Author Topic: Libertarianism (Read 1421 times)

Renzo · « **on:** March 28, 2013, 01:05:21 PM »

The Cato Institute is a famous and influential libertarian "think tank."

"The Institute is named after Cato's Letters, a series of British essays penned in the early 18th century by John Trenchard and Thomas Gordon expounding the political views of philosopher John Locke, that had a strong influence on the American Revolution's intellectual environment."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute

John Locke's views seem to me to be revolutionary (that is to say, they seem to be at their core, anti-catholic).

"John Locke (1632 – 1704), widely known as the Father of Classical Liberalism, was an English philosopher and physician regarded as one of the most influential of Enlightenment thinkers. Considered one of the first of the British empiricists, following the tradition of Francis Bacon, he is equally important to social contract theory. His work had a great impact upon the development of epistemology and political philosophy. His writings influenced Voltaire and Rousseau, many Scottish Enlightenment thinkers, as well as the American revolutionaries. His contributions to classical republicanism and liberal theory are reflected in the United States Declaration of Independence.

Locke's theory of mind is often cited as the origin of modern conceptions of identity and the self, figuring prominently in the work of later philosophers such as Hume, Rousseau and Kant. Locke was the first to define the self through a continuity of consciousness. He postulated that the mind was a blank slate or tabula rasa. Contrary to pre-existing Cartesian philosophy, he maintained that we are born without innate ideas, and that knowledge is instead determined only by experience derived from sense perception."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke

Renzo · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2013, 01:12:41 PM »

It is my understanding, that people are born with a conscience, because God literally wrote his law on their hearts. John Locke would appear to disagree. I don't see how it would be possible to conclude anything other than "might makes right, from his outlook.

Hatchc · « **Reply #2 on:** March 28, 2013, 03:52:32 PM »

There was an interesting thread on FE recently about Libertarianism and satanism.

I know little about libertarianism but I notice that it attracts people of very low caliber. Lots of libertarians on FE.

Traditional Guy 20 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 29, 2013, 01:47:36 PM »

Libertarianism is yet again another political ideology that despises any common sense in the real world and loves ideology and fantasies.

Renzo · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2013, 10:31:32 AM »

It must be rooted in the "liberation" from throne and altar, which i think was supposed to break down the hierarchy between men, thus leading to their "equality" and the kind of "brotherhood" you see among peer groups. America's revolution seems to have been grounded in these ideas. I wonder if you can draw a straight line from this to the american cινιℓ ωαr, ww1, the sixties cultural revolution, abortion, the death of the west and the coming global population bust.

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2013, 11:06:55 AM »

Quote from: Renzo

-snip-

John Locke's views seem to me to be revolutionary (that is to say, they seem to be at their core, anti-catholic).

-snip-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke

You are right. Empiricism and Humean philosophy is completely at odds with Catholicism for a lot of reasons. The 'impact' it has on epistemology isn't an impact at all, but a destruction of, and the 'blank slate' theory is atheistic.

It certainly is/was revolutionary because the only way that this philosophy works is if you take the prior 2000 years of philosophy and chuck it in the trashcan. Up until then most philosophers worked with accepted axioms (law of non-contradiction, the forms, causality, substance) because these principles, even if not believed explicitly by all thinkers, lent themselves towards a belief in objective reality (from nature to supernature)...

Parenthetical digression: Philosophy itself is the study of that reality. What we know as theology today is lamentably divorced from philosophy, but this isn't really the case and it wasn't the case for a very long time because it was understood by most (all?) pre-enlightment philosophers that philosophy (philosohpia: love of wisdom) necessarily included the study of God and His laws.

...Empiricism (which proceeds from liberalism) rejects objective reality in toto because it adopts this idea of man as a blank slate and his epistemological journey as one merely of chaotic perceptions, which he organizes and arranges into his own reality of impressions and ideas. In +W's Post Falls conference he talks about how liberalism allows you to look at a curtain and claim it to be a tortoise. This is what we're dealing with here.

And obviously, by rejecting objective reality one naturally is rejecting God (Who is objective reality Himself), creation, original sin, and everything else that flows from it. In fact, you can't be a liberal and not reject God, since the entire thought process of liberalism relies on the rejection of this truth. It's only by this rejection of God can you continue to reject all else which is real.

Renzo · « **Reply #6 on:** April 01, 2013, 12:02:26 PM »

Brian Patrick Mitchell, in his book, "eight ways to run the country" describes libertarianism as the rejection of "kratos" or the state. Of course, it's a matter of degrees, but that is the general idea. On the other extreme he places "communitarianism," with a mega-state. I think traditional catholic views on the role of the state are sort of in between these two extremes. I think the state usurped traditional church roles in the west and in that sense became "overgrown." Things like medicare/national health care, educating the general public, regulating what is taught in universities, providing housing and the basic necessities for the poor seem to me to all be roles that the catholic church traditionally held in the west, but that the state took over. I think the catholic church used to use those kind of things to control the culture, but lost control of the culture, when it lost control of those kind of things.

On the other hand, there seems to be this desire by some to eliminate the state's role in doing these things, but prevent the catholic church from being empowered to do them as well. Thus, leaving a void which would inevitably be filled by something, if for no other reason, than the power it gives those who fill it. I suppose one could call this "secular libertarianism." I reckon the solution they are proposing is privatization of those roles, which is to say, handing that power over to the business community.

Renzo · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2013, 04:43:24 PM »

give me libbery or give me weff! :light-saber:

Croix de Fer · « **Reply #8 on:** April 03, 2013, 06:56:14 PM »

Nationalist Libertarian is the only way to go, babe.

Napoli · « **Reply #9 on:** April 04, 2013, 06:56:13 PM »

I abstain from voting here in Canada. My conscience won't let me pick any of the three satanic choices we have.

JohnGrey · « **Reply #10 on:** April 07, 2013, 07:40:50 PM »

Libertarianism is merely the most extreme expression of the pernicious notion enshrined in the Constitution of the United States: the separation of Church and State. All it does is abandon the fallacy that pure humanism and naturalism is capable of rendering just law and government, instead denying that either or necessary save for the protection of total, amoral liberty on the part of the citizen.