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Author Topic: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump  (Read 13053 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2024, 09:12:47 AM »
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  • Tell me you haven't read St Faustina's Diary without telling me you haven't read St Faustina's Diary... Magenta LOL, dude... The answer is literally in the chaplet. It's laugh or cry at such ignorance and tells me straight up he is not being honest. 

    "For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world."

    Furthermore, something else I would like to mention, so he talks about Pope John XXIII, the Pope who launched and presided over Vatican II and yet you reject Vatican II but the Pope who launched and presided over it you believe had perfect advisors and thus got it all totally right?

    Furthermore, when does the Papacy end and how long are you to be orphans? How long do you leave the Papacy for and yet somehow expect to get back into the Papacy? 60 years? 100 years? 200 years? Is there a time limit on this? Any self reflection? And on what grounds do you do so? I reject Bergoglio not because of what he has said and done for I don't have authority over the Pope, but because we already had a validly elected Pope who was clearly usurped.

    God Bless

    You'll find that many if not most traditional Catholics reject Faustina and her false mercy. The novus ordo folks really like Faustina, because they believe that they get the mercy without repentance, and going to confession is not something the novus ordo crowd likes to do.

    As Fr. Burfitt mentions, Faustina's diary was condemned three times by two different popes before Vatican ll, until JP2 promoted it. But then, Sr. Faustina was Polish, so I think that had something to do with it.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline josh987654321

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #61 on: October 30, 2024, 09:24:09 AM »
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  • You'll find that many if not most traditional Catholics reject Faustina and her false mercy. The novus ordo folks really like Faustina, because they believe that they get the mercy without repentance, and going to confession is not something the novus ordo crowd likes to do.

    The irony (especially because I think it has one of the best pieces for confession I have read). I know why many traditionalists reject it, guilty by association, which is why I would need a new thread to discuss it all, these are mostly just character assassinations instead of refuting what I said and thus not serious discussions, furthermore, I can tell whether someone is being honest or not by the criticism they use, as I know what's fabricated and what's not.

    Furthermore, it's private revelation so one doesn't have to believe it, some day it'll be an interesting discussion to have and even if you still disagree you will at least understand it, but others bringing it up here is mostly just for character assassination IMO.

    There are two things I have read regarding St Faustina's diary that have shaken me before... but there is something else that has greatly reaffirmed me, so there is some legitimate criticism, but I am certainly sure enough and there is a whole bunch of just bogus criticism. 

    God Bless


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #62 on: October 30, 2024, 09:34:12 AM »
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    Pope Benedict XVI was not perfect, but he was our Holy Father whether you like it or not and he was trying to bring back tradition and was surrounded on all sides making his usurpation easy.
    No.  If he wanted to bring back tradition, he would've condemned V2 and the new mass.  But he didn't, because those are his theological accomplishments, having been at V2 and helping to usher in the 'updating' of the Church.

    Benedict helped to bring back the TLM, but the Traditional liturgy cannot survive without Traditional doctrine (i.e. pre-V2 orthodoxy).

    Doctrine/Faith > Liturgy.

    Benedict brought back the "smells and bells" of the liturgy, but he never wavered on his commitment to Modernism/V2.  

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #63 on: October 30, 2024, 09:34:24 AM »
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  • The irony (especially because I think it has one of the best pieces for confession I have read). I know why many traditionalists reject it, guilty by association, which is why I would need a new thread to discuss it all, these are mostly just character assassinations instead of refuting what I said and thus not serious discussions, furthermore, I can tell whether someone is being honest or not by the criticism they use, as I know what's fabricated and what's not.

    Furthermore, it's private revelation so one doesn't have to believe it, some day it'll be an interesting discussion to have and even if you still disagree you will at least understand it, but others bringing it up here is mostly just for character assassination IMO.

    God Bless

    I read most of Faustina's diary many years ago. I don't recall any great writing on confession. What is your understanding of why two popes condemned Faustina's diary?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline josh987654321

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #64 on: October 30, 2024, 09:46:51 AM »
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  • What is your understanding of why two popes condemned Faustina's diary?

    It's not even about St Faustina's Diary... lets get real... it's about who we think are valid Popes and who we think are not.

    In terms of the condemnations, as said, one of them was Pope John XXIII who launched and presided over Vatican II which we all agree was a serious problem, so I don't know what to make of them all, but there was certainly darkness and infiltration going on.

    In any case, the USA Church Committee, assassination of JFK, RFK and more were all the same time period as Vatican II and they absolutely had a hand in all that, so this is bigger than just the Church, all the more reason why the USA Deep State needs to go down and the full truth come out IMO.

    God Bless


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #65 on: October 30, 2024, 09:52:49 AM »
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  • It's not even about St Faustina's Diary... lets get real... it's about who we think are valid Popes and who we think are not.

    In terms of the condemnations, as said, one of them was Pope John XXIII who launched and presided over Vatican II which we all agree was a serious problem, so I don't know what to make of them all, but there was certainly darkness and infiltration going on.

