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Author Topic: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?  (Read 2982 times)

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Offline Marcelino

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Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2017, 11:57:22 PM »
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  • at this time I don't buy the one gunman thing.. that Oswald acted entirely alone. I guess it's possible. but I have better things to do than go into details that the devil is in.
    I thought with all the newly released docuмents by The Trump Administration, it had become clearer that The CIA had killed him.  

    Offline Marcelino

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #16 on: December 27, 2017, 11:59:07 PM »
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  • I thought with all the newly released docuмents by The Trump Administration, it had become clearer that The CIA had killed him.  
    Apparently, Oswald was part of a program for U.S. Marines to pretend to defect to The USSR and act as double agents and, unfortunately, he was betrayed.  


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #17 on: December 28, 2017, 12:24:05 AM »
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  • The United States was discovered by Catholics.  As usual, the Protestants took over and murdered and erased Catholic history.   The USA was still under attack during 1812 by England.  Look at England and France now -  slaves of satan.

    American troops aren't overseas fighting for democracy and freedom.  They are fighting for greedy politicians obsession for oil.  

    "all the evil in the world is because of lukewarm Catholics" St Pope Pius V





    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 12:51:55 PM »
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  • I thought with all the newly released docuмents by The Trump Administration, it had become clearer that The CIA had killed him.  
    that sounds about right... i mean you see whawt the FBI is doing these days and i personally have seen all kinds of weird govt *&%$#@
    so yeh... we just don't trust our gov anymore. I can see why a non-politician won this time and i hope he PURGES 
    the govt. 
    too much wrong for way too long
    >:(

    Offline Marcelino

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #19 on: December 28, 2017, 10:28:07 PM »
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  • that sounds about right... i mean you see whawt the FBI is doing these days and i personally have seen all kinds of weird govt *&%$#@
    so yeh... we just don't trust our gov anymore. I can see why a non-politician won this time and i hope he PURGES
    the govt.
    too much wrong for way too long
    >:(
    No doubt.  It's neat how they release this stuff, presumably after the guilty parties are dead.  Apparently, during The Clinton Administration lots of docuмents were released that had poured out of the former Soviet Union.  Among these were the Venona docuмents which were said to vindicate Senator McCarthy for claiming that he had a list of Communist in our own State Dept, many of whom were on the "payroll of the soviet union."  It seems that everyone he named was guilty.  


    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #20 on: December 29, 2017, 03:15:31 PM »
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  • No doubt.  It's neat how they release this stuff, presumably after the guilty parties are dead.  Apparently, during The Clinton Administration lots of docuмents were released that had poured out of the former Soviet Union.  Among these were the Venona docuмents which were said to vindicate Senator McCarthy for claiming that he had a list of Communist in our own State Dept, many of whom were on the "payroll of the soviet union."  It seems that everyone he named was guilty.  
    I never did think McCarthy was "over-reacting" or whatever
    the thing is, some in DC (all? most?) will over look just about anything, just so as to go along to get along.. They know there is terrible evil in Deep State but it seems they are all afraid to do anything about it..
    I  can u/stand the fear but something needs to be done.. If you let a teen get away w/ all kinds of rule-breaking, well, what do you get?
    a mess
    but until the culprits are brought to account, it will always be a mess. But I wonder if anyone in DC cares?

    Offline Marcelino

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #21 on: December 29, 2017, 08:54:52 PM »
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  • I never did think McCarthy was "over-reacting" or whatever
    the thing is, some in DC (all? most?) will over look just about anything, just so as to go along to get along.. They know there is terrible evil in Deep State but it seems they are all afraid to do anything about it..
    I  can u/stand the fear but something needs to be done.. If you let a teen get away w/ all kinds of rule-breaking, well, what do you get?
    a mess
    but until the culprits are brought to account, it will always be a mess. But I wonder if anyone in DC cares?
    Yeah, I remember James Traficante tried to stand up to it and his career was ruined over it.  I don't know how it's going to end.  One thing for sure is, they are driving the birth rate down to unsustainable levels.  Definitely, killing the goose that laid the golden egg.  

