That was an AP article, originally.  Funny how the MSM has forgotten what it knew back then.  :devil2:

No, what is forgotten is the entire context of this article, and the attempts by some to use past mistakes in the media to further their pet causes.

Pet cause?  Obama is a Kenyan, regardless of what this article says.  There is plenty of information to verify that.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php

Why are you defending him?  

Irenaeus,

You posted erroneous information about what the AP allegedly knew while it being false.  I corrected you and by the same token, protected the AP, not Obama.

WND has no information pertaining to Obama being a Kenyan.... If it does, show me the evidence, rather then simply pointing to their index.

The AP article is irrelevant.  Obama is a Kenyan.  There is enough evidence to show that.  Now I'll correct you.

WND has pointed out the very clear fact that Obama has never produced an actual Birth Certificate.  He has only shown a Certificate of Live Birth.  A BC proves one was born in the US, a CoLB does not.

The "certification of live birth" posted online and widely touted as "Obama's birth certificate" does not in any way prove he was born in Hawaii, since the same "short-form" docuмent is easily obtainable for children not born in Hawaii. The true "long-form" birth certificate – which includes information such as the name of the birth hospital and attending physician – is the only docuмent that can prove Obama was born in Hawaii, but to date he has not permitted its release for public or press scrutiny.

Obama has spent $1 million, fighting legal challenges all over this country, to force him to show his BC.  If I were him, I would just submit the docuмent, and save some money (wouldn't you?).  

WND also has reported that among the docuмentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records and his adoption records.

Why not submit all these records?  They would indicate where he was born.  What is he hiding?  A presidents life is supposed to be an open book.

I wish he'd release the long form . . .

Why doesn't he?  Why doesn't he?  Why doesn't he?

I had to give my BC to get a drivers license, when I was young.  It was no trouble at all.  I didn't spend $1 million trying to keep it hidden.  

All he has to do is show it.  This whole thing would end.  But he won't.  Why (and why not show the other docs as well)?  The BC says something that he doesn't want to be known.

You should stop looking at this with rose colored glasses.

I don't know why he does not...

Then quit defending him.

but I don't draw conclusions out of my ignorance.

Oh, yes you do.  

I note that you declined to respond to my reasonable and all important question.  

It's a red herring.  The only important question is:  Why won't he show his BC?

I hope you will at least ask yourself that question in private.

I did. (read below)

WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Guess how many ways to get Hawaii 'birth certificate'
Some required nothing more than assertion from an adult
Posted: July 29, 2009
10:57 pm Eastern
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=105371

By Bob Unruh
WorldNetDaily

An analysis of Hawaii's birth recording requirements around the time of Barack Obama's 1961 birth reveals several ways to generate a "Certificate of Birth," including some that require no docuмentation other than the assertion of a adult.

The word comes in a report by an investigator commissioned by a retired CIA officer. The report was posted online by the Western Center for Journalism, which withheld the officer's name.

"In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an 'original birth certificate' on record," the investigator says, including a report to the Department of Health from an attending physician or midwife.

But if the certificate was obtained through any of the other three options, "Obama would have a very good reason not to release the vault birth certificate," the investigator said.

"If the original certificate were the standard … type of birth certificate (docuмented by a physician or midwife), he would have allowed its release and brought the controversy to a quick end," the report said. The investigator said if the birth certificate was obtained by one of the other methods, then it contributes to the overall questions raised about Obama's eligibility.

"And the fact that though there are many witnesses to Ann Dunham's presence on Oahu from Sept. 1960 to Feb. 1961, there are no witnesses to her being on Oahu from March 1961 to August 1962 when she returned from Seattle and the University of Washington. No Hawaiian physicians, nurses, or midwives have come forward with any recollection of Barack Obama's birth," the report said.

While it's clear that release of the original birth certificate would answer many questions about Obama's origins, it is far from the only docuмent in dispute. WND has reported that docuмentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records and his adoption records.

WND also reported previously that the short-form "Certification of Live Birth" posted online presented by Obama as docuмentation of his reported Hawaiian birth doesn't alone "prove" his birth, according to government officials.

