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Offline Banezian

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Excellent new book released on political philosophy
« on: April 17, 2020, 03:44:55 PM »
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  • A new book has been released by the Traditional Dominican Fr. Thomas Crean O. P. It’s called “Integralism: A Manual of Political Philosophy” Probably the best work written on political philosophy in decades( certainly in this century) A good compliment to Archbishop Lefebvre’s work “They Have Uncrowned Him” I cant recommend this book enough for those who care seriously about political questions
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwjnkqb6pvDoAhX9mHIEHXcJArcQFjAAegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com/gp/product/on.com%2FI/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=on.com%2FI&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20 />
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9


    Offline Matto

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    Re: Excellent new book released on political philosophy
    « Reply #1 on: April 17, 2020, 04:44:59 PM »
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  • http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=23765.msg498793#new

    http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=23653.msg496793#msg496793

    https://catholicherald.co.uk/why-racism-is-a-heresy/?fbclid=IwAR14PewAq84KDK5QBEEu1MvJ9sQhZ2FXoeo03w9kcxIK2UVzXbhoZi0U8DM

    This book is mentioned. Just to ask, do you agree with Mr. Fimister's article in the third link, that racism is a heresy and superstition, saying that to believe races differ from each other in intellectual and moral qualities because of biology is superstition? What would BTNYC think of this? Not to judge a book I have not read, but it seems from this article as if one of the co-authors is a politically correct fool at least on this issue (or something else). So I would be surprised if such a man could co-author the best book on political philosophy in decades, unless the good from the book comes from Father Crean O.P.

    Which dogma does thinking Whites or Chinese or Jєωs are on average smarter than Blacks in part because of their genetic make-up deny?
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.


    Offline Matto

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    Re: Excellent new book released on political philosophy
    « Reply #2 on: April 17, 2020, 05:05:21 PM »
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  • I mean I know people generally are good on some issues, but not on all things.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Caraffa

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    Re: Excellent new book released on political philosophy
    « Reply #3 on: April 17, 2020, 05:12:32 PM »
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  • http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=23765.msg498793#new

    http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=23653.msg496793#msg496793

    https://catholicherald.co.uk/why-racism-is-a-heresy/?fbclid=IwAR14PewAq84KDK5QBEEu1MvJ9sQhZ2FXoeo03w9kcxIK2UVzXbhoZi0U8DM

    This book is mentioned. Just to ask, do you agree with Mr. Fimister's article in the third link, that racism is a heresy and superstition, saying that to believe races differ from each other in intellectual and moral qualities because of biology is superstition? What would BTNYC think of this? Not to judge a book I have not read, but it seems from this article as if one of the co-authors is a politically correct fool at least on this issue (or something else). So I would be surprised if such a man could co-author the best book on political philosophy in decades, unless the good from the book comes from Father Crean O.P.

    Which dogma does thinking Whites or Chinese or Jєωs are on average smarter than Blacks in part because of their genetic make-up deny?

    Modern day "Integralism" is a just discussion amongst dilettantes and cryptos. The old style Integrists weren't perfect but at least they understood the causality chain, namely Nature/Biology-> Culture-> Politics-> Economics. The neo-integralists don't are repackaged Manicheans. Their purpose is distract from the main issues at hand.
    Pray for me, always.

    Offline Banezian

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    Re: Excellent new book released on political philosophy
    « Reply #4 on: April 17, 2020, 06:47:57 PM »
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  • http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=23765.msg498793#new

    http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=23653.msg496793#msg496793

    https://catholicherald.co.uk/why-racism-is-a-heresy/?fbclid=IwAR14PewAq84KDK5QBEEu1MvJ9sQhZ2FXoeo03w9kcxIK2UVzXbhoZi0U8DM

    This book is mentioned. Just to ask, do you agree with Mr. Fimister's article in the third link, that racism is a heresy and superstition, saying that to believe races differ from each other in intellectual and moral qualities because of biology is superstition? What would BTNYC think of this? Not to judge a book I have not read, but it seems from this article as if one of the co-authors is a politically correct fool at least on this issue (or something else). So I would be surprised if such a man could co-author the best book on political philosophy in decades, unless the good from the book comes from Father Crean O.P.

