Author Topic: Family Seperation  (Read 926 times)

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Offline poche

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Family Seperation
« on: March 06, 2018, 02:20:52 AM »
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  • WHAT, EXACTLY, did a 7-year-old Congolese girl do to the United States to deserve the trauma that has been visited upon her — including forcible separation from her mother — by Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen and her immigration agents?
     There is no allegation that the little girl, known in court filings only as S.S., is a terrorist, nor is there any suggestion her mother is one. Neither was involved with smuggling, nor contraband, nor lawbreaking of any other variety. Rather, S.S.’s 39-year-old mother presented herself and her daughter to U.S. officials when they crossed the border from Mexico four months ago, explaining they had fled extreme violence in Congo, and requesting asylum.
     A U.S. asylum officer interviewed Ms. L, as the mother is called in a lawsuit filed on her behalf by the American Civil Liberties Union, determined that she had a credible fear of harm if she were returned to Congo and stood a decent chance of ultimately being granted asylum. Despite that preliminary finding, officials decided that the right thing to do was to wrench S.S. from her mother, whereupon the mother “could hear her daughter in the next room frantically screaming that she wanted to remain with her mother,” the lawsuit states.
     The Tɾυmρ administration has said that it is considering separating parents from their children as a means of deterring other families, most of them Central American, from undertaking the perilous trip necessary to reach the United States and seek asylum. Now, without any formal announcement, that cruel practice, ruled out by previous administrations, has become increasingly common, immigrant advocacy groups say. In the nine months preceding February, government agents separated children from their parents 53 times, according to data compiled by the Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service.
     
     https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/o...story.html
     
     What is the Catholic moral position relating to this gratuitous separation of mother from child?

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 11:45:25 AM »
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  • I'm glad u bring this up

    There is no doubt that many put laws (and $$) over human beings

    I don't know enough about this particular story but if all u say here is true, it is an injustice. People should be given at least temporary asylum in such situations. Instead of the US coddling criminals (sanctuary cities!) they should throw those bums out and instead focus on people like these ones.. The liberals are always trying to help the criminal illegals, it seems.. instead of people like the ones here mentioned.

    anyway... Even those in my party (R) often seem to put money and a strict adherence to the "law" over ... the spirit of the law, which is supposed to be about justice and humanity. If laws are made that exclude compassion, well, it is time to question those laws. However, that said, many people probably claim they need asylum.. just so as to get into the US... so I don't know... 


    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 01:16:45 PM »
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  • " Neither was involved with smuggling, nor contraband, nor lawbreaking of any other variety."

    Umm.. yes, they broke the law of a sovereign nation by crossing it's borders illegally. The author doesn't know much about them except how to use the story to promote his agenda. Maybe she's a nice lady, maybe she's some kind of criminal. We just don't know- and that's a big part of the problem.

    If they were so glad to escape Congo, why didn't they stay in the nearest country available to them instead of making a bee-line for the US? Why didn't they stay in Mexico? Could it be because no other sovereign nation in the world allows illegal immigration to go unchecked? That other countries would deport them or sequester them into refugee camps? That other countries don't give automatic citizenship to the babies they hurry to give birth to for that purpose?

    I believe that minors should definitely not be separated from their parents. If the parents are deported, then their children should go with them regardless of their status.


    So tell me poche, what do you have to say to the immigrants who go through huge time, expense and trouble to immigrate legally while the others just waltz in unchecked? "Suckers" ?

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 01:47:11 PM »
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  • " Neither was involved with smuggling, nor contraband, nor lawbreaking of any other variety."

    Umm.. yes, they broke the law of a sovereign nation by crossing it's borders illegally. The author doesn't know much about them except how to use the story to promote his agenda. Maybe she's a nice lady, maybe she's some kind of criminal. We just don't know- and that's a big part of the problem.

    If they were so glad to escape Congo, why didn't they stay in the nearest country available to them instead of making a bee-line for the US? Why didn't they stay in Mexico? Could it be because no other sovereign nation in the world allows illegal immigration to go unchecked? That other countries would deport them or sequester them into refugee camps? That other countries don't give automatic citizenship to the babies they hurry to give birth to for that purpose?

    I believe that minors should definitely not be separated from their parents. If the parents are deported, then their children should go with them regardless of their status.


