Author Topic: Obama may have shaky relations with Vatican  (Read 1897 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Obama may have shaky relations with Vatican
« on: November 06, 2008, 11:53:31 AM »
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  • http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSTRE4A476Z20081105?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=10112

    "VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Two months ago, a Vatican official branded the U.S. Democrats the "party of death" because of its pro-choice stand on abortion. His words failed to sway millions of Catholics who cast their vote for Barack Obama.

    Now, the Vatican will have to deal with the first pro-choice U.S. administration since that of former President Bill Clinton, with which it had very scratchy relations.

    "Most Catholics ignored the bishops who told them not to vote for a pro-choice candidate," Rev. Tom Reese, senior fellow at Georgetown University's Woodstock Theological Center, wrote in the Washington Post's 'On Faith' blog.

    Hours after the ɛƖɛctıon of Obama, who has long been a member of a black Christian church, the Vatican said it was hoping God would "enlighten him and help him in his great responsibility."

    "It (the pope's message to Obama) asks for God's blessings on the American people so that together with all people of good will a world of peace and justice can be built," Vatican chief spokesman Rev. Federico Lombardi said.

    In September, Archbishop Raymond Burke, a senior American in the Vatican, said the party risked "transforming itself definitively into a party of death" because of its policies on bioethical questions and abortion.

    Several U.S. bishops also made ɛƖɛctıon appeals linked to bioethics and abortion but they fell on many deaf ears.

    "The laity repudiated Archbishop Burke's description of the Democratic Party as the party of death," Reese said.

    MOST CATHOLICS VOTED FOR OBAMA

    Nearly 25 percent of U.S. adults -- about 30 million -- are Catholic and, according to exit polls cited on the non-denominational Beliefnet website, some 54 percent of them voted for Obama as opposed to 46 percent for McCain.

    Observers say the economy became the key issue for many Catholic Americans, which, along with issues such as the Iraq War and health care, eclipsed abortion.

    Groups such as Catholic Democrats supported Obama, arguing his party supported social programs such as an increase in the minimum wage that empowered women to choose to have children.

    That argument seems to have helped win over some Catholic voters, as did the presence on the ticket of Joseph Biden, a man with working-class roots who will become the United States' first Catholic vice president.

    Biden, who attends Mass on Sunday, once memorably commented: "the next Republican who tells me I'm not religious, I'm going to shove my rosary down their throat."

    In the ɛƖɛctıon Catholics, showed they are not single-issue voters. But abortion can come back to haunt relations between the Vatican and the United States under an Obama administration.

    This would be a return to the tense relations during the Clinton years of 1993-2001, when the two sides often clashed openly and harshly over abortion and population control.

    One indication of trouble with the Vatican would be if Obama signs into law the Freedom of Choice Act, seen overriding local abortion restrictions -- such as parental notification and waiting periods -- which many Catholics want kept in place."
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    Offline Matthew

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    Obama may have shaky relations with Vatican
    « Reply #1 on: November 06, 2008, 11:55:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: ChantCd

    Biden, who attends Mass on Sunday, once memorably commented: "the next Republican who tells me I'm not religious, I'm going to shove my rosary down their throat."


    Sounds a bit proud and harsh --

    Maybe he needs to PRAY that Rosary more often, especially the third Sorrowful Mystery -- the crowning with thorns.

    And maybe the second Joyful Mystery -- where St. John the Baptist leapt in the womb of his mother at the approach of God in Our Lady's womb.

    According to the Democratic platform, they were both "fetuses" eligible for abortion.

    Seriously, I don't think Biden is praying the Rosary, and if he is, he's not getting any fruit from it. He's still living in mortal sin, as evidenced by his stance on abortion.

    If a Catholic can't vote for Obama without mortal sin, what about the man who runs WITH him as his running-mate, and campaigns for him?
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    Offline The Cub

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    Obama may have shaky relations with Vatican
    « Reply #2 on: November 06, 2008, 12:40:37 PM »
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  • .
    Expect "Change" to be forthcoming from the Vatican.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Obama may have shaky relations with Vatican
    « Reply #3 on: November 06, 2008, 12:58:09 PM »
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  • I read this quote from Joe Biden on the Catholics Against Biden blog.

    Quote from: Biden

    I think [abortion is] going to be an issue for everybody. Anyone who's a Catholic, a practicing Catholic, this is a dilemma for. There's an expression in law school: hard cases make bad law. These are just very, very, very difficult moral, social and societal choices.

    And for me, I am prepared as a senator to say that the framework of Roe v. Wade based upon this imperfect trimester notion captures the gravity of how you should approach this most serious of decisions relating to life and death. First trimester, the state should stay out of it completely because it's a matter of faith, basically, there. Second trimester, there are competing interests, but they're both legitimate to look at. Third trimester, there's an overwhelming burden to say, there isn't a good reason to abort unless it relates to the mother's health. I'm as comfortable as I can be on a really difficult moral dilemma.

    To sum it up, as a Catholic, I'm a John XXIII guy, I'm not a Pope John Paul guy.


    Does anyone here know if he's referring to something specific in that last comment? Or, is it just a general statement in that he thinks JPII was more conservative than John XXIII?
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline antyshemanic

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    Obama may have shaky relations with Vatican
    « Reply #4 on: November 06, 2008, 01:23:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici

    Does anyone here know if he's referring to something specific in that last comment? Or, is it just a general statement in that he thinks JPII was more conservative than John XXIII?


    The 'something specific' to me...may be referring to 'partial birth abortion'  the sentence "Third trimester, there's an overwhelming burden to say, there isn't a good reason to abort unless it relates to the mother's health."


    Offline MaterDominici

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    Obama may have shaky relations with Vatican
    « Reply #5 on: November 06, 2008, 01:26:15 PM »
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  • Why does he think he's a John XXIII guy?
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline trent13

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    Obama may have shaky relations with Vatican
    « Reply #6 on: November 06, 2008, 02:15:07 PM »
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  • Quote
    Biden, who attends Mass on Sunday, once memorably commented: "the next Republican who tells me I'm not religious, I'm going to shove my rosary down their throat."


    Oh well, see, jeez - a rosary!  I had no idea just having a rosary made such a huge difference with regards to how religious a person is!  He must be a living saint.  I am definitely voting for him now.


     

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