Rationing exists under the current system. Abortion occurs under the current system. Euthanasia occurs under the current system. If you do not understand that, then I don't know what to say.

True, but I belive forced vaccinations may occur due to this bill.  If the gov. grows that can not be good for Catholics.  What is next if the Feds. can tell us what hospital to go to and when to be vaccinated?  Perhaps they willl try to controll education next, force homeschoolers into public schools.  This bill spells disaster.

Quote from: Telesphorus

It is common knowledge that the removal of all sorts of conscience clauses, the subsidy of abortion, the practice of euthanasia are all things heartily supported by liberals in all countries with socialized medicine.

But there is no removal of conscience clause, no subsidy of abortion, and no legalization in the bill for euthanasia... is there ?

The position of the USCCB is as follows

In our Catholic tradition, health care is a basic human right. Access to health care should not depend on where a person works, how much a family earns, or where a person lives. Instead, every person, created in the image and likeness of God, has a right to life and to those things necessary to sustain life, including affordable, quality health care. This teaching is rooted in the biblical call to heal the sick and to serve "the least of these," our concern for human life and dignity, and the principle of the common good. Unfortunately, tens of millions of Americans do not have health insurance. According to the Catholic bishops of the United States, the current health care system is in need of fundamental reform

http://www.usccb.org/healthcare/position.shtml

It really boils down to this... does this bill fund or subsidize abortions.  I don't see that it does, but I'm willing to read how it does.

I'd like to know what the USCCB has done for tradition.  These sort of articles are worthless to me.  Most American Bishops give communion to pro- abort. polititians.

I would have to read more closely, I am not sure if it says anything about vaccinations, but it is possible.

The legislation doesn't bother me. It will insure more americans.

No it won't. It will PROMISE to... but it won't be able to fulfill that promise, because there isn't enough money to keep social security and medicare going, let alone to fund anything even remotely like this. And just where do you suppose the magic money will come from? Oh... that's right... our pockets. Oh, and with so many more people trying to GET health care, with there being still only so many doctors, there will be obscenely-long waiting lists to GET that medical care. Like in every other country that has national health care. And the list goes on. To say nothing of the unconstitutionality of FORCING people to buy health care. Whether they want it or not. Also to say nothing of the doors it opens to the government, who will (everyone thinks) be paying for this, to then regulate every aspect of our lives by law, in order to ensure our "health" even further.

The problems with this thing are a long, long list. The least of them, perhaps, is the obvious idiocy in overlooking that we can neither pay for this, nor can we (given the limited number of doctors, who will be UNDERPAID for their services, driving them into financial crisis) rationally add so many individuals into the mix, when there are already waiting lists for life saving measures like transplants. It's hard enough to get that heart transplant when THIS many people need that heart. When that number doubles or triples or what not, how easy will it be for your loved one to get it THEN? We'll go from SOME people getting the care they need, to everyone getting crappy care, if they can get care before it's too late at ALL.

Look at any country with this kind of thing, and you can see the disaster in action. Which is why, until now, people have been coming to the US for health care. No waiting lists. None of the crap they have to put up with back home. Just go, pay, and get treated wherever and by whomever you want. Not for long, though.

All communistic/socialistic/utopian schemes begin or are founded upon a seemingly well meaning principal. Just like eugenics wanted with all of the good intentions in the world (in their warped heads), to eliminate racial minorities by abortion. The problem is, whatever the rosy intentions, these things do not work, and are not just or right or good.

Stealing is a sin. Justice is every man keeping the fruits of his labors. Communism is stealing or forcing people to part with what is rightfully and justly theirs, in the name of everyone supposedly getting a free lunch. In the end, only the guys at the top get anything like the lunch everyone had in mind, for free, while everyone else gets to eat dirt, even after they are forced to give up everything they have to get it.

There is nothing moral about stealing by force the wealth of the many, to pay for those who unfortunately were not able to afford medical care. This is not charity. This is theft. And people will suffer for it. The idea of "no more poverty" or "no more hunger" or "no more sickness" or the like, are all empty dreams that are not possible under anything but total Catholicism. Welcome to reality. This isn't heaven, this is Earth. Heaven is the next place. Here we suffer, get sick and die. Even good communists who pay all they have for everyone's everything.

Our system has been stealing and redistributing for along time. If this will help those poor people I know get better medical care, then it is fine by be. I am sorry that you may have to suffer inconvenience as a result. We don't live in a Catholic soiety WE LIVE IN A SATANIC one. I am just trying to see as many people helped as possible in an evil system.

The I won't get the best and most costly medical care that I and my family deserve because these other poverty stricken slubs are now getting care is a sick argument for your position.