    In any case, the USA Church Committee, assassination of JFK, RFK and more were all the same time period as Vatican II and they absolutely had a hand in all that, so this is bigger than just the Church, all the more reason why the USA Deep State needs to go down and the full truth come out.

    God Bless

    That's not an answer. I asked about why two popes before Vatican ll condemned Faustina's diary. I don't see that it has anything to do with the validity of popes. They are all valid IMO. All the Popes during and after Vll were Modernists though. Do you agree that they were Modernists? JP2 was the worst of the bunch until Francis came along. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #66 on: October 30, 2024, 09:54:58 AM »
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  • No.  If he wanted to bring back tradition, he would've condemned V2 and the new mass.  But he didn't, because those are his theological accomplishments, having been at V2 and helping to usher in the 'updating' of the Church.

    Benedict helped to bring back the TLM, but the Traditional liturgy cannot survive without Traditional doctrine (i.e. pre-V2 orthodoxy).

    Doctrine/Faith > Liturgy.

    Benedict brought back the "smells and bells" of the liturgy, but he never wavered on his commitment to Modernism/V2. 

    Ganswein later admitted that Benedict's intention in issuing the Motu was in fact to lure Traditional Catholics back into the Conciliar Church.

    Offline josh987654321

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #67 on: October 30, 2024, 09:56:32 AM »
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  • Ganswein later admitted that Benedict's intention in issuing the Motu was in fact to lure Traditional Catholics back into the Conciliar Church.

    Like I said though, Ganswein absolutely had that intention because he betrayed Pope Benedict XVI also, you cannot trust anything Ganswein told you. 

    God Bless


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #68 on: October 30, 2024, 10:17:02 AM »
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    you cannot trust anything Ganswein told you. 
    Who cares what this guy said?  We know exactly what +Benedict said in his "motu" letter to all the bishops...he said (paraphrasing):  "Yes, I'm expanding the TLM.  Don't worry, i'm not abandoning V2 or the new mass."


    Benedict had all the time in the world, and all the power in the Church, to condemn V2 and the new mass.  He never did.  He was NOT a traditionalist, nor was he orthodox.

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #69 on: October 30, 2024, 10:21:09 AM »
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  • The irony (especially because I think it has one of the best pieces for confession I have read). I know why many traditionalists reject it, guilty by association, which is why I would need a new thread to discuss it all, these are mostly just character assassinations instead of refuting what I said and thus not serious discussions, furthermore, I can tell whether someone is being honest or not by the criticism they use, as I know what's fabricated and what's not.
    [...]
    There are two things I have read regarding St Faustina's diary that have shaken me before... but there is something else that has greatly reaffirmed me, so there is some legitimate criticism, but I am certainly sure enough and there is a whole bunch of just bogus criticism. 

    Yes, please do start another thread so as not to continue to derail multiple other threads.

    Yet before you start that new thread, perhaps it would be helpful for you to read this older and more comprehensive thread carefully (especially since you claim somehow to "know what's fabricated and what's not" -- by what means do you possess this knowledge?): https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/investigation-of-the-divine-mercy-devotion/ 
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline josh987654321

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #70 on: October 30, 2024, 10:33:56 AM »
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  • Yes, please do start another thread so as not to continue to derail multiple other threads.

    Maybe you should read the thread before you accuse me of something I'm not guilty of. 


    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #71 on: October 30, 2024, 10:40:23 AM »
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  • Maybe you should read the thread before you accuse me of something I'm not guilty of.

    :confused:  The title of THIS here thread happens to be: "Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump"

    Please stay on topic. Take the DM/Faustina stuff elsewhere.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #72 on: October 30, 2024, 10:49:19 AM »
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  • :confused:  The title of THIS here thread happens to be: "Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump"

    Please stay on topic. Take the DM/Faustina stuff elsewhere.

    To be fair, it wasn't Josh who started the divine mercy subject. The new forum member oxenandaves started the subject, as a response to Josh putting the Faustina quote in his posts. I do hope that Josh will start a new thread on what seems to be his favorite subject. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #73 on: October 30, 2024, 11:03:33 AM »
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  • To be fair, it wasn't Josh who started the divine mercy subject. The new forum member oxenandaves started the subject, as a response to Josh putting the Faustina quote in his posts. I do hope that Josh will start a new thread on what seems to be his favorite subject.

    Yes, in fairness that's true. But there's a defendable difference between, on one hand, oxenandaves citing josh's DM fandom in order to question josh's political arguments vs., on the other hand, josh taking oxen's skepticism as an irresistible prompt to go galloping on and on again here on this thread after his favorite subject indeed.... :cowboy:
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #74 on: October 30, 2024, 11:05:01 AM »
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  • Yes, in fairness that's true. But there's a defendable difference between, on one hand, oxenandaves citing josh's DM fandom in order to question josh's political arguments vs., on the other hand, josh taking oxen's skepticism as an irresistible prompt to go galloping on and on again here on this thread after his favorite subject indeed.... :cowboy:

    True!
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29