    So tell me poche, what do you have to say to the immigrants who go through huge time, expense and trouble to immigrate legally while the others just waltz in unchecked? "Suckers" ?
    100% agree
    :-X

    Offline poche

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #4 on: March 10, 2018, 03:43:07 AM »
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  • 100% agree
    :-X
    Others don't just "waltz in." They also take a huge risk because their status is never guaranteed as it would be if their situation were to be regularized. 


    Offline poche

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #5 on: March 10, 2018, 03:44:34 AM »
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  • A Facebook video of a woman being αrrєѕтed by immigration officers in front of her wailing children went viral on Thursday.
     According to Facebook user Judith Castro, who posted two videos showing the αrrєѕт on the social media website, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officers detained Perla Morales-Luna in National City, California, Thursday afternoon as she walked with her three daughters to pay her rent.
     One of the videos CBP agents stopped the family on the sidewalk and forcibly dragged Morales into a patrol vehicle. 
     
     Local news reports confirmed Morales' identity and the place of the αrrєѕт. Federal authorities said Morales had been targeted for allegedly being a part of a transnational drug-smuggling operation. Border Patrol spokesman Theron Francisco said she was being held on suspicion of being in the country illegally, according to the Los Angeles Times.
     
     
     The videos showed three CPB agents dragging Morales into a squad vehicle amid cries from her daughters to "let her go." By press time, the videos had more than 8.5 million views.
     
     Castro, one of Morales's daughter's teachers, later said she thought it was important to share the video, but even she couldn't sit through it.
     
     "Honestly I couldn’t watch the whole thing," Castro told NBC 7 in San Diego. "Just seeing a mom being approached by agents who are dressed in civilian clothing, with no badges to be seen, and just literally dragging the mom away into the border patrol truck."
     Immigration authorities have come under fire in recent weeks over what advocates call an uptick in αrrєѕтs of noncriminal heads of families.
     Most recently, the case of a Congolese mother seeking asylum separated at the border from her 7-year-old daughter as they tried to enter the country without proper authorization sparked outrage among immigration and civil rights advocates. On Tuesday, Immigration and Customs Enforcement released the mother from a detention center in San Diego. Her daughter, who was transported to a detention center in Chicago, has yet to be released.
     
     https://www.yahoo.com/news/watch-woman-d...10731.html


    What I would like to know is what arrangements were made toward the care of the children as their mother was being taken away? 

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #6 on: March 10, 2018, 01:23:51 PM »
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  • Others don't just "waltz in." They also take a huge risk because their status is never guaranteed as it would be if their situation were to be regularized.
    who cares?
    they break the law

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #7 on: March 10, 2018, 01:35:17 PM »
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  • People act as if moving to the United States is some kind of God-given right. I don't think so. There's nothing special about the United States, except maybe the people and the laws.

    See, for those who were born and raised in the United States, this country is all they have. It is their native country. Why can't the Congoese people fix up their own country, instead of all the common people emigrating to America? I know the rulers aren't the same as the common man, but still -- someone's got to rise up and fix the problem. The whole world can't move to the USA, and even if they did, they'd bring all their ethnic/tribal feuds with them and we'd have all the same problems over here.

    This lady was born and raised in the Congo. Even if she moved here, she would have her identity (Congo) and her new home. That's more than I and other native-born Americans have: we just have America. That's it. When this country is all you've ever known, THAT is your country. I'd like to know what other country I'm supposed to be comfortable or familiar with! I've never been anywhere else (except Dublin for 1 week).

    Besides, "Is America responsible for making right all the evils, injustices, and abuses in the world?" America is my country, but it's not God.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #8 on: March 10, 2018, 01:45:42 PM »
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  • Immigration is one of those lesser issues that causes people to vote Democratic, even though doing so encourages countless MORAL EVILS like Abortion, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, doctrine of Evolution, moral relativism, and taking away freedoms (free speech, guns, right to educate our children, etc.)

    But when I think about it, it's not just a question of choosing some lesser good and taking a huge evil with it. It's worse than that. Because there's nothing that says everyone has a right to come to America. That's ridiculous.

    Just for starters, anyone rabidly pro-Immigration is basically saying that the mostly European Americans that built America are superior to every other race -- even Asians. Because that is who built the America we see today. Not the people that have lived here for 30-40 years. One could say that as soon as these latest additions arrived, the decline began. When a country has been built up with infrastructure and wealth over 180 years, it takes more than 10 or 20 years to find yourself destitute and penniless. Decline takes time. We are in that decline right now.

