Read an Interview with Matthew, the owner of CathInfo

Author Topic: Family Separation  (Read 5352 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online poche

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14783
  • Reputation: +665/-2299
  • Gender: Male
Family Separation
« on: June 18, 2018, 04:37:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • A teenager at a US Border Patrol facility had to teach other children how to help change the diaper of a young girl who had been separated from family members.
     According to the Associated Press, a 16-year-old girl in a South Texas facility took care of a four-year-old girl she didn't know for at least three days when they were kept in the same chain-link cage together.
     The teenager told the story to Michelle Brane, director of migrant rights at the Women's Refugee Commission, who spent time at the facility on Friday.
     "She had to teach other kids in the cell to change her diaper," Brane said. Agents initially thought the four-year-old was younger, in part because she wasn't talking or communicating with anyone. As it turned out, the girl only spoke K'iche, a language indigenous to Guatemala, and not Spanish.
     "She was so traumatized that she wasn't talking," Brane told the Associated Press. "She was just curled up in a little ball."
     After an attorney began asking questions about the girl's situation, agents found the girl's aunt, who had been kept in a different part of the facility, and reunited the two. The facility houses 1,100 adults and children, but hundreds of children are reportedly kept apart from their parents or other family members.
     The Associated Press reported seeing one cage with 20 children inside.
     In April, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced a "zero tolerance" policy toward migrants crossing the US border illegally. Adults can now be tried as criminals for entering into the US illegally, causing them to lose custody of their children.
     Nearly 2,000 children have been taken from their parents since Sessions announced the new policy.
     Most children are sent to live with family members, but until then, they are largely housed in about 100 government-run centers, one of which limits kids to two hours of outdoor time a day.
     
     http://www.businessinsider.com/immigrati...ers-2018-6
     
     How can criminality be ascribed to a child in diapers? Why are the children not in foster care? Is this policy of gratuitous separation not a form of child abuse that is sanctioned by teh Trump administration?

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7188
    • Reputation: +2018/-195
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 06:27:20 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!1
  • This abuse was going on during Obama's administration too.  

    Obama deported Christians while he allowed non Christians in.   

    Obama had 8  years to fix the problem but immigrants were abused and exploited for political purposes.  

    Obama was busy promoting homosexuality in our schools. He wanted men to use ladies rooms  He went to Africa trying to force sodomy acceptance in exchange for food and electric.  

    And immigrants under Obama were also gender abused.  
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7188
    • Reputation: +2018/-195
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 07:02:03 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • And where is the President of Guatemala?  Why isn't anyone criticizing him?  Why isn't anyone talking about the American and European companies paying people unfair wages in Guatemala.      It shouldn't cost so money to come to USA to work or become citizens legally. 








    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Online JezusDeKoning

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2700
    • Reputation: +942/-1139
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 08:27:38 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It is true that they're leaving some of the world's most sordid, corrupt, gang-riddled and violent countries to come here. Two of the countries with the highest murder rates are in Central America; Honduras and El Salvador. Many of these people, if they return to their home countries, will likely die.

    At the same time, they committed a crime. Is it right that the parents be separated from their children? No. But illegal immigration is a crime and countries have to protect their borders. You can maybe let the decent men in after careful vetting. 

    The Latino immigrants are some of the hardest-working and most honest people I've ever met. I'm showing my bias as a product of them, but that's what I've noticed. Either way, it's not an ideal situation. If this shooting in the foot keeps going on from him, he might lose in 2020.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca

    Online poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 14783
    • Reputation: +665/-2299
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #4 on: June 18, 2018, 08:36:17 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • It is true that they're leaving some of the world's most sordid, corrupt, gang-riddled and violent countries to come here. Two of the countries with the highest murder rates are in Central America; Honduras and El Salvador. Many of these people, if they return to their home countries, will likely die.

    At the same time, they committed a crime. Is it right that the parents be separated from their children? No. But illegal immigration is a crime and countries have to protect their borders. You can maybe let the decent men in after careful vetting.

