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Offline Irenaeus

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From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
« on: October 17, 2009, 01:11:41 PM »
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  • Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm

    Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.

    The allegations that horrified fellow Republicans and caused his once-promising candidacy to implode in four short days have given Obama a clear lead as Republicans struggled to fetch an alternative.

    Ryan’s campaign began to crumble on Monday following the release of embarrassing records from his divorce. In the records, his ex-wife, Boston Public actress Jeri Ryan, said her former husband took her to kinky sex clubs in Paris, New York and New Orleans.         

    "It’s clear to me that a vigorous debate on the issues most likely could not take place if I remain in the race," Ryan, 44, said in a statement. "What would take place, rather, is a brutal, scorched-earth campaign – the kind of campaign that has turned off so many voters, the kind of politics I refuse to play."

    Although Ryan disputed the allegations, saying he and his wife went to one ‘avant-garde’ club in Paris and left because they felt uncomfortable, lashed out at the media and said it was "truly outrageous" that the Chicago Tribune got a judge to unseal the records.

    The Republican choice will become an instant underdog in the campaign for the seat of retiring Republican Senator Peter Fitzgerald, since Obama held a wide lead even before the scandal broke.

    "I feel for him actually," Obama told a Chicago TV station. "What he’s gone through over the last three days I think is something you wouldn’t wish on anybody."

    The Republican state committee must now choose a replacement for Ryan, who had won in the primaries against seven contenders. Its task is complicated by the fact that Obama holds a comfortable lead in the polls and is widely regarded as a rising Democratic star.

    The chairwoman of the Illinois Republican Party, Judy Topinka, said at a news conference, after Ryan withdrew, that Republicans would probably take several weeks to settle on a new candidate.

    "Obviously, this is a bad week for our party and our state," she said.

    As recently as Thursday, spokesmen for the Ryan campaign still insisted that Ryan would remain in the race. Ryan had defended himself saying, "There’s no breaking of any laws. There’s no breaking of any marriage laws. There’s no breaking of the Ten Commandments anywhere."
     In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin.  (Ecclesiasticus 7:40)

    Offline Irenaeus

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #1 on: October 17, 2009, 01:22:24 PM »
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  • That was an AP article, originally.  Funny how the MSM has forgotten what it knew back then.  :devil2:
     In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin.  (Ecclesiasticus 7:40)


    Offline Vandaler

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #2 on: October 19, 2009, 08:11:59 AM »
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  • Offline Irenaeus

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #3 on: October 19, 2009, 10:40:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Vandaler
    No, what is forgotten is the entire context of this article, and the attempts by some to use past mistakes in the media to further their pet causes.


    Pet cause?  Obama is a Kenyan, regardless of what this article says.  There is plenty of information to verify that.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php

    Why are you defending him?  
     In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin.  (Ecclesiasticus 7:40)

    Offline Vandaler

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 11:08:34 PM »
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  • Irenaeus,

    You posted erroneous information about what the AP allegedly knew while it being false.  I corrected you and by the same token, protected the AP, not Obama.

    WND has no information pertaining to Obama being a Kenyan.... If it does, show me the evidence, rather then simply pointing to their index.





    Offline Irenaeus

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #5 on: October 20, 2009, 07:28:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Obama Lover
    Irenaeus,

    You posted erroneous information about what the AP allegedly knew while it being false.  I corrected you and by the same token, protected the AP, not Obama.

    WND has no information pertaining to Obama being a Kenyan.... If it does, show me the evidence, rather then simply pointing to their index.


    The AP article is irrelevant.  Obama is a Kenyan.  There is enough evidence to show that.  Now I'll correct you.

    WND has pointed out the very clear fact that Obama has never produced an actual Birth Certificate.  He has only shown a Certificate of Live Birth.  A BC proves one was born in the US, a CoLB does not.

