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Author Topic: Just ignore Trump's words  (Read 10747 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: Just ignore Trump's words
« Reply #75 on: October 17, 2024, 01:21:17 PM »
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  • While I chose to overlook your initial post, I will address your current inquiry regarding Fr. Hewko's assertion.

    I provided videos where Fr. Hewko discusses his stance on voting, including his condemnation of both hαɾɾιs and Trump. If you have not yet taken the time to watch them, I encourage you to do so to fully understand his position. The sources and reasoning are there, and it's crucial to approach this matter with diligence.
    But I'm asking for the sources and support for his assertion that "numerous other bishops and clerics" agree with him.  I'm not asking to hear what he states in a sermon or anything else.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #76 on: October 17, 2024, 03:05:41 PM »
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    :facepalm: title=facepalm ... Trump won in 2016 becaue he was supposed to win and they wanted him to win.

    Ok, so if one's vote doesn't matter, then there's no situation where voting can be a 'mortal sin'.

    You can't have it both ways.  You can't argue a) "Oh, I'm not going to vote because it's all controlled".  and also b) "If you vote for X, then it's a mortal sin."


    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #77 on: October 17, 2024, 04:10:08 PM »
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  • Ok, so if one's vote doesn't matter, then there's no situation where voting can be a 'mortal sin'.

    You can't have it both ways.  You can't argue a) "Oh, I'm not going to vote because it's all controlled".  and also b) "If you vote for X, then it's a mortal sin."
    Intent matters, if you pull the trigger of an empty gun you still committed mortal sin.

    So sad how confident some are in their ignorance.

    Incredible how one can be well-read and still clueless about the basics.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #78 on: October 17, 2024, 04:16:17 PM »
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  • Ok, so if one's vote doesn't matter, then there's no situation where voting can be a 'mortal sin'.

    You can't have it both ways.  You can't argue a) "Oh, I'm not going to vote because it's all controlled".  and also b) "If you vote for X, then it's a mortal sin."

    As Marulus points out, that makes no sense.  If you THINK that the election isn't rigged and that your vote counts, you're guilty of it even if you're wrong.  If I see a $100 bill on the table and take it, thinking it belongs to someone else, but it's actually really mine, even though you don't objectively commit theft, you're still guilty of it.

    Yes, the elections are 100% controlled ... and that's precisely why I don't understand why so many are compromising Catholic principles for nothing.  Of course, even though they're rigged, I wouldn't go vote for either candidate since it would bother me even to go through the motion.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #79 on: October 17, 2024, 04:22:15 PM »
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    Intent matters, if you pull the trigger of an empty gun you still committed mortal sin.
    Not if you know the gun is empty.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #80 on: October 17, 2024, 04:35:17 PM »
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    If you THINK that the election isn't rigged and that your vote counts, you're guilty of (voting) even if you're wrong.
    Of course.  But all this presumes that voting for Trump is wrong to begin with...which has not been proven.  I contend that voting for him (whether the election is rigged or not) is not a mortal sin.  There's plenty of "goods" that can happen due to his presidency.

    Offline alaric

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #81 on: October 17, 2024, 04:54:49 PM »
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  • What if Trump is just practicing "the ends justify the means" and saying what he THINKS he needs to say, to get enough votes so he can get into office?
    His softening on Abortion, support for LGBT, even his support for Israel, etc.?

    Here is my interesting theory -- feel free to discuss.

    We should judge (and vote for) Trump as a KNOWN QUANTITY looking mostly at WHAT HE HAS DONE -- given that he was, in fact, president for 4 years.
    Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words. Could a Catholic vote for Trump based on his actions?

    Imagine if someone said, "We can't vote for Trump. We can't let that man have the nuclear codes." I'd be like, "Um....how do I say this...he was president for 4 years already." The same for any other extreme fear porn his enemies might throw out there. Trump WAS president already for a whole term. Trump is not a scary unknown quantity. Not after his first term was served, that is.

    AT THE VERY LEAST, Trump personally having the morality "The ends justify the means", while it's not morally valid, it's certainly not bad enough to forbid Catholics from voting for him under pain of mortal sin. Know what I mean?

    To play devil's advocate here, let's see if voting for Trump could be justified by a good Catholic...

    What a good Catholic would be VOTING FOR by pulling the lever for Trump is another 4 years of Trump as we actually experienced 2016-2020. You know, great economy, more respect on the world stage, tightening of abortion restrictions, reining in of unrestricted illegal immigration (from all countries) over the mexican border, fighting cнιℓd тrαffιcking, appointing of countless conservative (rather than highly liberal) judges, reversing of any/all communist "Green" climate change agendas, opening up of oil drilling, etc., and no new wars/police actions/military operations.

    Yes, Trump didn't get to finish. Remember he was persecuted for many of those 4 years, which kind of throws a monkey wrench in the works, no matter how good you are. Also, he only had 4 years to undo decades of problems. It takes time to "build the wall". Trump most certainly kept his promise. But he only had so much support, and a few short years.

