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Author Topic: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump  (Read 13055 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2024, 10:46:23 PM »
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  • This election is all about practical results.  Both candidates are immoral to some degree.  Both anti-catholic.  But which candidate will persecute the Church less?  Trump obviously.  All those Blue states during Covid tried to shut down Masses and churches to stop prayers.  If the Dems win, the next pandemic would follow nation-wide rules directly from the WHO.  Blue state or red.  Won’t matter. 

    Or they’ll just unleash antifa/migrant pagans on churches in terror attacks. 

    The coming cινιℓ ωαr will be the godless vs the believers.  I’d rather have Trump, even if he’s a fake, because he’d have to play along on our side.  I don’t think he’d close churches.  Or support antifa. 

    You can all whine and moan that Trump isn’t catholic but when the rubber meets the road, and there’s fire in the streets or attacks on churches, or groceries have food shortages or migrants start bombing buildings, … who would you rather have as President? Kamala or Trump?

    Offline NishantXavier

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #31 on: October 23, 2024, 01:27:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    It wouldn't matter if Trump were running against the Antichrist. 
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    Now, to determine whether it's licit to vote for Trump, one can apply double effect


    :facepalm: The bolded shows you are misunderstanding double effect as it applies to voting. Of course it would matter if Trump were running against the Antichrist, and 99% of Catholics and the trad clergy know that and would tell you. But you think you know better than them, so ...

    Let's begin. Let's start with the example of double effect you agreed with on the other thread, that of killing a terrorist while minimizing civilian deaths/collateral damage. The bolded is like saying, "of course I can kill a terrorist if I want to. It doesn't matter if one person dies near him, OR ONE MILLION PEOPLE DIE". That's zionist israel's reasoning and its as false as the above. Of course the number of people that die matter because that is factored into the "proportionality condition" of double effect. Let's recap double effect.

    Double effect: "This set of criteria states that, if an action has foreseeable harmful effects that are practically inseparable from the good effect, it is justifiable if the following are true:
    • the nature of the act is itself good, or at least morally neutral;
    • the agent intends the good effect and does not intend the bad effect, either as a means to the good or as an end in itself;
    • the good effect outweighs the bad effect in circuмstances sufficiently grave to justify causing the bad effect and the agent exercises due diligence to minimize the harm.[2]"


    Since, as even you agreed on another thread, the good of gaining a pro life victory would sufficiently outweigh the effect of even an otherwise pro life candidate being for birth control, it clearly follows the good of supporting a moderately pro-life platform like Trump-Vance outweighs "the Antichrist" and the same applies to hαɾɾιs' pro-abort platform. I agree with you double effect is the operative principle. One doesn't need any other principle.


    Offline NishantXavier

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #32 on: October 23, 2024, 01:33:39 AM »
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  • Novus Ordo CINOs would obey Vigano... why? And Evangelicals would listen to Vigano... how so?
    Well, as Cera mentioned, a good number of Evangelicals and even mainstream Catholics do listen to Vigano, read Lifesitenews etc. Vigano is doing his job as a good bishop and a faithful shepherd admonishing Catholics how to vote and the operative principles of pushing their elected representatives to be more pro life. As to how many millions that impacts or doesn't impact, that is up to God. Vigano did his job by giving guidance and those who want to be led by its light can be. For others, discuss with your confessor and go with what he says. I bet 99% of trad clergy would agree with Vigano on this. And, last time, once in office, Trump in fact allowed Catholics at the federalist society like Leonard Leo to do whatever they want to and appoint whichever judge they wanted to, and he appointed them. https://www.propublica.org/article/we-dont-talk-about-leonard-leo-supreme-court-supermajority That's what overturned Roe v Wade. Trump, by wishing Mother Mary on her birthday on Twitter, by posting a prayer to St. Michael the Archangel, by praising a Polish Catholic priest who died under Communism, and empowering those like Leonard Leo, has sufficiently demonstrated pro life Catholics will continue to have great influence and power in his administration, like they did in the earlier one that led to the great victory of Roe v Wade being overturned.

    Offline josh987654321

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #33 on: October 24, 2024, 09:49:22 PM »
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  • PDF version - https://exsurgedomine.it/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Open-Letter-to-American-Catholics-Presidential-Election-2024.pdf

    Very good letter and I completely agree.

    "Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."

    God Bless

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #34 on: October 28, 2024, 04:03:18 PM »
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  • Ohh, how shocking.