    Quote from: WND
    The "certification of live birth" posted online and widely touted as "Obama's birth certificate" does not in any way prove he was born in Hawaii, since the same "short-form" document is easily obtainable for children not born in Hawaii. The true "long-form" birth certificate – which includes information such as the name of the birth hospital and attending physician – is the only document that can prove Obama was born in Hawaii, but to date he has not permitted its release for public or press scrutiny.


    Obama has spent $1 million, fighting legal challenges all over this country, to force him to show his BC.  If I were him, I would just submit the document, and save some money (wouldn't you?).  

    Quote from: WND
    WND also has reported that among the documentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records and his adoption records.


    Why not submit all these records?  They would indicate where he was born.  What is he hiding?  A presidents life is supposed to be an open book.
     In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin.  (Ecclesiasticus 7:40)

    Offline Vandaler

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #6 on: October 20, 2009, 08:25:15 PM »
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  • Ok, let's see.

    You are right in the claim that one does not need to have been born in the U.S. to obtain a short form birth certificate, however, if the baby is foreign born it will not write that the baby was born in the U.S.  Your contention that this is possible is something that I demand that you explain.  It's stupid. Seriously.  Demand more then just reading WND.  Why does the short form write that he is born in Honolulu ?



    If he was born out of the U.S., his short form would say so.

    Quote from: Janice Okubo, the director of communications for the state Department of Health to the Washington Independent's
    "You could not get a certificate saying you were born in Honolulu. The state has to verify a fact like that for it to appear on the certificate."

    http://washingtonindependent.com/51489/birther-movement-picks-up-steam

    Seriously, I ask you to show how it's possible to have the short form say he is born in Honolulu when he is not.

    That being said, I wish he'd release the long form as well to put this to rest for good and I ignore the reasons for him doing so, but your ad ignorantium approach which states that: "what we don't know, or can't see proves that he is a Kenyan" is weak and does not pass mustard with me.

    The fact is that even if anyone can request a short form birth certificate, it will still be accurate.  WND is duping people by stretching the relevance of the fact that people not born in the U.S. can obtain a short form.

    So I ask you, why does it say he was born in Honolulu and what other reasons do you have to doubt it's veracity, having been shown that place of birth if outside the U.S. is validated and written accurately ?



    Offline Irenaeus

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #7 on: October 20, 2009, 09:08:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Vandaler
    I wish he'd release the long form . . .


    Why doesn't he?  Why doesn't he?  Why doesn't he?

    I had to give my BC to get a drivers license, when I was young.  It was no trouble at all.  I didn't spend $1 million trying to keep it hidden.  

    All he has to do is show it.  This whole thing would end.  But he won't.  Why (and why not show the other docs as well)?  The BC says something that he doesn't want to be known.

    You should stop looking at this with rose colored glasses.
     In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin.  (Ecclesiasticus 7:40)


    Offline Vandaler

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #8 on: October 20, 2009, 09:23:47 PM »
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  • I don't know why he does not... but I don't draw conclusions out of my ignorance.

    I note that you declined to respond to my reasonable and all important question.  I hope you will at least ask yourself that question in private.

     


    Offline Irenaeus

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #9 on: October 20, 2009, 10:36:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Vandaler
    I don't know why he does not...

    Then quit defending him.

    but I don't draw conclusions out of my ignorance.

    Oh, yes you do.  

    I note that you declined to respond to my reasonable and all important question.  

    It's a red herring.  The only important question is:  Why won't he show his BC?

    I hope you will at least ask yourself that question in private.

    I did. (read below)



    WorldNetDaily Exclusive
    Guess how many ways to get Hawaii 'birth certificate'
    Some required nothing more than assertion from an adult

    Posted: July 29, 2009
    10:57 pm Eastern
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=105371

    By Bob Unruh
    WorldNetDaily

    An analysis of Hawaii's birth recording requirements around the time of Barack Obama's 1961 birth reveals several ways to generate a "Certificate of Birth," including some that require no documentation other than the assertion of a adult.

    The word comes in a report by an investigator commissioned by a retired CIA officer. The report was posted online by the Western Center for Journalism, which withheld the officer's name.

