apparently loves his Protestant pastors even more as they are on his payroll.

    5. Then, Kirk quashed the "speculation" that he was converting. Rather, he states that his theological positions are already "this close" to Catholic teaching, which is basically what he said in his video where he blasphemed Our Lady. What Kirk thinks are just a few minor differences, Catholics know are differences between Heaven and Hell.

    Here's the gist of it:

    Quote
    A little more than a week before his murder, Kirk attended a pro-life prayer breakfast in Visalia, California, which is in the Diocese of Fresno. The bishop was among those in attendance and had a brief, private moment with Kirk.

    It was there that Kirk told the bishop about his Catholic wife and children and how he attended Mass with them. He punctuated this conversation with “I love my Catholic pastor.”  

    As they were parting to attend the more public portion of the prayer breakfast, Kirk mentioned speculation regarding his contemplating entering the Catholic Church, saying: "I'm this close."


    Offline Boru

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  • No such thing as a "Feeneyite". Baptism of Desire for catechumens is a theological OPINION. You will find no teachings from the Magisterium defining it as a Dogma. As Charlie Kirk would say, "prove me wrong".

    Did you love the bolded part as well, where Pope Pius IX taught that true Faith cannot be found outside of the Church? That true faith, which is the beginning of salvation for man and the basis of all justification?

    Kirk did not become a member of the Church by his baptism because he was baptized into a heretical sect. Even if valid his sins were not forgiven, he was not justified, because it was a sacrilegious baptism, and he was a heretic.
    I see. So you are a Feeneyite and a Sedevacantist. Well, well, well.

    Ok. Let us see what the Catechism of the Council of Trent says: "On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness." - Baptism:pg 179.

    This theological 'opinion' as you label it is a traditional belief of the Church supported by St. Thomas Aquinas. It may not have been formally defined, but never-the-less, it is a traditional teaching of the Catholic Church based on logical scriptural conclusions, and to reject it, for one's own opposing belief system, is to set oneself against the Church. Everything must be understood as the Church understands it. And Baptism of Desire for catechumens is part of the Ordinary and universal magisterium.

    As for the the bolded part you highlighted, yes, I agree with it. But don't you as a Sede find the follow on even more interesting? :"...and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church.
    [4] Thus, there can be no greater crime, no more hideous stain than to stand up against Christ, than to divide the Church engendered and purchased by His blood, than to forget evangelical love and to combat with the furor of hostile discord the harmony of the people of God" - Pius IX Encyclical Letter 3/17/1856

    Evangelical baptisms are considered valid baptisms using the name of the Blessed Trinity. This means that Kirk's baptism made him a member of the Mystical Body with God as his Father.  Kirk, however chose to embrace/continue with the Protestant sect and thus cut himself off from that body via heresy. The one thing that could have made the Church his mother, is the renouncing of the protestant heresies. He would not have needed to be baptized again.

    One week before his death - that's three weeks after that Marian video - Charlie Kirk had this to say:

    https://angelusnews.com/voices/kirk-conversion/



    Offline WorldsAway

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  • Yes, and the guy's story is so contrived.

    1. Kirk and the false prophet had "a brief, private moment."

    2. Kirk lied to the false prophet about his "Catholic wife."

    3. Kirk said "he attended Mass," which we now know was some kind of fetish for the wonderful "traditions" found in the Novus Ordo Mass.

    4. Kirk loves his "Catholic Pastor," and apparently loves his Protestant pastors even more as they are on his payroll.

    5. Then, Kirk quashed the "speculation" that he was converting. Rather, he states that his theological positions are already "this close" to Catholic teaching, which is basically what he said in his video where he blasphemed Our Lady. What Kirk thinks are just a few minor differences, Catholics know are differences between Heaven and Hell.

    Here's the gist of it:
    Agreed. 
    Not sure where the claims of Erika being a practicing Catholic originate from. They were circling prior to that article being posted, IIRC I saw them as early as 9/11. 

    I took it for granted that she was at least a practicing Novus Ordoite until today, when I found that speech she made at the Evangelical chapel and heard what Andrew Kolvet, CK's producer and "best friend" said. Her speech is obviously much more incriminating, being her own words..but what Kolvet said today can counter any claims that there has been some secret reversion or whatnot. 
    Lots of false information being spread. I will probably start compiling all of this for a thread
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline Angelus

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  • ...

    Evangelical baptisms are considered valid baptisms using the name of the Blessed Trinity. This means that Kirk's baptism made him a member of the Mystical Body with God as his Father.  Kirk, however chose to embrace/continue with the Protestant sect and thus cut himself off from that body via heresy. The one thing that could have made the Church his mother, is the renouncing of the protestant heresies. He would not have needed to be baptized again.

    ...

    Heretical baptisms, according to St. Thomas, if done properly do indeed set the "indelible character" on the soul of the person. However, that soul does not receive the "grace" of baptism if they do not profess the Catholic Faith.

    https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.III.Q68.A8.C

    Quote
    I answer that, As appears from what has been said above (Q. 63, A. 6; Q. 66, A. 9) Baptism produces a twofold effect in the soul, viz. the character and grace. Therefore in two ways may a thing be necessary for Baptism.

