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Author Topic: George H. Walker Bush RIP  (Read 4639 times)

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Offline Maria Regina

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Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2018, 12:31:33 AM »
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    • I did not watch the funeral as I had other things to do.

    Wasn't this funeral held in the Episcopalian National Cathedral?
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    Offline Motorede

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #46 on: December 06, 2018, 03:55:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: Neil Obstat on December 06, 2018, 12:07:35 AM
    .
    The movable guard rail sure looks like it was designed to be a communion rail to be knelt at.
    .

    .
    See? We still have all the right furniture, now all we need is to restore the Traditional Latin Mass!
    Rather, I see these designed to be used as prie-dieux instead of communion rail because of the slight slope. I've never seen a communion rail with a top like this---but a prie-dieu?--yes. Plus, I doubt that the Episcopalians kneel for their "communion" ceremony. I wonder if they even kneel at all during Cranmer's Ungodly Rite. Same can be said about the Novus Ordo sacrilege--there is no kneeling. 
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #47 on: December 06, 2018, 06:09:14 AM »
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    • Quote from: Motorede on December 06, 2018, 03:55:42 AM
    Rather, I see these designed to be used as prie-dieux instead of communion rail because of the slight slope. I've never seen a communion rail with a top like this---but a prie-dieu?--yes. Plus, I doubt that the Episcopalians kneel for their "communion" ceremony. I wonder if they even kneel at all during Cranmer's Ungodly Rite. Same can be said about the Novus Ordo sacrilege--there is no kneeling.
    The weird arch-conservative Anglicans who are closer to Eternal Rome than Canterbury (and for example, still use the English Missal) kneel, I think. They share the Catholic belief of the Real Presence, but for some reason, won't convert.
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    Offline Motorede

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #48 on: December 06, 2018, 08:01:55 AM »
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    • Quote from: JezusDeKoning on December 06, 2018, 06:09:14 AM
    The weird arch-conservative Anglicans who are closer to Eternal Rome than Canterbury (and for example, still use the English Missal) kneel, I think. They share the Catholic belief of the Real Presence, but for some reason, won't convert.
    Yeah, I've met two of them. They use breviaries with Saint Thomas Aquinas's  feast in them and he predates Anglicanism by close to 500 years. 
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #49 on: December 07, 2018, 07:40:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Maria Regina on December 05, 2018, 03:08:08 PM
    Did the POTUS and FLOTUS participate at all in this ceremony? From several pictures posted online, the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump and his wife, Melania, did not participate at all. In fact, their lips were sealed. Coincidence? Notice that their hands are not holding the funeral booklet and following along as everyone else appears to be doing.

    Indeed, notice that Obama, Michele, Bill Clinton, and HRC are fully participating, reading along in the funeral booklets, moving their lips, and singing.

    Melania is a Roman Catholic, so to participate in this charade at an Episcopalian service would be a lie. She did well.


    Melania is a "Roman Catholic"? Or a Novus Ordo "Catholic"?  Because I don't know any Novus Ordo Catholics who don't attend and participate in non-Catholic services.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #50 on: December 07, 2018, 07:45:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Motorede on December 06, 2018, 08:01:55 AM
    Yeah, I've met two of them. They use breviaries with Saint Thomas Aquinas's  feast in them and he predates Anglicanism by close to 500 years.
    When I researched differences between Episocopalian and Catholic years ago, I learned that the difference regarding communion was that they believe in consubstantiation rather than transubstantiation.  In addition, if I am remembering correctly, the "Real Presence" does not remain.  Therefore, these churches do not have tabernacles.
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    Offline moneil

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #51 on: December 07, 2018, 11:13:46 AM »
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    • I had made this sidebar comment in reply #41 (the reply was about the etiquette of addressing or referring to a former president):


    Quote
    What I found more interesting was that toward the end of the service the Apostles Creed was recited.  The three former presidents and their wives who were sitting together with President and First Lady Trump were visible reciting the creed.  The current President and First Lady’ lips never moved.

    There was this interesting comment in reply #42:


    Quote
    Melania is a Roman Catholic, so to participate in this charade at an Episcopalian service would be a lie. She did well.