U.S. State Department officials say the law is "complicated," and Hawaii state officials said such docuмents are issued only when certain standards have been met.

But the investigator reported there are scenarios that don't involve a physician.

"In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then all that was required was that one of the parents send in a birth certificate to be filed. The birth certificate could be filed by mail. There appears to have been no requirement for the parent to actually physically appear before 'the local registrar of the district,'" the investigator said. He called this option BC2.

"It would have been very easy for a relative to forge an absent parent's signature to a form and mail it in. In addition, if a claim was made that 'neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as above provided is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local registrar shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate,'" the report said. "I asked the Dept of Health what they currently ask for (in 2008) to back up a parent's claim that a child was born in Hawaii. I was told that all they required was a proof of residence in Hawaii (e.g. a driver's license … and pre-natal (statement or report that a woman was pregnant) and post-natal (statement or report that a new-born baby has been examined) certification by a physician. On further enquiry, the employee that I spoke to informed me that the pre-natal and post-natal certifications had probably not been in force in the '60s. Even if they had been, there is and was no requirement for a physician or midwife to witness, state or report that the baby was born in Hawaii."

Another opportunity arises because of the law in force in 1961 in Hawaii that if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, a 'Delayed Certificate' could be filed, which required that 'a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing or the alteration [of a file] shall be endorsed on the certificates,' which 'evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file,'" the report said of the option called BC3.

"In other words, this form of vault birth certificate, the Delayed Certificate, required no more than a statement before a government bureaucrat by one of the parents or (the law does not seem to me clear on this) one of Barack Obama’s grandparents. If the latter is true, Ann Dunham did not have to be present for this statement or even in the country," the investigator said.

Finally, a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth is available for those born in Hawaii without attendance and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed.

There actually was one further option, but it didn't become law until 1982, the report said. Under Act 182, "Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that the proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

"In this way 'state policies and procedures' accommodate even 'children born out of State,'" the report said, noting, "This is the actual language of Act 182.

"So it is even possible that the birth certificate referred to by [state Health Department chief] Dr. [Chiyome] Fukino is of the kind specified in Act 182. This possibility cannot be dismissed because such a certificate certainly satisfies Dr. Fukino's statement that, "I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

Such a statement could apply to any one of several of the birth certificate options in Hawaii, the report said.

"I only bring up this possibility to show how cleverly hedged and 'lawyered' and basically worthless Dr. Fukino's statement is," the investigator said.

"The fact that Obama refuses to release the vault birth certificate that would instantly clear up this matter almost certainly indicates that the vault birth certificate is probably a BC2 or possibly a BC3," the report said.

"It is also very strange that Dr. Fukino's statement in no way attested to (or even addressed the issue of) the authenticity of the 'Certification of Live Birth' (and the information that appears on it) that the Daily Kos blog and the Obama campaign posted on line," the investigator pondered.

The absence of a hospital name or physician on the vault certificate would mean Obama wasn't born in a hospital in Hawaii. A home birth also could be ruled because of other evidence, the report said.

"When someone has a home birth or is not born in a hospital, this becomes a part of his family's lore and is now and again spoken of by his parents. He and his siblings grow up knowing that he was born at home or his uncle's house, etc. The fact that someone in the campaign told a Washington Post reporter that he was born in Kapiolani hospital and his sister said he was born at Queens hospital indicates that there was not and is not any Obama/Dunham family memory of a home birth or non-hospital birth in Hawaii," the report said.

Want to turn up the pressure to learn the facts? Get your signs and postcards asking for the president's birth certificate docuмentation here.

The investigator said the "Certification of Live Birth" posted online by the campaign "proves nothing."

The investigator said the reason for a deception, given the probable of the origins of the birth certificate, are plain.

A young girl giving birth in a foreign country to a child whose father was not an American citizen did not have the right to pass along American citizenship, the report said.

"When enacted in 1952, section 301 [of federal immigration laws at the time] required a U.S. citizen married to an alien to have been physically present in the United States for 10 years, including five after reaching the age of fourteen, to transmit citizenship to foreign-born children. The 10-year transmission requirement remained in effect from 12:01 a.m. EDT December 24, 1952, through midnight November 13, 1986, and still is applicable to persons born during that period," the investigator said.