    "In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an 'original birth certificate' on record," the investigator says, including a report to the Department of Health from an attending physician or midwife.

    But if the certificate was obtained through any of the other three options, "Obama would have a very good reason not to release the vault birth certificate," the investigator said.

    "If the original certificate were the standard … type of birth certificate (documented by a physician or midwife), he would have allowed its release and brought the controversy to a quick end," the report said. The investigator said if the birth certificate was obtained by one of the other methods, then it contributes to the overall questions raised about Obama's eligibility.

    "And the fact that though there are many witnesses to Ann Dunham's presence on Oahu from Sept. 1960 to Feb. 1961, there are no witnesses to her being on Oahu from March 1961 to August 1962 when she returned from Seattle and the University of Washington. No Hawaiian physicians, nurses, or midwives have come forward with any recollection of Barack Obama's birth," the report said.

    While it's clear that release of the original birth certificate would answer many questions about Obama's origins, it is far from the only document in dispute. WND has reported that documentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records and his adoption records.

    WND also reported previously that the short-form "Certification of Live Birth" posted online presented by Obama as documentation of his reported Hawaiian birth doesn't alone "prove" his birth, according to government officials.

    U.S. State Department officials say the law is "complicated," and Hawaii state officials said such documents are issued only when certain standards have been met.

    But the investigator reported there are scenarios that don't involve a physician.

    "In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then all that was required was that one of the parents send in a birth certificate to be filed. The birth certificate could be filed by mail. There appears to have been no requirement for the parent to actually physically appear before 'the local registrar of the district,'" the investigator said. He called this option BC2.

    "It would have been very easy for a relative to forge an absent parent's signature to a form and mail it in. In addition, if a claim was made that 'neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as above provided is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local registrar shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate,'" the report said. "I asked the Dept of Health what they currently ask for (in 2008) to back up a parent's claim that a child was born in Hawaii. I was told that all they required was a proof of residence in Hawaii (e.g. a driver's license … and pre-natal (statement or report that a woman was pregnant) and post-natal (statement or report that a new-born baby has been examined) certification by a physician. On further enquiry, the employee that I spoke to informed me that the pre-natal and post-natal certifications had probably not been in force in the '60s. Even if they had been, there is and was no requirement for a physician or midwife to witness, state or report that the baby was born in Hawaii."

    Another opportunity arises because of the law in force in 1961 in Hawaii that if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, a 'Delayed Certificate' could be filed, which required that 'a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing or the alteration [of a file] shall be endorsed on the certificates,' which 'evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file,'" the report said of the option called BC3.

    "In other words, this form of vault birth certificate, the Delayed Certificate, required no more than a statement before a government bureaucrat by one of the parents or (the law does not seem to me clear on this) one of Barack Obama’s grandparents. If the latter is true, Ann Dunham did not have to be present for this statement or even in the country," the investigator said.

    Finally, a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth is available for those born in Hawaii without attendance and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed.

    There actually was one further option, but it didn't become law until 1982, the report said. Under Act 182, "Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that the proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

    "In this way 'state policies and procedures' accommodate even 'children born out of State,'" the report said, noting, "This is the actual language of Act 182.

    "So it is even possible that the birth certificate referred to by [state Health Department chief] Dr. [Chiyome] Fukino is of the kind specified in Act 182. This possibility cannot be dismissed because such a certificate certainly satisfies Dr. Fukino's statement that, "I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

    Such a statement could apply to any one of several of the birth certificate options in Hawaii, the report said.

    "I only bring up this possibility to show how cleverly hedged and 'lawyered' and basically worthless Dr. Fukino's statement is," the investigator said.

    "The fact that Obama refuses to release the vault birth certificate that would instantly clear up this matter almost certainly indicates that the vault birth certificate is probably a BC2 or possibly a BC3," the report said.