    Which dogma does thinking Whites or Chinese or Jєωs are on average smarter than Blacks in part because of their genetic make-up deny?
    I haven’t read the article( and don’t care to) I agree with Dr. Charles Murray that there are biological/intellectual differences between races( broadly speaking) but people should not be mistreated because of these differences. For a nation to be of primarily one race is probably good, but racial segregation (like the kind which existed in some parts of America before the 60s) is evil. Race is not a substantial difference between men. 
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9


    Offline Matto

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    Re: Excellent new book released on political philosophy
    « Reply #5 on: April 17, 2020, 08:12:08 PM »
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  • I haven’t read the article( and don’t care to) I agree with Dr. Charles Murray that there are biological/intellectual differences between races( broadly speaking) but people should not be mistreated because of these differences. For a nation to be of primarily one race is probably good, but racial segregation (like the kind which existed in some parts of America before the 60s) is evil. Race is not a substantial difference between men.

    The problem I had with the article by the co-author is that unless I am misreading the article, which I could be, the writer seems to be arguing that such a belief that you expressed, and I see as reasonable, is a sin of superstition and even heresy, and such an argument seemed so ridiculous to me to the point where I wondered whether or not it was malicious and made me discount the book coming from such a person as co-author as the person on Suscipe Domine says he discounted it also.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline BTNYC

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    Re: Excellent new book released on political philosophy
    « Reply #6 on: April 17, 2020, 10:44:10 PM »
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  • http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=23765.msg498793#new

    http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=23653.msg496793#msg496793

    https://catholicherald.co.uk/why-racism-is-a-heresy/?fbclid=IwAR14PewAq84KDK5QBEEu1MvJ9sQhZ2FXoeo03w9kcxIK2UVzXbhoZi0U8DM

    This book is mentioned. Just to ask, do you agree with Mr. Fimister's article in the third link, that racism is a heresy and superstition, saying that to believe races differ from each other in intellectual and moral qualities because of biology is superstition? What would BTNYC think of this? Not to judge a book I have not read, but it seems from this article as if one of the co-authors is a politically correct fool at least on this issue (or something else). So I would be surprised if such a man could co-author the best book on political philosophy in decades, unless the good from the book comes from Father Crean O.P.

    Which dogma does thinking Whites or Chinese or Jєωs are on average smarter than Blacks in part because of their genetic make-up deny?
     
    Matto, I think your assessment of Fimister as a "politically correct fool" is pretty well spot-on. And your rhetorical question at the end also cuts to the heart of his asininely gratuitous assertion that "racism is a heresy" - what dogma do "racists" deny? Heresy is as serious a charge as it gets. Where is his proof?

    In lieu of proof his simply builds a strawman, affixes it to the stake and burns it as a heretic. According to him: 

    "Racism is the belief that the intellectual and moral qualities of human beings, and the differences in achievement and fortune between nations, result from biological descent. On this theory, some “races” are intrinsically intellectually and morally superior to others."


    Well, since the charge of heresy is presumably being levelled at those to whom such a charge would actually instill fear and repentance, namely Catholics, it would behoove us to ask a crucially pertinent  question: Who, among Catholics, actually believes that some races are intrinsically morally superior to others? What self-professed Catholic claims, or has ever claimed, that the Church's moral laws apply - or ought to be applied - differently race to race due to intrinsic superiorities and inferiorities arising from particular racial categories? I think even the most self-righteous "anti-racist" crusaders around here would have to admit that no such phenomenon exists among Catholics. 

    As long as he's attributing technically heretical (though non-existent) beliefs to gussy up a made-up Marxist bogeyman known as "racism" into something a Catholic needs to give a toss about, he might as well do likewise for "homophobia" and "transphobia." 

