Author Topic: R & R for Tɾυmρ  (Read 550 times)

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Offline klasG4e

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R & R for Tɾυmρ
« on: January 07, 2020, 06:01:37 AM »
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  • If I'm not mistaken CathInfo is sort of known as being made up mostly of R & R (Recognize and Resist) members -- even still -- regardless of how bad things have gotten with the current putative pope.  When that pope's actions or lack thereof are roundly criticized on CathInfo not very many join poche's rescue squad.  But when it comes to Tɾυmρ a whole different dynamic seems to take over.

    Just observe how some of those same R & R members seem to take such quick and righteous offense and become extremely defensive of Tɾυmρ when one while never questioning in the least way the legitimacy of Tɾυmρ's presidency, nevertheless strongly criticize some of his actions or lack thereof.  Interesting phenomenon!

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #1 on: January 07, 2020, 07:20:07 AM »
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  • Are you sede-oval-office-vacant?  Haha. How does one “question his legitimacy”?  I’m interested to understand how you *think* this works?   :laugh2:


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #2 on: January 07, 2020, 07:54:31 AM »
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  • I’m more R and R than anything else.  I don’t like Tɾυmρ.  I think he’s a shill for the Zionist lobby and the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ lobby

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #3 on: January 07, 2020, 09:50:11 AM »
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  • Just observe how some of those same R & R members seem to take such quick and righteous offense and become extremely defensive of Tɾυmρ when one while never questioning in the least way the legitimacy of Tɾυmρ's presidency, nevertheless strongly criticize some of his actions or lack thereof.  Interesting phenomenon!

    I have said myself, Tɾυmρ has faults. I don't like his pro-Israel stance. I also disapprove of his religion (Presbyterian?) and his adultery. He obviously has issues with pride, which is quite common with high-flying businessmen, TV personalities and other leaders, so that's par for the course.

    The reason for my "defensiveness" is simple: I want Tɾυmρ to win re-ɛƖɛctıon. I want 4 more years. Plus, I can't stand stupidity. I can't hope for anything more than Tɾυmρ, and neither can any of you. Asking for better than Tɾυmρ is ASKING TOO MUCH. If you're honestly hoping for or expecting some Trad Catholic third-party candidate to win the next ɛƖɛctıon, you are literally INSANE. Such a person should play the lottery, since he has no concept of numbers or odds.

    The political situation in the USA does not permit some reactionary Trad Catholic candidate to win the presidency at this time. Anyone who "disagrees" is either stupid or crazy. What else do you call a person who is completely detached from reality? You know, those people who think men and women are the same except for how they go pee, or those who think men can menstruate? They're crazy and/or stupid.

    Now one could VOTE FOR a third party without being stupid per se, as long as he doesn't expect him to win. But if you really think a third party could win -- you're stupid.

    So what ARE you hoping will ACTUALLY happen this November? One of the major candidates is GOING TO win the thing. You want Bıdɛn to win? You want Buttigieg? Or do you HOPE that Tɾυmρ wins?
    Or more likely, you probably hope that a big asteroid smashes into earth and kicks off the Chastisement. I don't. I'm not ready yet. As I've said several times, I don't have a full bunker equipped with years of supplies/equipment along with TONS of survival skills tucked away in my brain. I, for one, could use more years to prepare.

    Last but not least, I think it's shallow to criticize the best president we've had for decades, while offering no alternative. Who are we supposed to vote for then? At least offer an alternative. It's easy to criticize; everyone's a critic. How about stepping up and lighting a candle rather than just cursing the darkness, and then maybe we can have a discussion?
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #4 on: January 07, 2020, 09:56:40 AM »
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  • I agree with Mathew.  
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #5 on: January 07, 2020, 10:07:40 AM »
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  • I was a volunteer for the first Tɾυmρ campaign. I will vote again for Tɾυmρ. What are my choices? Bernie or (gulp) Hillary??
    To me, Tɾυmρ is one of the most persecuted humans in history- how he takes it is beyond me. I pray for his health. However....
    We know he is not a person of faith ( which is what it is for a political office) when morally he is all over the board with  ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, eschewing America first for Israel first, immigration et al.  A lot of dissapointments here, but I admit, I'll never know the back story.
    As Catholics I think ( if we vote at all) we HAVE to vote Tɾυmρ because of the unborn. He certainly is the most pro-life President ever and we have to have him to continue appointing federal judges and hopefully more Supreme Court judges.
    I hate all the neocon stuff that he has been sucked into, but if the Donald is able to overturn Roe with his actions, he will be the best President in the history of our country ,bar none.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #6 on: January 07, 2020, 10:07:50 AM »
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  • It would be hilarious if the Catholic anti-Tɾυmρ crowd put forward some super-ideal candidate, and he turns out to be flawed or a sinner as well!

    Come on, never Tɾυmρers! Let's see your alternative. It's not fair to Tɾυmρ to have to run against "nobody" or "an ideal". Let's get a flesh and blood candidate to compare Tɾυmρ to, so I can choose!

    If your candidate has a single divorce, or used birth control, or supports Israel, or has ANY kind of "past", I might as well vote for Tɾυmρ who actually has a chance of winning.

    Don't be a Nancy Peℓσѕι -- either s*** or get off the pot!
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #7 on: January 07, 2020, 10:08:48 AM »
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  • Are you sede-oval-office-vacant?  Haha. How does one “question his legitimacy”?  I’m interested to understand how you *think* this works?   :laugh2:

    Well, I actually was a oval-office-vacantist during the σbαmα administration.  He was constitutionally ineligible to hold the office.  Alan Keys rightly called him a "usurper".