    The Latino immigrants are some of the hardest-working and most honest people I've ever met. I'm showing my bias as a product of them, but that's what I've noticed. Either way, it's not an ideal situation. If this shooting in the foot keeps going on from him, he might lose in 2020.
    When you take a person's child from them you become responsible for that child. Housing children in cages is child abuse. If you were to house your children in cages like that you would go to jail once you were found out. Leaving a child wearing diapers in hte primary care of a teenager does not constitute taking care of that child. Those children need to be in foster care. 


    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4426
    • Reputation: +2703/-1246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #5 on: June 18, 2018, 10:23:32 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Ignoring for a minute the large numbers of single men (many of whom are criminals) who are illegally coming into our country and who will crash into your car without insurance (causing everyone’s rates to go up), or steal, deal drugs, commit tax fraud, or worse...violent crimes.

    If we consider the families that are illegally entering our country, these people are in a bad situation even if we don’t lock them up.  So when INS agents put them in prison for VIOLATING THE LAW, it’s not our fault they were trying to escape a worse situation (like starvation in Venezuela or social chaos and 20% interest rates in Argentina.  Not to mention the drug crimes and murders that have been going on in Central America for decades).  The point is, these people are in a bad spot but it’s not because of the US.  Their home countries are uninhabitable but that doesn’t mean we “owe” them citizenship.  Mexico won’t help them (because their immigration laws are tough) and we’re the “evil” country?

    I’m not a fan of what these people are going through but the process must have order and we can’t let in anybody.  I think that Trump is doing 2 things by temporarily splitting up these families.  (And I do think the family splits are temporary).

    1) reminding these families that they must abide by US law when wanting to enter the country.  If they don’t, there will be consequences which will be painful.  If there are no consequences to crossing the border illegally then it will never stop and the US will cease to exist eventually.  If these families have a “dose of reality” then maybe those that don’t really need assylum will go elsewhere and then we can help those who truly need it.  Many people come to the US because they think they will get “free stuff” when they could’ve just as easily stayed where they were.  

    2) Trump/Sessions are putting pressure on the democrats to compromise on immigration.  The democrats want open borders, socialized immigration and limited govt activity.  Why?  Because this is how they get “new voters”.  Most of these people come from communistic/socialized countries so they are already infected with anti-US, anti-rule-of-law thinking. They will automatically vote democrat because the Democrats give them “free stuff”.  

    Secondly, open borders facilitate drug, child, and weapon trafficking which the “deep state” is involved in and many of the democratic (and republican) elites get kickbacks for helping to keep this activity going.  

    The rule of law and secure borders is mostly about keeping out drugs, and gangs rather than being “mean” to families.  Secure borders means stopping children and women who are abducted by these gang members and then sold all over the world.  These Slaves are in a much worse situation than families who are searching for a better life (when the one they have currently is acceptable).  These Slaves are used, abused, sold, raped, tortured and then killed.  It’s an epidemic. 

    Once borders are secure THEN we can properly vet and allow in good families and offer them a better life.  Right now, we need to worry about worse things.  Drugs, slavery and weapons trafficking are endangering American families, who should come first.  

    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1670
    • Reputation: +1381/-92
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #6 on: June 18, 2018, 10:31:36 AM »
  • Thanks!4
  • No Thanks!0
  • Easy answer: Only come to the US in the legal way, then there will be no risk of your children becoming separated from you. 

    Online poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 14783
    • Reputation: +665/-2299
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #7 on: June 18, 2018, 11:49:09 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • Ignoring for a minute the large numbers of single men (many of whom are criminals) who are illegally coming into our country and who will crash into your car without insurance (causing everyone’s rates to go up), or steal, deal drugs, commit tax fraud, or worse...violent crimes.