    It seems that elections have the power to take people to extremes. And Vigano is not even American.

    Well… being the Papal Nuncio to America… it means he’s likely CIA.

    Now, you may think I’m teasing, but Vigano is Opus Dei and they are CIA linked. 

    Think for a moment, which US spy agency had inside reports on the 1958 Conclave?  

    Coincidentally, Jose (jew) Escriva scouted out Sr. Lucia and mocked her after his visit to her convent.

    She was highly agitated in 1957, warning Catholics not to wait for the Pope on Our Lady of Fatima’s requests and then she disappeared shortly after that. 

    That was a CIA/Opus Dei operation.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #35 on: October 28, 2024, 04:07:18 PM »
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  • Well… being the Papal Nuncio to America… it means he’s likely CIA.

    Now, you may think I’m teasing, but Vigano is Opus Dei and they are CIA linked.

    Think for a moment, which US spy agency had inside reports on the 1958 Conclave? 

    Coincidentally, Jose (Jєω) Escriva scouted out Sr. Lucia and mocked her after his visit to her convent.

    She was highly agitated in 1957, warning Catholics not to wait for the Pope on Our Lady of Fatima’s requests and then she disappeared shortly after that.

    That was a CIA/Opus Dei operation.
    Do you think that all this secret destruction of the Catholic Church has a counterpart?  Wouldn't God set up something counter to the bad guys per se?  Does any one think that God has?

    Or has God just left us to the whims of those who hate Catholicism?
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline October1917

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #36 on: October 28, 2024, 05:17:19 PM »
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  • Yes, I too believe that +Vigano is an operative ...another leader of the controlled opposition ...to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #37 on: October 28, 2024, 06:37:49 PM »
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  • +Vigano endorses Trump, he tells Catholics "abstaining is allying with the enemy." 

    So Trump is not the enemy of Catholicism? 

    No he is a man living in the current world.  I don't think he is trying to bring down Catholicism.

    Pro LGBtqrst? 

    We live in a world where this ideology is rampant.  It didn't pop up over night and it will not go away over night.  How exactly is Trump supporting them through government?

     Pro-Israel genocide? 

    The USA has supported Israel for years.  Why would this change overnight?

    Pro-abortion? 

    This issue currently doesn't belong to the federal government.  It is back in the hands of the states.

    Isn't +Vigano grouping Catholics with the enemy and therefore an enemy, for not endorsing Trump?

    Exactly who is the enemy?  I believe the enemy is Satan, and he is very good at getting people to divide.  This is just an election in the country God had us be born.  We have an obligation to our civic duty.  I think that at this point God will not condemn those who choose to abstain or those who choose to vote for Trump, because there are so many conflicting responses, and no authority to follow.

    Isn't this a bullying tactic?

    It might feel that way, but I am not sure he intended to be a bully.  I just think those who will vote for Trump feel like they will at least know what the next 4 years will look like.  With Kamala as president, things will probably get very anti-religious.

    I know we are all tired of the slippery slope that is taking people further and further away from God, but as you have said in other posts we need to double down on prayer and penance.

    I was meaning to answer, but life got busy.

    Prayers for all!!!:pray::pray::pray:
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"


    Offline Michelle

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #38 on: October 28, 2024, 07:56:43 PM »
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  • Yes, I too believe that +Vigano is an operative ...another leader of the controlled opposition ...to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
    If faithful Catholics could grasp the psychological tactics and really understand that satan will employ every means using his human instruments to wipe the faith(dogma) from the earth.  To deceive the elect, he will tell 99 truths to get in one lie.
    Saul Alinsky was once asked how he managed to manipulate the Catholics in Chicago.  He replied by saying, he would first align himself with their needs, problems and concerns, like working conditions in the factories and fare wages, etc, and once he gained their trust he would slowly and incrementally inject his liberal views like birth control into their minds to slowly change them.
    Communist subversion agent, Yeri Bemenzov said the same thing.

    "Be wise as a serpent but simple as a dove"

    Offline josh987654321

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #39 on: October 28, 2024, 09:17:57 PM »
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  • Communist subversion agent, Yeri Bemenzov said the same thing.

    He also said that subversion was a two way street. 

    Constantine the Great and his father had to abide by the decrees of Diocletian during the Diocletian persecutions, but they did so as mildly as possible, condemn them? If so, there goes the early Church, over before it even begins. 

    "Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."