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #8 on: January 07, 2020, 10:12:26 AM »
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  • I was a volunteer for the first Tɾυmρ campaign. I will vote again for Tɾυmρ. What are my choices? Bernie or (gulp) Hillary??

    Way too many Catholics have bought into "lesser evil" voting.  Lesser Evil is another word for "ends justifies the means" ... which is 100% inimical to Catholic moral reasoning.  Argue double effect if you will, but people need to dump the non-Catholic lesser evil thinking and terminology.  If there is ONE principle that sets Catholic morality apart from all other moral systems, it's the hallowed principle that you can never do evil even in order to prevent a much greater evil.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #9 on: January 07, 2020, 10:21:17 AM »
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  • It would be hilarious if the Catholic anti-Tɾυmρ crowd put forward some super-ideal candidate, and he turns out to be flawed or a sinner as well!

    Personal flaws and sins are not a primary concern.  That is what was mean by an "unworthy" candidate, and Catholics have always been permitted to vote for such.  But that's different from their political positions and their public persona.  That's the same argument you hear about popes, that popes can be sinners.  Yes, of course, but that's entirely distinct from their Magisterium.

    If Donald Tɾυmρ holds any evil POSITIONS, that is what matters.  By evil is meant positively harmful (vs. being negatively deficient).

    Here's an example.  If Candidate A believed in abortion on demand through 9 months, while Candidate B believed in abortion on demand through 3 months only, can I vote for Candidate B?  I have my thoughts, of course, but I'd rather wait to hear what others have to say rather than driving people's thinking here.

    [as a hint:]  Here's a nuance to consider.  What if Candidate B's platform was officially formulated as follows, "I'm in favor of banning abortion after 3 months."

    Online Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #10 on: January 07, 2020, 10:34:43 AM »
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  • Way too many Catholics have bought into "lesser evil" voting.  Lesser Evil is another word for "ends justifies the means" ... which is 100% inimical to Catholic moral reasoning.  Argue double effect if you will, but people need to dump the non-Catholic lesser evil thinking and terminology.  If there is ONE principle that sets Catholic morality apart from all other moral systems, it's the hallowed principle that you can never do evil even in order to prevent a much greater evil.
    I hate the terminology too, but there isn’t necessarily active participation in any evil by voting for someone who will do less evil or if the person is somewhat bad, but there is hope he will do good. I think you’re in agreement with this.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Online Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #11 on: January 07, 2020, 10:38:35 AM »
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  • Well, I actually was a oval-office-vacantist during the σbαmα administration.  He was constitutionally ineligible to hold the office.  Alan Keys rightly called him a "usurper".
    LOL, Father Collins and I used to discuss this often. I agree with you!
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #12 on: January 07, 2020, 11:11:08 AM »
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  • I hate the terminology too, but there isn’t necessarily active participation in any evil by voting for someone who will do less evil or if the person is somewhat bad, but there is hope he will do good. I think you’re in agreement with this.

    Taking into account my scenario, if you have a Candidate who says, "I am in favor of restricting abortion to 3 months," I find that it would be OK.  While it falls SHORT of the ideal, and is evil by defect or deficiency, as stated here it's not a positive evil.  But if the Candidate were to hold, "I am in favor of abortion through the first 3 months," then that's a positive evil.  Everyone keeps saying that it's sinful to vote for a Candidate who is in favor of abortion, but then might backtrack in the type of scenario I presented, where the one guy favors MORE abortion than the other.  They thereby undercut their case that it is intrinsically wrong to vote for a Candidate who favors abortion.  Once people start thinking this way, then it's a slippery slope into justifying for a Pro-Abortion candidate who they think will do less evil than a Pro-Life candidate.  Here's how someone might argue:  "Sure, this RINO candidate SAYS he's against abortion, but it's just lip service and it's unlikely that he'll actually do anything to curb abortion.  But this RINO is a war-hawk and might start an unjust war, whereas the Pro-Abortion candidate would not.  Therefore, I will vote for the Pro-Abortion Candidate as a result of lesser evil."  Very easy slippery slope to that thinking (which, by the way, many Catholics argue when voting for σbαmα) ... if you start with the WRONG principles and slide into Utilitarian argumentation.  If we go by the "degree of evil" to be expected, that's more Protestant utilitarian ethics than Catholic theology.

    Here's Alan Key rejecting the notion that McCain was Pro Life:
    https://www.wnd.com/2008/11/79979/

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #13 on: January 07, 2020, 11:31:45 AM »
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  • Way too many Catholics have bought into "lesser evil" voting.  Lesser Evil is another word for "ends justifies the means" ... which is 100% inimical to Catholic moral reasoning.  Argue double effect if you will, but people need to dump the non-Catholic lesser evil thinking and terminology.  If there is ONE principle that sets Catholic morality apart from all other moral systems, it's the hallowed principle that you can never do evil even in order to prevent a much greater evil.
    I agree with you. I hate the lesser evil scenerio and I didn't think I would submit to it....but how would you handle this situation? Is the unborn a priority no matter what? 60 million plus and counting......It has got to stop and it can't be  compared to any other matter re: relevance. This world is truly evil and it's not black and white. The answer is not politics, for sure. But when I took the matter into my own hands, ( peaceful protests) I wound up in court for years and in jail for months. What do you suggest? What is the moral imperative? 

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: R & R for Tɾυmρ
    « Reply #14 on: January 07, 2020, 12:02:35 PM »
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  • Murder by unjust war and Anglo-Zionist terrorism is as culpable as abortion.


     

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