    If we consider the families that are illegally entering our country, these people are in a bad situation even if we don’t lock them up.  So when INS agents put them in prison for VIOLATING THE LAW, it’s not our fault they were trying to escape a worse situation (like starvation in Venezuela or social chaos and 20% interest rates in Argentina.  Not to mention the drug crimes and murders that have been going on in Central America for decades).  The point is, these people are in a bad spot but it’s not because of the US.  Their home countries are uninhabitable but that doesn’t mean we “owe” them citizenship.  Mexico won’t help them (because their immigration laws are tough) and we’re the “evil” country?

    I’m not a fan of what these people are going through but the process must have order and we can’t let in anybody.  I think that Trump is doing 2 things by temporarily splitting up these families.  (And I do think the family splits are temporary).

    1) reminding these families that they must abide by US law when wanting to enter the country.  If they don’t, there will be consequences which will be painful.  If there are no consequences to crossing the border illegally then it will never stop and the US will cease to exist eventually.  If these families have a “dose of reality” then maybe those that don’t really need assylum will go elsewhere and then we can help those who truly need it.  Many people come to the US because they think they will get “free stuff” when they could’ve just as easily stayed where they were.  

    2) Trump/Sessions are putting pressure on the democrats to compromise on immigration.  The democrats want open borders, socialized immigration and limited govt activity.  Why?  Because this is how they get “new voters”.  Most of these people come from communistic/socialized countries so they are already infected with anti-US, anti-rule-of-law thinking. They will automatically vote democrat because the Democrats give them “free stuff”.  

    Secondly, open borders facilitate drug, child, and weapon trafficking which the “deep state” is involved in and many of the democratic (and republican) elites get kickbacks for helping to keep this activity going.  

    The rule of law and secure borders is mostly about keeping out drugs, and gangs rather than being “mean” to families.  Secure borders means stopping children and women who are abducted by these gang members and then sold all over the world.  These Slaves are in a much worse situation than families who are searching for a better life (when the one they have currently is acceptable).  These Slaves are used, abused, sold, raped, tortured and then killed.  It’s an epidemic.

    Once borders are secure THEN we can properly vet and allow in good families and offer them a better life.  Right now, we need to worry about worse things.  Drugs, slavery and weapons trafficking are endangering American families, who should come first.  
    It is not just the family separations that I object it is the conditions in which the children are being kept. What criminality does a child in diapers have that it must be kept in a cage? Once you take a child from its parents then you become responsible for its well being. If you were to place your child in a cage in the way that these children are being treated you would be charged with child abuse. The judge would probably throw the book at you. What these agents are doing with these children would be considered criminal if anybody else were to do the same thing.        


    Offline Marlelar

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3475
    • Reputation: +1810/-231
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #8 on: June 18, 2018, 12:11:57 PM »
  • Thanks!4
  • No Thanks!0
  • When you take a person's child from them you become responsible for that child. Housing children in cages is child abuse. If you were to house your children in cages like that you would go to jail once you were found out. Leaving a child wearing diapers in hte primary care of a teenager does not constitute taking care of that child. Those children need to be in foster care.
    No, those children, along with their parents should be sent back from whence they came.  If their home country is in ruins then their men should be fighting to rebuild it to make it suitable, not running away.  What they lack, besides a functioning government, is male leadership and organization; all the free stuff in the world cannot make up for those shortcomings. 

    Offline Cantarella

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 7782
    • Reputation: +4568/-575
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #9 on: June 18, 2018, 04:04:48 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4497
    • Reputation: +3870/-339
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #10 on: June 18, 2018, 04:39:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It is not just the family separations that I object it is the conditions in which the children are being kept. What criminality does a child in diapers have that it must be kept in a cage? Once you take a child from its parents then you become responsible for its well being. If you were to place your child in a cage in the way that these children are being treated you would be charged with child abuse. The judge would probably throw the book at you. What these agents are doing with these children would be considered criminal if anybody else were to do the same thing.        
    Poche has a point.  If the parents do not want to be separated from their children, they should be given the option of returning back into Mexico.  If separation is required because the parent committed other crimes that should be prosecuted, the children should be returned to their country of origin so that thier own nation can take care of them.  


