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Author Topic: R & R for Trump  (Read 734 times)

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Offline josefamenendez

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Re: R & R for Trump
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2020, 12:19:13 PM »
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    • Maybe zionist wars are the punishment for genocide of unborn children? Seems that we gave the judaizers alot of spiritual power since 1973. I know this is a pretty arbitrary statement, but just the sheer numbers have to give you pause. Maybe there is an order to the mayhem.
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: R & R for Trump
    « Reply #16 on: January 07, 2020, 12:37:30 PM »
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    • I live in New York. In my state, particularly, trump winning here is just as unlikely as a third party candidate. My issue with him is not that here’s merely imperfect, but that he’s publically promoting ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and Zionism which are two of the BIGGEST issues in modern politics.  Why shouldn’t I protest vote?  Why should I vote for trump when he won’t even win here anyways?

    I don’t judge those who prudentially decide to vote for trump, especially in a border state.  I think voting is a tactical calculation. On the other hand the only way to truly get an anti war conservative is to refuse to support and vote for those who are pro war.
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: R & R for Trump
    « Reply #17 on: January 07, 2020, 01:37:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 07, 2020, 10:21:17 AM
    Personal flaws and sins are not a primary concern.  That is what was mean by an "unworthy" candidate, and Catholics have always been permitted to vote for such.  But that's different from their political positions and their public persona.  That's the same argument you hear about popes, that popes can be sinners.  Yes, of course, but that's entirely distinct from their Magisterium.

    If Donald Trump holds any evil POSITIONS, that is what matters.  By evil is meant positively harmful (vs. being negatively deficient).

    Here's an example.  If Candidate A believed in abortion on demand through 9 months, while Candidate B believed in abortion on demand through 3 months only, can I vote for Candidate B?  I have my thoughts, of course, but I'd rather wait to hear what others have to say rather than driving people's thinking here.

    [as a hint:]  Here's a nuance to consider.  What if Candidate B's platform was officially formulated as follows, "I'm in favor of banning abortion after 3 months."
    Voting based on how a candidate decides to spin their position doesn't seem nuanced to me, just nonsensical.
    The same Republican with the same views might say "I support banning abortion after 3 months" or "I support allowing abortion only up to 3 months" depending on how liberal his district is. It's just optics, PR spin. Acting like it suddenly goes from permissible to evil to vote for the guy when his position is the exact same is just nonsense. 
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: R & R for Trump
    « Reply #18 on: January 07, 2020, 02:15:46 PM »
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    • Is there any Catholic teaching that says it is not lawful to vote for a candidate who holds one or more evil positions?
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    Offline Praeter

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    Re: R & R for Trump
    « Reply #19 on: January 07, 2020, 03:56:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: ByzCat3000 on January 07, 2020, 02:15:46 PM
    Is there any Catholic teaching that says it is not lawful to vote for a candidate who holds one or more evil positions?
    No, as long as your not voting for him because he holds an evil position.   It is not prohibited to vote for the lesser of two evils when the reason for doing so is to avoid a greater evil, since avoiding a greater evil is itself a positive good.  So, you are really voting for a good, not an evil.  It might even be a venial sin not to vote for the lesser of two evils. 
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    "Schismatics are in another Church even if they agree with the true Church of Christ in faith and doctrine." (Bellarmine, De Ecclesia Militante cap v)

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: R & R for Trump
    « Reply #20 on: January 07, 2020, 11:27:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mark 79 on January 07, 2020, 12:02:35 PM
    Murder by unjust war and Anglo-Zionist terrorism is as culpable as abortion.

    How true, how true, but apparently it is a major inconvenient truth for a good number on CathInfo.

    Sorry, I'm being prevented from giving you a thumbs up on this post.
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    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: R & R for Trump
    « Reply #21 on: January 07, 2020, 11:49:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: josefamenendez on January 07, 2020, 12:19:13 PM
    Maybe zionist wars are the punishment for genocide of unborn children? Seems that we gave the judaizers alot of spiritual power since 1973. I know this is a pretty arbitrary statement, but just the sheer numbers have to give you pause. Maybe there is an order to the mayhem.
    In the same way, tepid and apostate Catholics deserve Jorge.
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: R & R for Trump
    « Reply #22 on: January 07, 2020, 11:54:05 PM »
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    • Quote
     It might even be a venial sin not to vote for the lesser of two evils. 
    I don't buy that either because it enables wicked men to basically keep giving us progressively worse options, knowing we will pick one
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    Offline jtucker

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    Re: R & R for Trump
    « Reply #23 on: January 10, 2020, 12:46:15 PM »
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    • Evil...lesser evil? Nonsense! Evil is evil and a lesser evil is evil in modest disguise...we haven't had a good president in my 59 years of life...God gives us what we deserve and from some of the comments I'm seeing in support of Orange Man...we'll get 4 more of him. Left-Right, conservative-liberal...open your eyes and you'll see there's no difference. How many of you were sympathetic to Kavanaugh and wanted him approved because of Roe v Wade? Guess what? He's Pro-Choice and that was for all to see before he made it on the court. But too many people get their daily dose from hannity, et al and that's their gospel. 
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: R & R for Trump
    « Reply #24 on: January 10, 2020, 01:53:03 PM »
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    • Oh, also, what does R + R have to do with this?
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    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: R & R for Trump
    « Reply #25 on: January 10, 2020, 09:28:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: ByzCat3000 on January 10, 2020, 01:53:03 PM
    Oh, also, what does R + R have to do with this?
    Good question and great previous post!  I used R & R in the OP simply to show that we (at least I do, anyways) recognize the Orange Man as our president, but resist his errors.  I certainly don't give him a free pass to be the reigning policeman of the world, much less numero uno proxy man for Israel to rain death and destruction in sovereign countries which are no real threat to the U.S.  For me the greatest day, the greatest hour of Trump's presidency was his inaugural speech.  After that.... :facepalm:
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