    So whatever "good" America has today isn't thanks to the current residents, but the people who made it what it is (those from 1770 - 1950).

    Seriously, why does everyone want to move here? Can't they duplicate our success in other countries in the world? Or are they too lazy, or not "European" enough to have the virtues of being hard working, honest, and Christian? Does it require the Catholic Faith (or even the bastardized Protestant distortion of it) to believe in things like planning for the future, good hygiene, advancing our way of life, etc.? I really have to scratch my head.

    Are there any other countries where people are beating down the doors trying to get in?

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    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #9 on: March 10, 2018, 01:46:09 PM »
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  • People act as if moving to the United States is some kind of God-given right. I don't think so. There's nothing special about the United States, except maybe the people and the laws.

    See, for those who were born and raised in the United States, this country is all they have. It is their native country. Why can't the Congoese people fix up their own country, instead of all the common people emigrating to America? I know the rulers aren't the same as the common man, but still -- someone's got to rise up and fix the problem. The whole world can't move to the USA, and even if they did, they'd bring all their ethnic/tribal feuds with them and we'd have all the same problems over here.

    This lady was born and raised in the Congo. Even if she moved here, she would have her identity (Congo) and her new home. That's more than I and other native-born Americans have: we just have America. That's it. When this country is all you've ever known, THAT is your country. I'd like to know what other country I'm supposed to be comfortable or familiar with! I've never been anywhere else (except Dublin for 1 week).

    Besides, "Is America responsible for making right all the evils, injustices, and abuses in the world?" America is my country, but it's not God.
    yeh, for sure
    And besides, they break the law (I do not speak of those who seek asylum)
    I mean, most americans would not break into another country and then try to become... a member of that society, a citizen even... after violating the border laws...

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #10 on: March 10, 2018, 01:55:00 PM »
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  • Another point --

    I do have some sympathy for a Mexican legal immigrant who was born and raised in America (I choose Mexico for my example because I live in Texas, and Mexico is right there)
    The idea of sending him "back" anywhere is kind of ridiculous, if he lived here in America for 100% of his life.

    However, it must be admitted that this hypothetical man has a 2nd country he is very close to, at least in terms of his identity. He is 100% Mexican by blood. He would feel at home, at least in terms of the people, if he ever visited Mexico. If America ever collapsed or something, Mexico would be a logical 2nd choice for him, right?

    I, on the other hand, have no other such place anywhere in the world where I would feel at home. If I went to Ireland I'd feel too German. If I went to Germany I'd feel too Irish. And then there's that small % of Prussian and other misc. European in my ancestry.
    That's the problem with being in a country for generations -- it really becomes your country!
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #11 on: March 11, 2018, 04:37:54 AM »
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  • Another point --

    I do have some sympathy for a Mexican legal immigrant who was born and raised in America (I choose Mexico for my example because I live in Texas, and Mexico is right there)
    The idea of sending him "back" anywhere is kind of ridiculous, if he lived here in America for 100% of his life.

    However, it must be admitted that this hypothetical man has a 2nd country he is very close to, at least in terms of his identity. He is 100% Mexican by blood. He would feel at home, at least in terms of the people, if he ever visited Mexico. If America ever collapsed or something, Mexico would be a logical 2nd choice for him, right?

    I, on the other hand, have no other such place anywhere in the world where I would feel at home. If I went to Ireland I'd feel too German. If I went to Germany I'd feel too Irish. And then there's that small % of Prussian and other misc. European in my ancestry.
    That's the problem with being in a country for generations -- it really becomes your country!
    The person born in America of Mexican parentage would be an American citizen of Mexican descent, not an immigrant. There are many people whose family backgrounds predate the existence of the United States. That would make them indigenous peoples, not immigrants. In fact, compared to them the Anglos are the interlopers, not them.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #12 on: March 11, 2018, 09:19:36 AM »
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  • The person born in America of Mexican parentage would be an American citizen of Mexican descent, not an immigrant. There are many people whose family backgrounds predate the existence of the United States. That would make them indigenous peoples, not immigrants. In fact, compared to them the Anglos are the interlopers, not them.