    Online JezusDeKoning

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2700
    • Reputation: +942/-1139
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #11 on: June 18, 2018, 05:02:14 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • This is the crux of the matter when it comes down to it. Yes, the majority of them are coming from parts of Latin America with the highest homicide rate in the world. Yes, the drug trade and rampant presence of street gangs is one of the many factors why northern Central America is disintegrating into war zone levels of violence, with thousands of homicides every year. 

    At the end of the day, though, they entered the country illegally. If they can be sent somewhere else without being shot to death, then send them somewhere else. America must focus on Americans first and domestic issues first. Though the word for "American" in their native Spanish ("americano") refers to someone from any point in the two continents, they are not Americans until they come here and come here legally.

    What's happening in Texas is sad with the kids if the media wants to put on that sort of veneer, but it's nothing new at all. The Obama administration wasn't soft on immigration in the least. This is only a news story, the media having a fit, solely because Donald Trump is president.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca

    Offline MMagdala

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 508
    • Reputation: +175/-48
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #12 on: June 18, 2018, 05:29:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • In the U.S.:

    There is not enough affordable housing for all of the besieged peoples of the many corrupt and dysfunctional Third World countries in the world.

    Not enough unskilled and low-skilled jobs that they can fill in this country, if all of them were to be given equal opportunity to enter...

    Not enough public assistance to compensate for the difference in what they can earn vs. the COL in the U.S., anywhere.

    And it is utterly unjust in Catholic moral theology to prefer one group of besieged peoples merely because of geographic proximity.  

    This is all even apart from their illegal entry.  

    If the U.S. is going to make exceptions on the basis of conditions in any particular country, it must do so universally.  Differentiated policies and practices based on common principles are or on their face unjust, and there is nothing in Catholic moral theology to support such preferences.


    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4426
    • Reputation: +2703/-1246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #13 on: June 18, 2018, 05:55:37 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    Poche has a point.  If the parents do not want to be separated from their children, they should be given the option of returning back into Mexico.  

    Most of them aren't from Mexico and they can't stay in Mexico because mexican immigration laws are tougher than ours.  You presume they didn't know about the possibility of separation before they got close to the border.  Maybe they were given the option to return where they came from and decided that a short-term prison stay (where they can get free food, clothes, medicine, a bed and a shower) is worth it, when the alternative is Venezuela where an apple costs $150,000 in inflated $ and people are starving and dying in hospitals.  Venezuela is a war zone right now and Mexico isn't helping and the media is silent on all of this.  


    Quote
    If separation is required because the parent committed other crimes that should be prosecuted, the children should be returned to their country of origin so that their own nation can take care of them.
    See above.  Sounds good in theory, but in practice, there's not an easy answer.

    Also, how does the US return a child, parent-free, back to Columbia?  Pay for a first-class airline ticket?  Have INS agents drive them back?  Many of these people are 1-2,000 miles from their original home.  They have no way back because they're broke and have no options.  It's a mess.  At least we're giving them food, shelter, medicine, clothing, etc in the detention centers.  That's more than they receive from their home countries and mexico combined.

    Trump/Sessions are doing the right thing (until a change in law can be passed in Congress).  Right now, we MUST help these people (as we are doing, by providing FREE shelter, food, clothing, medicine and showers) but we must also CREATE CONSEQUENCES and make them not want to come again.  We have to create an atmosphere of law so that people realize they can't take advantage of our charity.  These people need to realize that traveling 500-2,000 miles to the border will not get them any long-term solutions to their problem, so they must look elsewhere, or...go through the proper legal process for citizenship.  There are other options for these people.  God will provide.

    Online JezusDeKoning

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2700
    • Reputation: +942/-1139
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Family Separation
    « Reply #14 on: June 18, 2018, 05:59:41 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • It's a slap in the face to legal immigration, like many who took that next step. 

    There's steps out there to rectify it and become residents and citizens. Would God that they do that. But for right now, they're committing a crime.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16