    God Bless

    Offline OxenandAves

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #40 on: October 28, 2024, 09:46:57 PM »
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  • He also said that subversion was a two way street.

    Constantine the Great and his father had to abide by the decrees of Diocletian during the Diocletian persecutions, but they did so as mildly as possible, condemn them? If so, there goes the early Church, over before it even begins.

    "Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."

    God Bless
    This argument is the same the logic the Novus Ordo use to defend their “communion” in their hand. “Well a bunch of guys did it in their hand early era (it was condemned) so we can do it too!

    Your conscience is grasping at straws so that you don’t have to convert, we convert daily, give this anxiety of your economy etc. to Our Lady, you can stop advocating for abortion now, and choose the Catholic alternative.


    Offline josh987654321

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #41 on: October 28, 2024, 09:59:40 PM »
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  • This argument is the same the logic the Novus Ordo use to defend their “communion” in their hand. “Well a bunch of guys did it in their hand early era (it was condemned) so we can do it too!

    Your conscience is grasping at straws so that you don’t have to convert, we convert daily, give this anxiety of your economy etc. to Our Lady, you can stop advocating for abortion now, and choose the Catholic alternative.

    Yes it is, only their argument was not genuine, because of course, even in a N.O. they could receive on the tongue themselves, so if they are choosing not to of free choice, then they are not genuine, they are lying. 

    You talk about conversions, but look around, you are losing more and more ground every day to the point there is the usurper Bergoglio. Am I to wait another 50 years, another 100 years? when do you reflect on yourself? 

    "Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."

    God Bless

    Offline OxenandAves

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #42 on: October 28, 2024, 10:02:36 PM »
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  • Yes it is, only their argument was not genuine, because of course, even in a N.O. they could receive on the tongue themselves, so if they are choosing not to of free choice, then they are not genuine, they are lying.

    You talk about conversions, but look around, you are losing more and more ground every day to the point there is the usurper Bergoglio. Am I to wait another 50 years, another 100 years? when do you reflect on yourself?

    "Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."

    God Bless
    1)The NO “sacraments” are dubious and doubtful. I personally hold the opinion they are now completely invalid.

    2) Our Lady prophesied what is happening in our days, and when she did, she didn’t say compromise on the Catholic faith.


    Offline josh987654321

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #43 on: October 28, 2024, 10:32:40 PM »
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  • 2) Our Lady prophesied what is happening in our days, and when she did, she didn’t say compromise on the Catholic faith.

    You don't compromise on the faith by working toward common goals, I know life begins at conception, but something has to be done to turn this around and nobody goes to bed a sinner and wakes up a saint, not on the individual level or the societal level... I will obviously jump at any opportunity to prevent and limit this wholesale and barbaric slaughter of innocents, and in light of the alternative... what do I have to lose by trying?

    Constantine the Great and his father knew the Diocletian Persecutions were wrong (St Helena), but there was nothing they could do at the time other than what they did do, which was to implement Diocletian's decrees as mildly as possible in their portion of the Empire until Constantine the Great got his chance... to spurn such graces is madness and if you do so, then you will deserve judgement IMO.

    "Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."

    God Bless

    Offline OxenandAves

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    Re: Archbishop Viganò endorses Trump
    « Reply #44 on: October 28, 2024, 11:02:19 PM »
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  • You don't compromise on the faith by working toward common goals, I know life begins at conception, but something has to be done to turn this around and nobody goes to bed a sinner and wakes up a saint, not on the individual level or the societal level... I will obviously jump at any opportunity to prevent and limit this wholesale and barbaric slaughter of innocents, and in light of the alternative... what do I have to lose by trying?

    Constantine the Great and his father knew the Diocletian Persecutions were wrong (St Helena), but there was nothing they could do at the time other than what they did do, which was to implement Diocletian's decrees as mildly as possible in their portion of the Empire until Constantine the Great got his chance... to spurn such graces is madness and if you do so, then you will deserve judgement IMO.

    "Our Lady of Victory, Ark of the New Covenant, Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, Pray for us."

    God Bless
    Gradualism, incrementalism are all forms of comprimise, liberalism has infected many souls to think they are doing the right thing in the form of liberty.

    The Rosary said properly and with pure intention is how we restore Christ The King, it is not by giving your John Hancock on a Candidate who endorses early child sacrifice.

    You know this in your heart already, and you are posting this nonsense to try and convince yourself, but you know it is wrong in your heart.