    "It is also very strange that Dr. Fukino's statement in no way attested to (or even addressed the issue of) the authenticity of the 'Certification of Live Birth' (and the information that appears on it) that the Daily Kos blog and the Obama campaign posted on line," the investigator pondered.

    The absence of a hospital name or physician on the vault certificate would mean Obama wasn't born in a hospital in Hawaii. A home birth also could be ruled because of other evidence, the report said.

    "When someone has a home birth or is not born in a hospital, this becomes a part of his family's lore and is now and again spoken of by his parents. He and his siblings grow up knowing that he was born at home or his uncle's house, etc. The fact that someone in the campaign told a Washington Post reporter that he was born in Kapiolani hospital and his sister said he was born at Queens hospital indicates that there was not and is not any Obama/Dunham family memory of a home birth or non-hospital birth in Hawaii," the report said.

    Want to turn up the pressure to learn the facts? Get your signs and postcards asking for the president's birth certificate documentation here.

    The investigator said the "Certification of Live Birth" posted online by the campaign "proves nothing."

    The investigator said the reason for a deception, given the probable of the origins of the birth certificate, are plain.

    A young girl giving birth in a foreign country to a child whose father was not an American citizen did not have the right to pass along American citizenship, the report said.

    "When enacted in 1952, section 301 [of federal immigration laws at the time] required a U.S. citizen married to an alien to have been physically present in the United States for 10 years, including five after reaching the age of fourteen, to transmit citizenship to foreign-born children. The 10-year transmission requirement remained in effect from 12:01 a.m. EDT December 24, 1952, through midnight November 13, 1986, and still is applicable to persons born during that period," the investigator said.

    "Even if the law was retroactively changed to grant citizenship (but not 'natural-born' citizenship) to some of those who had at birth been denied it. If a person is not at the time of his birth an American citizen, he cannot be a natural-born citizen. Therefore, that person is ineligible under Article II, Section1 for the Office of President of the United States," the report concluded.

    Here is the "Certification of Live Birth" presented by Obama:

    Short-form "Certification of Live Birth"

    And here is an image of an actual long-form Hawaiian birth certificate from the same hospital President Obama reports he was born at from the day after the president's birth:


    Photostat of Susan Nordyke's 1961 Hawaii birth certificate (Courtesy Honolulu Advertiser)

    The report warned of the possible ramifications, including invalid president orders and appointments.

    "The only way out of the present constitutional crisis is for Obama to do as McCain did when he was confronted by far less pressing doubts about the circumstances of his birth. He must disclose his vault birth certificate. Since the document has been so suspiciously withheld for so long, it should be subjected to rigorous forensic tests," the report said.

    But raising a red flag that cannot be ignored are several other circumstances, the investigator said. One is that one of Obama's top advisers, John O. Brennen, heads a firm that was cited for breaching State Department passport files belonging to Obama.

    Further relevant information "may" be obtained from a Washington Times report that a key witness in the passport investigation was found dead.

    The Times said Lt. Quarles Harris Jr., 24, who was cooperating with investigators, was found dead inside a car in front of a Washington church.

    The report said, "City police said they do not know whether his death was a direct result of his cooperation with federal investigators."
     In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin.  (Ecclesiasticus 7:40)

    Offline Vandaler

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #10 on: October 21, 2009, 08:35:12 AM »
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  • Ok, I suppose I do owe you an explanation as to why I think Obama was born out of the U.S. while not knowing why he is blocking the release of the long form birth certificate at the expense to now almost 1 Million dollars.

    I do not know why... for sure that is, but I surely can speculate, just like you do.

    In asking...
    Quote

    Why doesn't he?  Why doesn't he?  Why doesn't he?


    Three times,  :laugh1:, you are implying a number of things.  You are implying that the controversy is kept alive by keeping the long form out of the public eye (true, agreed) and that he, Obama wants the controversy to go away (false dilemma, not necessarily true).  ie, You are making an assumption that is not necessarily true.  Thinking that he wants the controversy to end, is actually a failure of imagination.

