Quote from: MarkM 2024-11-09, 11:36:33 AM
Your schismatic opinion that JD Vance is supposedly not a Catholic is duly noted. Recall it is schismatic to (1) refuse to be subject to the Pope, and (2) refuse to be in communion with other members of the Church subject to the Pope. That is the classical Thomistic definition of schism, so take care not to fall into a real schism. To accuse other Catholics who hold to no heresy of not being Catholics is schismatic. I don't think James David Vance is perfect. But he is a pro life conservative Catholic. He even recently said Pope Francis decision to try and limit the TLM felt wrong.
Mark, your persistent attempt to conflate the post-Vatican II “Conciliar Church” with the Catholic Church of all time is misleading and rooted in the Hegelian dialectic—a tactic Archbishop Lefebvre consistently warned against. The Conciliar Church, with its embrace of Modernism and ecuмenism, is not a continuation of the traditional Catholic Faith but rather a deviation from it, fundamentally transforming doctrine, liturgy, and sacraments in ways incompatible with the Faith handed down through the ages.
Archbishop Lefebvre unequivocally identified the post-Vatican II Church as a “Conciliar Church,” a term he did not use lightly. As he stated, “We have never wished to belong to this system which calls itself the Conciliar Church and defines itself with the Novus Ordo Missae, an ecuмenism which leads to indifferentism and the laicization of all society” (Open Letter to Cardinal Gantin, 1988). This Conciliar Church, he argued, is not merely an evolution of Catholic practice but an entity that directly opposes the Faith, rejecting the doctrinal and liturgical foundations of the Catholic Church.
Bastard Rites and Sacraments: Lefebvre was clear about the validity concerns surrounding the new rites introduced after Vatican II. In his 1976 sermon in Lille, he stated, “The rite of Mass is a bastard rite, the sacraments are bastard sacraments—we no longer know if they are sacraments which give grace or which do not give grace.” He recognized that, given the changes in form, matter, and intent within these new rites, faithful Catholics could no longer be certain of their efficacy in conferring grace. This is not merely a preference for the “traditional Latin Mass” but an essential defense of the true Sacrifice of the Mass and the assurance of grace through valid sacraments.
The Conciliar Church’s “Ecuмenical” and Modernist Foundations: Archbishop Lefebvre identified Vatican II as the root of the modernist infiltration into the Church, aligning its practices with Protestantism and diminishing Catholic teachings on sin, grace, and the unique nature of the priesthood. He warned, “The new Code of Canon Law…is dangerous for it goes much further than the Council itself” (Letter to Friends and Benefactors, 1983). By embracing principles like religious liberty, ecuмenism, and collegiality, the Conciliar Church has paved the way for sacramental and doctrinal ambiguity that directly contradicts the teachings of the Church Fathers and prior popes.
Hegelian Dialectic and the Danger to Faithful Catholics: By engaging in a Hegelian dialectic, you, Mark, are attempting to synthesize truth and error, presenting the Conciliar Church’s actions as compatible with Tradition when they fundamentally undermine it. Archbishop Lefebvre saw through this tactic: “Truth and error are not on the same footing. That would be putting God and the Devil on the same footing, for the Devil is the father of lies, the father of error” (Sermon at Lille, France, 1976). The traditional Catholic Faith does not “synthesize” with modernist heresy. Instead, it must stand in clear opposition to it, as the Church has done throughout history.
5. Rejecting False Unity with the Conciliar Church: Finally, Archbishop Lefebvre emphasized that genuine unity cannot exist between the traditional Church and the Conciliar Church. In his Spiritual Journey, he declared, “It is, therefore, a strict duty for every priest wanting to remain Catholic to separate himself from this Conciliar Church for as long as it does not rediscover the tradition of the Church and of the Catholic Faith.” The faithful have a duty to reject any reconciliation with a system that Archbishop Lefebvre described as “virtually excommunicated because it is a Modernist Church.”
Mark, I am closely watching your posts and can see through your attempts to introduce error into the minds of Catholics seeking the truth. Archbishop Lefebvre’s words make it clear: Catholics have a duty to resist this conciliar agenda uncompromisingly.
To remain faithful, we cannot accept the poisoned offerings of the Conciliar Church, which Archbishop Lefebvre repeatedly warned would lead souls away from the truth and into the hands of those who have betrayed the Faith.
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