"Even if the law was retroactively changed to grant citizenship (but not 'natural-born' citizenship) to some of those who had at birth been denied it. If a person is not at the time of his birth an American citizen, he cannot be a natural-born citizen. Therefore, that person is ineligible under Article II, Section1 for the Office of President of the United States," the report concluded.

Here is the "Certification of Live Birth" presented by Obama:

Short-form "Certification of Live Birth"

And here is an image of an actual long-form Hawaiian birth certificate from the same hospital President Obama reports he was born at from the day after the president's birth:


Photostat of Susan Nordyke's 1961 Hawaii birth certificate (Courtesy Honolulu Advertiser)

The report warned of the possible ramifications, including invalid president orders and appointments.

"The only way out of the present constitutional crisis is for Obama to do as McCain did when he was confronted by far less pressing doubts about the circuмstances of his birth. He must disclose his vault birth certificate. Since the docuмent has been so suspiciously withheld for so long, it should be subjected to rigorous forensic tests," the report said.

But raising a red flag that cannot be ignored are several other circuмstances, the investigator said. One is that one of Obama's top advisers, John O. Brennen, heads a firm that was cited for breaching State Department passport files belonging to Obama.

Further relevant information "may" be obtained from a Washington Times report that a key witness in the passport investigation was found dead.

The Times said Lt. Quarles hαɾɾιs Jr., 24, who was cooperating with investigators, was found dead inside a car in front of a Washington church.

The report said, "City police said they do not know whether his death was a direct result of his cooperation with federal investigators."

No matter what the profane topic, it seems that Vandaler always makes haste to swoop in and push the popular opinion, as if he feels it almost a moral obligation.  Very strange behavior.  In order to check this communist mentality, someone should remind him that good men can differ and that each is entitled to an opinion based on what they see as more or less probability according to the evidence.  Never fear, Vandaler, the world won't fall to pieces if it turns out any particular popular story propagated by the accepted sources is actually false, tainted or skewed in someway.  One wonders at the trust and faith you put in what is presented to your eyes by the media, like a little birdy totally captivated by the shiny light.  

In asking...

Quote

Why doesn't he?  Why doesn't he?  Why doesn't he?

Three times,  , you are implying a number of things.  You are implying that the controversy is kept alive by keeping the long form out of the public eye (true, agreed) and that he, Obama wants the controversy to go away (false dilemma, not necessarily true).  ie, You are making an assumption that is not necessarily true.  Thinking that he wants the controversy to end, is actually a failure of imagination.

I asked three times, to underscore the importance of that question, because it's the only one that matters.  If Obama wants a distraction, he can create one that doesn't undermine his presidency.  

First, Obama did not spend a dime for his legal defense, this is paid for by unspent money during his campaign, so it's rather a question of whither if politically, this is well spent money and it sure is (it's actually quite scandalous that so much money could be squandered).

The birther issue is one that divides the Republicans (no, it doesn't), not the Democrats, and it is actually an issue that is dogging the Republicans (it isn't).  

You ask me why ? (no, not really) well, I will answer, the birthers are dogging the Republicans (they're not) by turning off the an important part of it's constituants (they haven't) and as long that it is the case (it isn't), and that birthers claims are hurting the Republicans (they're not), you will not see his Long birth certificate (I won't see it because, he was born in Kenya).

1 Million in campaign money (very little) to drive a wedge (it hasn't) into the opposing party is a bargain if you ask me.  

The issue doesn't divide the Republicans.  What a ridiculous theory.

Now, there is little more to discuss, since we both are speculating...

You are the only one speculating, without anything to back up your ideas.  I have given factual information to support what I've said.  

For the record, the facts are:

1.)  Obama has not shown an actual Birth Certificate.

2.)  The Certificate of Live Birth proves nothing.

3.)  His Grandmother has stated that she was present when he was born in Mombasa, Kenya.

CASE CLOSED