    First, Obama did not spend a dime for his legal defense, this is paid for by unspent money during his campaign, so it's rather a question of whither if politically, this is well spent money and it sure is

    The birther issue is one that divides the Republicans, not the Democrats, and it is actually an issue that is dogging the Republicans.  

    You ask me why ?  well, I will answer, the birthers are dogging the Republicans by turning off the an important part of it's constituants and as long that it is the case, and that birthers claims are hurting the Republicans, you will not see his Long birth certificate.

    1 Million in campaign money (very little) to drive a wedge into the opposing party is a bargain if you ask me.  

    Now, there is little more to discuss, since we both are speculating...









    Offline Caminus

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #11 on: October 21, 2009, 11:08:16 AM »
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  • No matter what the profane topic, it seems that Vandaler always makes haste to swoop in and push the popular opinion, as if he feels it almost a moral obligation.  Very strange behavior.  In order to check this communist mentality, someone should remind him that good men can differ and that each is entitled to an opinion based on what they see as more or less probability according to the evidence.  Never fear, Vandaler, the world won't fall to pieces if it turns out any particular popular story propagated by the accepted sources is actually false, tainted or skewed in someway.  One wonders at the trust and faith you put in what is presented to your eyes by the media, like a little birdy totally captivated by the shiny light.  

    Offline Irenaeus

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #12 on: October 21, 2009, 07:41:56 PM »
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  • Did Obama's grandmother say he was born in Kenya?
    Listen to audio! Witnesses contend interpreter tried to change her answer to 'Hawaii'

    Posted: August 24, 2009
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=107524

    By Jerome R. Corsi
    © 2009 WorldNetDaily


    Barack Obama and his step-grandmother Sarah Hussein Obama

    Although no other evidence has surfaced placing Barack Obama's mother in Kenya at the time of the president's birth, a taped telephone conversation in which his Kenyan step-grandmother purportedly claims he was born in the coastal city of Mombasa has become an Internet hit since its submission as evidence in a lawsuit challenging the president's eligibility.

    Philip J. Berg, a former Pennsylvania deputy attorney general, included a transcript of the tape and sworn affidavits in a filing with the U.S. Supreme Court after lower courts dismissed as frivolous his Aug. 21, 2008, complaint alleging Obama was born in Mombasa.

    The Oct. 16, 2008, telephone interview was conducted by American Christian minister Ron McRae, who describes himself in his affidavit as an overseer of the Anabaptist Churches in North America and a "Presiding Elder on the African Presbytery."

    McRae, who called from Detroit, says Sarah Obama was in a public setting with several hundred people listening to the telephone call on a speakerphone. The interpreter was Vitalis Akech Ogombe, the community chairman of Sarah Obama's village of Nyang'oma Kogelo in Western Kenya, 30 miles west of the Lake Victoria-city of Kisumu.

    "In the ensuing public conversation, I asked Ms. Obama specifically, 'Were you present when your grandson was born in Kenya?'" McRae testified in his sworn statement. "This was asked to her in translation twice, and both times she replied, "Yes! Yes she was! She was present when Obama was born."

    Critics point out many reasons to be skeptical of the claim, including the possibility something was lost in the translation between an American minister who presupposed Obama was born in Kenya and an elderly African woman who reportedly knows no English. Amid cross-talk in a combination of English, Swahili and the local Luo tribal dialect, could she have understood McRae simply to be asking where she was when Barack Obama Jr. was born?

    Moreover, the critics argue, her interpreter immediately clarified that her famous grandson was born in Hawaii, not Kenya.

    Many versions of the tape posted by bloggers who contend it is evidence Obama was born in Kenya are cut off immediately after the point where the grandmother apparently affirms her presence at the birth. The truncated versions leave out the section in which the interpreter insists she actually meant the birth took place in the U.S.