    First Lady Melania Trump indeed was baptized (I presume as an infant) in her native Slovenia (then part of Yogoslavia) and does refer to herself as being Roman Catholic.  However, in 2005 she married a twice married and divorced non Catholic man at the Bethesda-by-the-Sea Episcopal Church in Palm Beach, Florida.  I’m thinking she may have bigger issues with her relationship to The Church than Communicatio in Sacris.
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #52 on: December 07, 2018, 02:25:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: moneil on December 07, 2018, 11:13:46 AM
    I had made this sidebar comment in reply #41 (the reply was about the etiquette of addressing or referring to a former president):


    There was this interesting comment in reply #42:


    First Lady Melania Trump indeed was baptized (I presume as an infant) in her native Slovenia (then part of Yogoslavia) and does refer to herself as being Roman Catholic.  However, in 2005 she married a twice married and divorced non Catholic man at the Bethesda-by-the-Sea Episcopal Church in Palm Beach, Florida.  I’m thinking she may have bigger issues with her relationship to The Church than Communicatio in Sacris.
    And being baptized, in today's time, means nothing; tons of Catholics will baptize their children for the sake of getting it done, especially when identifying as "Catholic" in that part of the world is a nationalistic thing, not a religious thing. 
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    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #53 on: December 07, 2018, 04:07:57 PM »
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    • Around the time when Melania met Francis, the First Lady was interviewed and admitted that she had been taking instructions in the faith and was recently received into the Roman Catholic Church. I could not find this interview when I did an Internet search.

    I have met some Catholics who were baptized but who were never confirmed or raised in the faith. They had to take the RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults course before being allowed to receive the sacraments of Confirmation, Confession, and the Holy Eucharist.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #54 on: December 07, 2018, 04:33:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Maria Regina on December 07, 2018, 04:07:57 PM
    Around the time when Melania met Francis, the First Lady was interviewed and admitted that she had been taking instructions in the faith and was recently received into the Roman Catholic Church. I could not find this interview when I did an Internet search.

    I have met some Catholics who were baptized but who were never confirmed or raised in the faith. They had to take the RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults course before being allowed to receive the sacraments of Confirmation, Confession, and the Holy Eucharist.
    So, she received instructions in the Novus Ordo faith, not the Catholic Faith.
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    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #55 on: December 07, 2018, 04:41:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on December 07, 2018, 04:33:27 PM
    So, she received instructions in the Novus Ordo faith, not the Catholic Faith.
    From what I have read, that is correct.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #56 on: December 07, 2018, 11:07:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: JezusDeKoning on December 07, 2018, 02:25:19 PM
    And being baptized, in today's time, means nothing; tons of Catholics will baptize their children for the sake of getting it done, especially when identifying as "Catholic" in that part of the world is a nationalistic thing, not a religious thing.
    Baptism removes the stain of original sin from the soul, and allows the child to go immediately to Heaven, if the child dies before it has a chance to sin.  So Baptism is not nothing.
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #57 on: December 07, 2018, 11:44:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on December 07, 2018, 11:07:13 PM
    Baptism removes the stain of original sin from the soul, and allows the child to go immediately to Heaven, if the child dies before it has a chance to sin.  So Baptism is not nothing.
    That's not my point at all. My point is that many people in Catholic countries have their children baptized simply because it's the thing you do -- not out of religious obligation or removing original sin. 

    I should've worded it differently, and that's a mea culpa on my part, though. If they won't raise the children in the Faith (like my own civilly-married, gone to Mass about 4 times this decade parents), then what is the point?

    The cultural Catholic, considering the abysmal state of global catechesis, probably doesn't even believe in original sin. And please, everyone, let's start a new thread. Let's not derail this any further.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #58 on: December 08, 2018, 02:27:34 AM »
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    • Not to derail, I must say that

    The point is that if it weren't for "my own civilly-married, gone to Mass about 4 times this decade parents)" then you wouldn't have the Grace of Baptism, by which you came to seek a deeper knowledge of the faith, so you should be grateful to them and not despise them.

    God writes straight with crooked lines.

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: George H. Walker Bush RIP
    « Reply #59 on: December 08, 2018, 03:58:48 AM »
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    • .
    Only on CathInfo would a thread about GHWB devolve into a tug-o-war about baptism.    :jumping2:
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