    I think it would be justified for a Catholic to make an argument along these lines.
    Also to add, he was never in politics before, especially POTUS, he took some really bad advice and kept some bad characters in play which came back to haunt him,which he admits will not happen again, he will clean house this time. 

    And although he didn't completely fulfill policies which mirr Catholic doctrine , we were definitely SAFER under Trump and don't forget the man IS NOT CATHOLIC. 

    Look at the complete roll call of "catholic" politicians who completely screwed us for years now, biden,  Peℓσѕι, cuomo, etc. They're pathetic.  Trump has a better track record than the damn "pope " for crying out loud.

    This election is a no brainer for anyone with with the least ability for critical thought. If you stay out, it's a vote for the damn vampires who will suck us dry.

    Just give us a break with this nonvoting sh*t, whether you like it or not YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE! Choose to get rid of the COMMIES! Snap out of it!

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #82 on: October 17, 2024, 08:38:39 PM »
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    Look at the complete roll call of "catholic" politicians who completely screwed us for years now, biden,  Peℓσѕι, cuomo, etc. They're pathetic.  Trump has a better track record than the damn "pope " for crying out loud.

    This election is a no brainer for anyone with with the least ability for critical thought. If you stay out, it's a vote for the damn vampires who will suck us dry.

    Just give us a break with this nonvoting sh*t, whether you like it or not YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE! Choose to get rid of the COMMIES! Snap out of it!
    Yes, yes and yes.

    We're at war, people.  It's a silent war at the moment.  If the crazed libs get in, then hold on for WW3, famines, grid lockdowns, power outages on a nationwide scale, etc.  The libs/China want to reduce the US to a third-world country.  Trump wants to keep the US as a 1st world nation, on part with China. 

    This is ultimately a battle between 2 global views - the Liberals want China to be the world's new superpower...after they start WW3 and get the US and Russia to annihilate one another (as foretold by freemason Albert Pike).  If the Libs win, expect drastic changes in our economy, and fast.  And not for the good.  And also war and more viruses.

    Trump's side of globalism will keep the US as a superpower, with an even playing field between China, Russia, Europe, America.  A multi-polar world.

    Both sides lead to the NWO but Trump's version takes longer (and gives us more time to pray).  It's a no-brainer.


    Offline jersey60

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #83 on: October 17, 2024, 08:54:20 PM »
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  • Of course.  But all this presumes that voting for Trump is wrong to begin with...which has not been proven.  I contend that voting for him (whether the election is rigged or not) is not a mortal sin.  There's plenty of "goods" that can happen due to his presidency.
    One of those goods that can happen with Trump is what? We know one of the goods is not early term abortion, so with that one fact in mind…tell me again what good he can do that will outweigh that one YUGE bad? Abortion will continue but “did you see the stock market today? So glad Trump won!”

    Offline Valentine

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #84 on: October 17, 2024, 09:06:22 PM »
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  • Yes, yes and yes.

    We're at war, people.  It's a silent war at the moment.  If the crazed libs get in, then hold on for WW3, famines, grid lockdowns, power outages on a nationwide scale, etc.  The libs/China want to reduce the US to a third-world country.  Trump wants to keep the US as a 1st world nation, on part with China. 

    This is ultimately a battle between 2 global views - the Liberals want China to be the world's new superpower...after they start WW3 and get the US and Russia to annihilate one another (as foretold by freemason Albert Pike).  If the Libs win, expect drastic changes in our economy, and fast.  And not for the good.  And also war and more viruses.

    Trump's side of globalism will keep the US as a superpower, with an even playing field between China, Russia, Europe, America.  A multi-polar world.

    Both sides lead to the NWO but Trump's version takes longer (and gives us more time to pray).  It's a no-brainer.
    Pike specifically foretold that the antichrist will come from the right, as a reaction to the extreme nihilism, degeneracy, atheism and chaos wrought by the left. 
    Regardless of whatever techno utopia the elites desire, who are themselves tricked by the father of lies, the devil has but one agenda, to harvest as many souls as possible for his infernal kingdom. 
    Those on the left already belong to his kingdom. It's those who still identify as Christian, hold to traditional concepts of Christian morality, that he most desires. And for this reason I think Trump serves as an archetype of sorts for the 
    antichrist about to come. He will promise peace and prosperity right at the moment when the world is most lost and confused. 
    Satan achieves a foothold in our lives by one small compromise after another. Most Catholics/Christians I know took the jab, multiple jabs, due to Trump. No way they would have takin it if Hillary had been president. 
    Likewise these very same people will blindly follow Trump when he attacks Iran. 