    1. I stand corrected on the terminology. I should have said "son of immigrants".

    2. Regarding the indigenous peoples "the Anglos were the immigrants/invaders" canard, I disagree. That only applies to civilized countries. The United States took over a geographical area that had no civilizations; because none of the scattered people who lived there were civilized. There were no cities. Sure, some of the indians were more gentle, and they had a culture (tribal rituals, songs, language, false religion), but they were still savages, living in darkness and ignorance, living like animals, with no technology or advancement. In fact, every last one of the Indian tribes' cultures were against progress or change of any kind.

    The Indian "cultures" weren't really deserving of the name, and these "cultures" deserved to be destroyed and replaced with Catholic ones. Not all cultures are equally valuable or deserving of continued existence. That is blasphemy to the modern liberal multiculturalists, but so be it. No pagan culture has a right to be preserved. The whole world must be converted to the Catholic Faith, and any immoral habits, myths, lies, false religions, demonic rituals, etc. that stand in the way MUST BE DESTROYED and replaced.

    Read the accounts of the missionaries who tried to evangelize them, to get the real truth about the Indians. Some were brutal savages, but others converted to the Faith and became as fervent as the first Christians. But still, it was an improvement for Europeans to take over the areas and bring these Indians out of darkness into the civilized world. At least the Spanish and French who were Catholic. What the English did was more of a mixed bag. They did many evil things (smallpox blankets anyone?) but they did result in a huge, unified civilized country that Christians (Europeans) could immigrate to, and build a country with a Christian, hard work ethic (and ripe for evangelization by Catholic missionaries) that became the envy of the whole world.

    But also read about how the Indians lived. Their "living structures" were crude and often the air was thick with acrid campfire smoke due to inadequate ventilation. Medicine meant a trip to the local witch doctor, where the devil would be invoked for assistance. Oh, and they didn't eat the "whole buffalo". That is a modern myth created by the liberals and one-worlders. More like they wasted most of it! They weren't as eco-conscious as the liberals claim either. They didn't cause pollution like modern ƈhıną, but only because they didn't have the technology! Not doing something because YOU CAN'T isn't the same as not doing something because YOU CHOOSE NOT TO.

    The Puritans or English descendants (WASPs -- White Anglo Saxon Protestants) aren't what made America great -- it was all the Catholic immigrants from Catholic countries (mostly up until 1900) that really gave America its positive traits. The biggest exporters of such Catholics to America were Ireland, Germany, Italy, and Poland. But there were others of course.

    For a while, German rivaled English as the most-spoken language in America. And we have all heard of the Irish potato famine. Many Irish immigrated here during that time.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #13 on: March 11, 2018, 11:35:39 PM »
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  • 2. Regarding the indigenous peoples "the Anglos were the immigrants/invaders" canard, I disagree. That only applies to civilized countries. The United States took over a geographical area that had no civilizations; because none of the scattered people who lived there were civilized. There were no cities. Sure, some of the indians were more gentle, and they had a culture (tribal rituals, songs, language, false religion), but they were still savages, living in darkness and ignorance, living like animals, with no technology or advancement. In fact, every last one of the Indian tribes' cultures were against progress or change of any kind.



    The indigenous peoples of the American southwest were a predominantly Catholic people. I know that in the Protestant mentality that makes us an uncivilized gangster people, but I would think that the Cathinfo mentality would be a little different. 

    Offline poche

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    Re: Family Seperation
    « Reply #14 on: March 12, 2018, 02:14:50 AM »
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  • Read the accounts of the missionaries who tried to evangelize them, to get the real truth about the Indians. Some were brutal savages, but others converted to the Faith and became as fervent as the first Christians. But still, it was an improvement for Europeans to take over the areas and bring these Indians out of darkness into the civilized world. At least the Spanish and French who were Catholic. What the English did was more of a mixed bag. They did many evil things (smallpox blankets anyone?) but they did result in a huge, unified civilized country that Christians (Europeans) could immigrate to, and build a country with a Christian, hard work ethic (and ripe for evangelization by Catholic missionaries) that became the envy of the whole world.

    The Notre Dame archives has records of many requests from Indians from many parts of what is now the United States asking Catholic bishops for "black robes" (aka Catholic priests) to come and minister to them. Protestants would consider this an opportunity to lead tehm out of the darkness of Catholicism into the light of their version of civilization.
    The civilized country that was built was built on land that was stolen form the indigenous peoples.     


     

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