P.P.S.  Yeah, I know George Washington is said to have converted on his deathbed.  But this can be a trick.  There have been Masons who "converted" to Catholicism without renouncing Masonry ( as far as I know ) in modern times, and who were buried by the "Church."  For instance, Michel Baroin in France, who was the head of the Grand Orient!  He was buried by the Jєωιѕн Cardinal Lustiger, Archbishop of Paris... Masons claim to believe in "God" and some of them will say they are Catholic, as if it's just one good religion among others.

What was in Washington's heart if he converted is very much unknown, considering the treachery of Masons and that they often infiltrate the Church and pretend to be Catholic.  If he really did convert, more power to him.  But that still leaves the rest of the Founding Fathers who didn't.

Trinity said:

It is Myrna and those few like her who keep alive the hope in America. Without them we would have nothing but cynicism, because in these others there can be no other view.

I see you as both having it right, but I think Belloc has not seen what us old people have so cannot envision what we do.

I am 33, in case you're saying I'm one of the old people.  Although I feel old.  

I don't think it's cynicism to tell the truth. Were the Jews in exile in Babylon being cynical when they cried and dreamed of escape?  They didn't even want to sing psalms until they had their own homeland back, yet American Catholics will sing Freemasonic patriotic hymns and barbecue and watch sports, as happy as pigs in mud...  

Am I cynical by dreaming of Catholic Europe and making no compromise with revolutionary America?  Am I cynical by calling out Mystery Babylon for what it is?  Somehow, I don't think so.  If anything, the future belongs to those who think like me, while those who continue to compromise their faith and to settle for half-truths belong to the past.  That has nothing to do with young vs. old, by the way -- it's a matter of mentality, of where you live in your head, of how you see the world.  You can be 90 years old and be of the future, just by praying for Catholic restoration, and by refusing to celebrate the Republics.

I see myself as an exile here, like the Jews in Babylon, and I think all Catholics should see themselves that way.  I don't think they should celebrate living in an anti-Catholic ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic country with tickertape and confetti.  That is not cynicism, and I am not depressed by my situation.  

I have hope that God will work a miracle and things will change; or if not, that this is the end and I am miraculously of the elect.  Either way, I have hope, and not of the Obama variety. :wave:

what does America stand for???

you were those things? what, Wilsonian democracy? forcing our will around the globe? fulfilling the Puritan millenium seeking? what exactly? this be happy, everything is fine is why the Church in the USA never really grew and more importantly, we did not push for a Catholic America and a Catholic state...

so America was great, founded be Deists, Freemasons,Prots?

and you dare attack or criticize B16, what hypocrisy he gets no wiggle room, but your nation worship gets wide berth?

please, lets end this thread and the Beck one, hypocrisy's stench is too much.....it is clear you have absolutely no knoweldge of history-real histroy, not the drivel shoveled at us in public schools and even, Catholic ones.

Belloc, you're being an imbecile.  We, the people, have had no say for a long, long time.  We've been used all along, but that made us no less who we are.  Where the heck do you get your outrage from if not from good people who taught it to you?  You stand for America, too, or you would be in front of the tube right now instead of being upset about all this unAmerican behavior.  You were given an American standard and then shown the unAmerican flow of things.

and you are an cultic heretic, go then and worship your freemaosnic state!

unlike some here that apparnetly are retired, I have wasted far to much time to type anymore.

imbecile? promoting the CSO over teh freemasonic USA one?? you, that is really bad thing htne, aint it Trinity!! wanting Blessed karl over Woodrow Wilson, for shame.

enjoy our party with Bishop Mark, maybe some seig heiling the USA flag while you are at it.....but lets stomp on B16 picture, liek the Skull and Bones used to do.....no leeway for him, oh no!! but pLenty of leeway for this freemaonic republic founded by Prots, occultists,etc..

AND YOU DDI NOT EVEN ANSWER ME, WHAT THE HELL IS THE AMERICA=HARD WORKIGN PEOPLE?? DID NOT CATHOLIC WORK HARD IN EUROPE? ASIA?

who is the real ass then, Trinity!!!! me who promotes the CSO? guess to you it is! Try to maybe read something before spouting off. It appears from your naive statements you have not (America is hard working people that give you shirts-how naive).


by the way silly sede, I detest and hate state worhsip, so your stench is appalling to me-have you on hide, embicile!!!!!!!!!!

then were is this mystical Spirit of AMerica, my friend? hmmm??

America was nto founded a sa Christian nation-again, read why the Pilgrims really came here....read a bit more about the revolution and the players and motives behind it

you have gone way beyond the "lets be good citizens and have a certain loyalty" to the nation of our birth...

you have given me nothing concrete, just some vague ideal and prattle about people working hard, giving off shirts, etc...

like listening to teh same crap from my dad and others-and no, no daddy issues,etc-but when he gets on America, his eyes light up and we hear how we are the greatest nation that ever was, tha hte Church shuold support anything the USA does, how those that speak out against it in the Church should shut up. America is always great, always right and the Founders were heroes next to gods.

meanwhile, Europse weas bad and I never,ever heard about the CSO, nor anything...early on at FE, I was pableming that tripe, but many corrected me-heck, I even told people liek vald to Love it or leave it-the same narrow minded tripe we got out of the WWII genereatio and  baby boomers inteh 60's.

If you support Americ's foundations you in essense do support Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ.....or do by that the Founders were just a bunch of frredom loving deveout Christians?

BTW, note my early post about having you on hide and not having the time to argue-wait until I retire, then like you and Myran, I can live here at CI too and type all day, immediatly responding to all posts......

not assuming at all, your posts are clear...calling me a name is not easiest way to reason with me......as you note, I tend to take it a bit personal, then again, did not call you really what I wanted to after reading that.....

did not read response, but will pray to your Spirit of AMerica for guidance....he will grant requests, despite his not having been Catholic in origin..

I see myself as an exile here, like the Jews in Babylon, and I think all Catholics should see themselves that way.  

well put, we are journeyman on a journey and exiles here as the prayer states.....