    In addition, a March 27, 2007, story by Tim Jones of the Tribune News Service recounts how Sarah Obama received a letter from Barack Obama Sr. telling of his plan to marry Stanley Ann Dunham. Sarah Hussein's husband, Hussein Onyango Obama, was said to be angered by the news. Six months later, Jones reported, the Kenyan family received a letter announcing the Aug. 4, 1961, birth. The Tribune reporter noted an interview with Sarah Obama in which she said she was "so happy to have a grandchild in the U.S."

    Aside from the inference that the grandmother first learned of the birth through a letter, the Kenyan patriarch's anger over the marriage makes it even more unlikely Ann Dunham would have traveled to Kenya during her pregnancy.

    Nevertheless, two members of Sarah Hussein Obama's Luo tribe who are fluent in the local Luo dialect, Swahlili and English told WND that after carefully listening to the tape they believe she declared Barack Obama Jr. was born in Mombasa, Kenya, and that she was present at the birth.

    Tale of the tape

    Sarah Hussein Obama, who is not a blood relative of the president, is the third wife of Obama's paternal grandfather. According to New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof, who visited her village during the presidential campaign, the grandmother is illiterate and doesn't know when she was born. Several news reports say she was born in 1922.

    The controversy over the tape centers on the interpreter, who at the end interjects repeatedly that the grandmother said Obama was born in Hawaii.

    One of the WND sources who listened to the tape knows Sarah Obama and has met with her in her home village. The other holds a respected position in the Kenyan government.

    The source who knows the grandmother declared: "I have keenly and attentively listened to the tape over and over again, and I can confirm from Sarah's own confession that Barack Obama was born in Kenya in her presence."

    The source said that while Sarah Obama' voice is hard to hear on the recording, "she admits of actually having been there at his birth."

    He said that while the people in the room with Sarah Obama "tried as much as they [could] to change the tone of the whole story … to me it seems someone is coaching her from the background and seemingly trying to guide her on what to say."

    The Kenyan government source agreed.

    "I have listened to the tape," he said. "The preacher asked whether Barack Obama was born in Mombasa, and the translator asked the same. When she said Mombasa, it was like a surprise, and those there thought she could not have meant to say Mombasa."

    The source said that at that point "they began insisting Hawaii was where Barack Obama was born."

    Sarah Obama can be heard uttering "Mombasa" in response to McRae's question about where Obama was born.

    At this point a confused discussion erupts in the background in Kogelo.

    McRae explained the disruption as follows:

    Though, some few younger relatives, including Mr. Ogombe, have obviously been versed to counter such facts with the purported information from the American news media that Obama was born in Hawaii, Ms. Sarah Hussein Obama was very adamant that her grandson, Senator Barack Huseein Obama, was born in Kenya, and that she was present and witnessed his birth in Kenya, not the United States.

    When Mr. Ogombe attempted to counter Sarah Obama's clear responses to the question, verifying the birth of Senator Obama in Kenya, I asked Mr. Ogombe, how she could be present at Barack Obama's birth if the Senator was born in Hawaii, but Ogombe would not answer the question, instead he repeatedly tried to insert that, "No, No, No. He was born in the United States!

    But during the conversation, Ms. Sarah Hussein Obama never changed her reply that she was indeed present when Senator Barack Obama was born in Kenya," McRae concluded.


    A second affidavit was sworn by Kenyan Anabaptist minister Rev. Kweli Shuhubia, a pseudonym chosen to protect his safety.

    Shuhubia, a native evangelist and translator for the Anabaptist churches in Kenya, was present in Kogelo during the taped telephone conversation.

    Shuhubia's recollection of the conversation agrees with McRae's and the interpretation of the interview by WND's sources in Kenya.

    Bishop McRae asked Ms. Obama specifically, "Were you present when your grandson Barack Obama was born in Kenya?" This was asked to here in translation twice, and both times she specifically replied, "Yes."

    It appeared Ms. Obama's relatives and her grandson, handling the translation, had obviously been versed to counter such facts with the purported information from the American news media that Obama was born in Hawaii. Despite this, Ms. Sarah Hussein Obama was very adamant that her grandson, Senator Barack Hussein Obama, was born in Kenya, and that she was present and witnessed his birth in Kenya, not the United States.