    Offline Michelle

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #85 on: October 17, 2024, 10:11:28 PM »
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  • Pike specifically foretold that the antichrist will come from the right, as a reaction to the extreme nihilism, degeneracy, atheism and chaos wrought by the left.
    Regardless of whatever techno utopia the elites desire, who are themselves tricked by the father of lies, the devil has but one agenda, to harvest as many souls as possible for his infernal kingdom.
    Those on the left already belong to his kingdom. It's those who still identify as Christian, hold to traditional concepts of Christian morality, that he most desires. And for this reason I think Trump serves as an archetype of sorts for the
    antichrist about to come. He will promise peace and prosperity right at the moment when the world is most lost and confused.
    Satan achieves a foothold in our lives by one small compromise after another. Most Catholics/Christians I know took the jab, multiple jabs, due to Trump. No way they would have takin it if Hillary had been president.
    Likewise these very same people will blindly follow Trump when he attacks Iran.
    You are spot on.  I was reading a quote today by St. John of the Cross.  He said Satan cannot deceive a good soul with evil because that soul will outright reject obvious evil.  So Satan uses what seems to be good to deceive him.  
    We know from the vision of Pope Leo Xlll that Our Lord gave Satan 100 years to try and destroy the Church.   I think it's good to remember that the Church is not just a hierarchical structure with buildings but the Church is also each and every soul.  The devil is trying to wipe out the faith in each soul.  Our Lord said "think thou when the Son of Man returns, He will find FAITH on the earth?"  He may find latin Mass attendees and conservative pro lifers but the dogma of faith will sparsely be preserved.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #86 on: October 17, 2024, 11:54:22 PM »
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    Satan achieves a foothold in our lives by one small compromise after another. Most Catholics/Christians I know took the jab, multiple jabs, due to Trump. No way they would have takin it if Hillary had been president. 

    Likewise these very same people will blindly follow Trump when he attacks Iran. 
    Ok but I don’t think it’s a damnable sin to have taken the jab.  So where did satans foothold happen here?  Those who got the jab are definitely stupid but if they didn’t jeopardize salvation, then satan didn’t gain anything.  


    Supporting any war nowadays depends on which propaganda you listen to/believe.  Hard to say what true or false.  God isn’t going to damn anyone for being duped by next-level/intelligence experts who spew lies for a living.  Again, Satan wins nothing from this. 

    Your comments about the antichrist are valid.  But your connection with him and these 2 political examples fails.  

    Offline Valentine

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #87 on: October 18, 2024, 04:31:30 AM »
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  • Ok but I don’t think it’s a damnable sin to have taken the jab.  So where did satans foothold happen here?  Those who got the jab are definitely stupid but if they didn’t jeopardize salvation, then satan didn’t gain anything. 


    Supporting any war nowadays depends on which propaganda you listen to/believe.  Hard to say what true or false.  God isn’t going to damn anyone for being duped by next-level/intelligence experts who spew lies for a living.  Again, Satan wins nothing from this.

    Your comments about the antichrist are valid.  But your connection with him and these 2 political examples fails. 
    The jab was made with aborted fetal tissue and wasn't even a traditional vaccine but an MRNA "gene therapy" This information was easily obtainable if people spent 10 minutes online doing some research but they chose instead to watch silly tik tok videos, porn, games, listen to liars like Fauci, Trump, Brix, Gates, etc. The bottom line is that these same Christians/Catholics didn't want their lives of travel and self indulgence perturbed so they submitted, just as they will when the mark of the beast comes....because it's convenient! 
    Even very intelligent men like Bishop Sanborn failed in guiding his flock. 
    About the only Trad priests who spoke out against it were Williamson, Hewko and Reylea. It's kind of a shame that even some evangelicals, with their garbage doctrine, saw through the scandemic but Trad Catholics were taken in by it

    Offline cranefritter

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #88 on: October 18, 2024, 07:35:11 AM »
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  • As Marulus points out, that makes no sense.  If you THINK that the election isn't rigged and that your vote counts, you're guilty of it even if you're wrong.  If I see a $100 bill on the table and take it, thinking it belongs to someone else, but it's actually really mine, even though you don't objectively commit theft, you're still guilty of it.

    Yes, the elections are 100% controlled ... and that's precisely why I don't understand why so many are compromising Catholic principles for nothing.  Of course, even though they're rigged, I wouldn't go vote for either candidate since it would bother me even to go through the motion.
    I have a clarifying question for you. My understanding of your position is that the only correct and moral action here is to not vote at this time.

    If there was a small pro-Catholic, anti-abortion, anti-birth control, anti-sodomy, anti-divorce party, would you then vote for it since it would be promoting positively, good? Or is the rigging of the election enough to keep you from voting in that case as well?

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: Just ignore Trump's words
    « Reply #89 on: October 18, 2024, 07:41:08 AM »
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  • "My people die for lack of knowledge"-

    All Catholics needed to know about the shot was that it involved fetal tissue for R and D and in it's components.

    If they didn't know that, well that's not on them, but if they did it is a grave sin, even if "Francis" gave the ok. 
    In fact, Francis giving the OK should have been a sign that something was seriously off.