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #22 on: January 03, 2018, 02:48:36 PM »
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  • No doubt.  It's neat how they release this stuff, presumably after the guilty parties are dead.  Apparently, during The Clinton Administration lots of docuмents were released that had poured out of the former Soviet Union.  Among these were the Venona docuмents which were said to vindicate Senator McCarthy for claiming that he had a list of Communist in our own State Dept, many of whom were on the "payroll of the soviet union."  It seems that everyone he named was guilty.  
    even years ago when i was far less cynical, I knew this would be the case, that things would not be fully revealed until all the principle players were gone...
    our country is in SAD shape..
    everyone, and I mean everyone no matter his/her resources, should do SOMETHING ... even if it seems like a drop in the ocean.. to make our country better. The ocean is made up of bzillions of drops. 
    But sadly, most people are busy playing w/ their addictive machines.. trying to ESCAPE from the often-creepy world we live in rather than help fix it


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #23 on: January 03, 2018, 03:08:57 PM »
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  • well, I agree for the most part. I am a capitalist but not one for unfettered capitalism.
    I don't know what the answer is to the problem of the HUGE disparity between rich and poor. I am not a socialist or anything close to it.
    oh, another thing.. I don't think all or maybe even most of the Founders were neglecting to take into account our sinful nature. I think it was Hamilton who said that if we were angels we wouldn't need government and if we are not Christian or something like that.. the laws they make will be to no effect. Yeh, i know, I just butchered it but you get the gist.
    anyway... hmmm... Do u think we have unbridled capitalism to the point of.. servile state?

    I missed your response above to my post, so I'll respond to it now.

    I think you're right that the founders did not neglect to take in to account sinful nature, but not from a religious view of it, but from a secular notion, since even humanists can see that people can sin. I think what they didn't take into account is man's inherent sinful nature, due to original sin. If they had, then they would see that "all men being free" would eventually lead to big problems, especially with religious liberty. It's my opinion that they thought that if men could just be free, then they would generally chose the right thing. But that's not what happened. I'm probably not explaining it very well.

    Yes, we do have unbridled capitalism to the point of the servile state, since so many of us work for other people - often corporations - like I do. We are "wage earners" and that's the problem. We help to make wealth for others at the top. No, I'm not a socialist or Marxist or libertarian or anything like that. According to Belloc, the servile state exists when most of us do not own the means of production for our own benefit, or wealth. Not that we have to be wealthy at all, only that we should have control over our work life, which we don't really have now.

    In a wage-earner society, the masses of people are more easily controlled, because we are dependent on our employers, and the political system tends to benefit the employers.

    The labor unions are tolerated, because even though the unions give workers more money and benefits, the unions prop up the whole servile state in that they aren't adverse to the corporations employing masses of people, as long as the corporations pay a fair wage and benefits.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #24 on: January 03, 2018, 03:12:39 PM »
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  • I missed your response above to my post, so I'll respond to it now.

    I think you're right that the founders did not neglect to take in to account sinful nature, but not from a religious view of it, but from a secular notion, since even humanists can see that people can sin. I think that they didn't take into account is man's inherent sinful nature, due to original sin. If they had, then they would see that "all men being free" would eventually lead to big problems, especially with religious liberty. It's my opinion that they thought that if men could just be free, then they would generally chose the right thing. But that's not what happened. I'm probably not explaining it very well.

    Yes, we do have unbridled capitalism to the point of the servile state, since so many of us work for other people - often corporations. We are "wage earners" and that's the problem. We help to make wealth for others at the top. No, I'm not a socialist or Marxist or libertarian or anything like that. According to Belloc, the servile state exists when most of us do not own the means of production for our own benefit, or wealth. Not that we have to be wealthy at all, only that we should have control over our work life, which we don't really have now.