    When Ms. Obama's grandson attempted to counter his grandmother's clear responses to the question, verifying the birth of Senator Obama in Kenya, Bishop McRae asked her grandson, how she could be present at Barack Obama's birth if the Senator was born in Hawaii, but the grandson would not answer the question, instead he repeatedly tried to insert that, "No, No, No. He was born in the United States!"


    Shuhubia also testified in his affidavit that Sarah Obama "never changed her reply" that she was present in person when Senator Obama was born in Kenya.

    He further testified that he traveled to Mombasa, Kenya, where he interviewed personnel at Coast Provincial Hospital

    "I then had meetings with the Provincial Civil Registrar," he swore. "I learned there were records of Ann Dunham giving birth to Barack Hussein Obama, III, in Mombasa, Kenya, on Aug. 4, 1961.

    "I spoke directly with an Official, the Principal Registrar, who openly confirmed the birthing records of Senator Barack H. Obama Jr. and his mother were present, however the file on Barack H. Obama Jr.'s birth in Kenya is top secret," he stated
     In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin.  (Ecclesiasticus 7:40)

    Offline Irenaeus

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #13 on: October 24, 2009, 01:05:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: Vandaler

    In asking...
    Quote

    Why doesn't he?  Why doesn't he?  Why doesn't he?


    Three times,  :laugh1:, you are implying a number of things.  You are implying that the controversy is kept alive by keeping the long form out of the public eye (true, agreed) and that he, Obama wants the controversy to go away (false dilemma, not necessarily true).  ie, You are making an assumption that is not necessarily true.  Thinking that he wants the controversy to end, is actually a failure of imagination.

    I asked three times, to underscore the importance of that question, because it's the only one that matters.  If Obama wants a distraction, he can create one that doesn't undermine his presidency.  

    First, Obama did not spend a dime for his legal defense, this is paid for by unspent money during his campaign, so it's rather a question of whither if politically, this is well spent money and it sure is (it's actually quite scandalous that so much money could be squandered).

    The birther issue is one that divides the Republicans (no, it doesn't), not the Democrats, and it is actually an issue that is dogging the Republicans (it isn't).  

    You ask me why ? (no, not really) well, I will answer, the birthers are dogging the Republicans (they're not) by turning off the an important part of it's constituants (they haven't) and as long that it is the case (it isn't), and that birthers claims are hurting the Republicans (they're not), you will not see his Long birth certificate (I won't see it because, he was born in Kenya).

    1 Million in campaign money (very little) to drive a wedge (it hasn't) into the opposing party is a bargain if you ask me.  

    The issue doesn't divide the Republicans.  What a ridiculous theory.

    Now, there is little more to discuss, since we both are speculating...

    You are the only one speculating, without anything to back up your ideas.  I have given factual information to support what I've said.  


    For the record, the facts are:

    1.)  Obama has not shown an actual Birth Certificate.

    2.)  The Certificate of Live Birth proves nothing.

    3.)  His Grandmother has stated that she was present when he was born in Mombasa, Kenya.

    CASE CLOSED
     In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin.  (Ecclesiasticus 7:40)

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    From 2004: Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate
    « Reply #14 on: October 24, 2009, 10:55:33 AM »
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  • Quote from: Caminus
    No matter what the profane topic, it seems that Vandaler always makes haste to swoop in and push the popular opinion, as if he feels it almost a moral obligation.  Very strange behavior.  In order to check this communist mentality, someone should remind him that good men can differ and that each is entitled to an opinion based on what they see as more or less probability according to the evidence.  Never fear, Vandaler, the world won't fall to pieces if it turns out any particular popular story propagated by the accepted sources is actually false, tainted or skewed in someway.  One wonders at the trust and faith you put in what is presented to your eyes by the media, like a little birdy totally captivated by the shiny light.  




     :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


     

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