    First, as something without which grace, which is the ultimate effect of the sacrament, cannot be had. And thus right faith is necessary for Baptism, because, as it appears from Rom. 3:22, the justice of God is by faith of Jesus Christ.

    Second, something is required of necessity for Baptism, because without it the baptismal character cannot be imprinted. And thus right faith is not necessary in the one baptized any more than in the one who baptizes: provided the other conditions are fulfilled which are essential to the sacrament. For the sacrament is not perfected by the righteousness of the minister or of the recipient of Baptism, but by the power of God.


    Offline Boru

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  • He said WE need not they need to get backThe Church (traditionally) forbids Masses for a deceased Protestant.  No priest is allowed to offer them.
    He said "We need a strong Mormon Church back in this country" which he qualified by asking them to stop with the LGBT rubbish. The sense is clear if you don't isolate one part of it. The Mormon Church is already widespread in America. It's huge. So that's not what he meant.

    As for Masses, the Church is not allowed to offer public Masses, but they are allowed to offer private Masses.

    "Close" means he desired it. It means he had one or two things to work through but the desire was there. You don't say such a thing unless its your intention.This doesn't prove he did, but it gives one hope.


    Offline Miseremini

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  • "Close" means he desired it. It means he had one or two things to work through but the desire was there. 
    James 2:10

    And whosoever shall keep the whole law, but offend in one point, is become
    guilty of all.



    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline WorldsAway

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  • Ok. Let us see what the Catechism of the Council of Trent says: "On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness." - Baptism:pg 179.

    Yes, they will be availed to grace and righteousness. Now what does that have to do with "Baptism of desire", or attaining salvation without water baptism?
    Following Our Lord's Words, "Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.", and the Council of Trent's teaching that baptism is necessary for salvation and that true and natural water is necessary for baptism, what the Catechism of Trent teaches me is that those adults, by their intention and determination to receive Baptism and repentance of their sins, will be afforded the opportunity to receive Baptism

    Quote
    This theological 'opinion' as you label it is a traditional belief of the Church supported by St. Thomas Aquinas. It may not have been formally defined, but never-the-less, it is a traditional teaching of the Catholic Church based on logical scriptural conclusions, and to reject it, for one's own opposing belief system, is to set oneself against the Church. Everything must be understood as the Church understands it. And Baptism of Desire for catechumens is part of the Ordinary and universal magisterium.
    No, it is not a traditional teaching of the Catholic Church. There is no Magisterial teaching regarding BOD. Do not fabricate Church teaching.

    Quote
    As for the the bolded part you highlighted, yes, I agree with it. But don't you as a Sede find the follow on even more interesting? :"...and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church.[4] Thus, there can be no greater crime, no more hideous stain than to stand up against Christ, than to divide the Church engendered and purchased by His blood, than to forget evangelical love and to combat with the furor of hostile discord the harmony of the people of God" - Pius IX Encyclical Letter 3/17/1856
    Considering the topic at hand, no. I do not find that more interesting.

    Quote
    Evangelical baptisms are considered valid baptisms using the name of the Blessed Trinity. This means that Kirk's baptism made him a member of the Mystical Body with God as his Father. Kirk, however chose to embrace/continue with the Protestant sect and thus cut himself off from that body via heresy. The one thing that could have made the Church his mother, is the renouncing of the protestant heresies. He would not have needed to be baptized again.
    Yes, the baptism may have been valid. No, Kirk's baptism, if valid, did not make him a member of the Mystical Body of Christ, because he was baptized in a heretical sect with the intention of being baptized into that sect, not into the Church.


    Quote
    Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free.” 17 As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. 18 And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered — so the Lord commands — as a heathen and a publican. 19 It follows that those are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit.

    Pius XII, Mystici Corporis
    Kirk, denying numerous Dogmas of Faith, did not profess the true Faith before, during, or after his baptism. He did not cut himself off from the Mystical Body of Christ because he was never a member to begin with. It was a sacrilegious baptism and a grave sin, with no remission of sins and no sanctifying grace
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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  • LOVE the underlined part especially.

    WorldsAway, do you believe in Baptism of Desire or are you a Feenyite?
    "feenyite", lol you are one of those brainwashed fools. Are you even aware that Fr Feeney never mentioned baptism of desire during the whole issue when he was invalidly excommunicated?

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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  • FWIW, Kirk's producer and "best friend", Andrew Kolvet, on rumors of Kirk considering converting to Catholicism:



    Relevant section starts at 7:30



    Andrew later implies that Charlie Kirk would sometimes attend mass because he did not like "worshipping" in a gym, or other bland environments. He implies this was more to do with aesthetics and the "feel" of a Catholic mass, because Charlie had "some really big theological hangups with [Catholicism]"

    Andrew Kolvet claims that he was a cradle Catholic and "became a Christian in college" (I.e. apostatized). He says he and Erika share that experience.

    Alex Clark claims there is an Instagram post from Erika of her and Charlie at mass. A user commented, "are you converting?". Erika responded "No, we just like going sometimes"
    I like in the early age of the Church even Catechumans were not allowed into the mass to witness the Divine Sacrifice. Catechumans left after mass of the Catechumans, so how is it these modern Catholics allow anyone and everyone to attend something so Sacred and Holy?