    In a wage-earner society, the masses of people are more easily controlled, because we are dependent on our employers, and the political system tends to benefit the employers.

    The labor unions are tolerated, because even though the unions give workers more money and benefits, the unions prop up the whole servile state in that they aren't adverse to the corporations employing masses of people, as long as the corporations pay a fair wage and benefits.
    long story, but I am running out of time. I read some of this, copied it to read all later
    I have seen many strange things in th news and so I tend to agree, but again haven't read the whole post yet
    I think a lot of wealthy americans who have never been poor literally have NO clue what they go through and all the obstacles they face.. They can't just wake up some morning and say
    Hmm... I think i will become rich
    and a year later they are wealthy, when they have been poor all their lives... doesn't work like that.. You can have the desire to be rich all you want but that doesn't mean it will happen.. It CAN happen and that is why I like the American system.. but most people never get rich or even well off

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #25 on: January 03, 2018, 03:23:29 PM »
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  • long story, but I am running out of time. I read some of this, copied it to read all later
    I have seen many strange things in th news and so I tend to agree, but again haven't read the whole post yet
    I think a lot of wealthy americans who have never been poor literally have NO clue what they go through and all the obstacles they face.. They can't just wake up some morning and say
    Hmm... I think i will become rich
    and a year later they are wealthy, when they have been poor all their lives... doesn't work like that.. You can have the desire to be rich all you want but that doesn't mean it will happen.. It CAN happen and that is why I like the American system.. but most people never get rich or even well off

    I agree that someone can have the desire to become rich, but that doesn't mean it will happen. I think that many have gained wealth from having their own businesses, more often than not. 

    Indeed, most people don't get rich, but compared to how our grandparents or great-grandparents lived, we are pretty well off in comparison, even though many still struggle even to put enough food on the table. But we, as a society, have gone off the rails in the moral sense. 

    I personally wouldn't mind being poor, but my husband isn't too keen on the idea of moving to a shack in the desert and living off the land.  :)
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #26 on: January 03, 2018, 06:58:16 PM »
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  • Disillusioned? Yes. How could we kids who were raised to believe that we were the 'good-guys'; to  be patriotic, enlist to serve our country, trust our various officials who had our best interests at heart, et al ... not be disillusioned? We were told that if we worked hard and played by the rules we would come out 'on top'. We're on top of something alright, but I can't see what it is through all the flies. 
     



    Offline Marcelino

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #27 on: January 04, 2018, 11:15:22 PM »
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  • even years ago when i was far less cynical, I knew this would be the case, that things would not be fully revealed until all the principle players were gone...
    our country is in SAD shape..
    everyone, and I mean everyone no matter his/her resources, should do SOMETHING ... even if it seems like a drop in the ocean.. to make our country better. The ocean is made up of bzillions of drops.
    But sadly, most people are busy playing w/ their addictive machines.. trying to ESCAPE from the often-creepy world we live in rather than help fix it
    I guess I think that's what seeking the truth and sharing it with others who are interested can do.   

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Are you just totally disillusioned w/ America?
    « Reply #28 on: January 06, 2018, 12:53:54 PM »
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  • Disillusioned? Yes. How could we kids who were raised to believe that we were the 'good-guys'; to  be patriotic, enlist to serve our country, trust our various officials who had our best interests at heart, et al ... not be disillusioned? We were told that if we worked hard and played by the rules we would come out 'on top'. We're on top of something alright, but I can't see what it is through all the flies.
     
    I know the feeling
    but we have to remind ourselves (not so easily  said as done..) that we really ARE on top of something
    Some one, rather --  his Church .. although saying we are top of the Church doesn't sound good but you get my drift.
    the devil likes to have us getting our values out of whack, thinking good is evil and evil good
    but some day everything will be topsy turvy and the bad guys will be... where they belong. They seem to prosper in this world and that is bc as Jesus said, the world loves its own (paraphrase)