    It's easy enough: "Homophobia and Transphobia are heretical beliefs which posit that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ and transgendered persons are morally inferior in an intrinsic, and therefore immutable manner, and that any effort to evangelize to them or dissuade them from their evil lifestyles is therefore moot and all hope for their salvation is utterly and totally null." There. You heard it here first, folks. Homophobia and Transphobia are now heresies, just like Racism, no matter that no one on earth believes the things I've ascribed to them. They're superstitious heresies and you'd better examine your conscience perpetually to make sure you don't fall into these grievous errors.

    This moron goes on to say: 

    "People do not always realise that this teaching is also rooted in metaphysics. The Church has infallibly taught that each human being has an immortal soul. This intellectual soul is the “form of the body”. This means that at the most fundamental level every human being is the same regardless of race or sex....For the Christian, nobody is defined by their physical inheritance..."

    Now who's the heretic? The sexes are ontologically different, right down to the level of the soul. If not, what's this idiot's argument against ordination of women to the priesthood? "Nobody is defined by their physical inheritance." What does that nonsense even mean? What does he mean by using modernist, effeminate terminology like "defined by?" Is he a 16 year old girl with a Tumblr page? Again, as far as, say, eligibility for the priesthood goes, a man born without hands, or with severe mental retardation, certainly is "defined by (his) physical inheritance;" so is a man born without functioning reproductive organs - they're defined as unfit and ineligible for the sacraments of Holy Orders and Matrimony, respectively.

    Why does he - and anti-racist egalitarians like him - place such importance on "intellectual' superiority and inferiority? What about other kinds of superiorities? Like physical superiority? Sub-Saharan Africans dominate certain sports for a reason - they clearly possess certain kinds of physical prowess which are superior to those of other races. Or would he seriously suggest that an all-Eskimo basketball team would excel in the NBA if given the chance? No, it's only when we speak of differences of intelligence that people like him get their panties in a bunch. But why? 

    Talk to any dog breeder. Ask them if all breeds have "essentially the same" temperament, or intelligence, or social aptitudes? Of course not. But does it therefore follow that German Shepherds are any "more or less" dogs than Irish Setters are? Again, of course not. Nor should it be with humans, to whom God bestowed talents differently and unevenly, but appropriately for the environments in which He placed them. "B-but human beings aren't dogs! They have immortal souls!" cries the anti-racist. Well, see Fimister's heresy above about human souls being sexless carbon copies which he seems to imply merely inhabit physical bodies completely indifferently, like hermit crabs in shells. Isn't it Catholic catechesis 101 that a human person the union of an immortal soul with a physical body? The soul is higher than the physical body, but that doesn't render the physical body a meaningless vessel, no matter what this neo-gnostic egghead says.

    He's so fond of quoting Pope Pius XII ('cause he fought those mean ol' Nazees, ya know), why doesn't he examine what Pius XII said in his 1941 Allocution to the Roman Patiarchate and Nobility:

    "The nature of this great and mysterious thing that is heredity - the passing on through a bloodline, perpetuated from generation to generation, of a rich ensemble of material and spiritual assets, the continuity of a single physical and moral type from father to son, the tradition that unites members of one same family across the centuries - the true nature of this heredity can undoubtedly be distorted by materialistic theories. But one can, and must also, consider this reality enormously important in the fullness of its human and supernatural truth.

    One certainly cannot deny the existence of a material substratum in the transmission of hereditary characteristics; to be surprised at this one would have to forget the intimate union of our soul with our body, and in what great measure our most spiritual activities are themselves dependent upon our physical temperament. For this reason Christian morality never forgets to remind parents of the great responsibilities resting on their shoulders in this regard."


    Hear that, Fimister, you superstitious egalitarian neo-gnostic heretic? There is an "intimate union between soul and body," and "our most spiritual activities are dependent upon our physical temperament." What are the implications of that on subjects like miscegenation, multiculturalism, racial indifferentism and all the other Jєωιѕн Marxist programs you hold so near and dear to your heart? Here's a hint: nothing you'd be happy to ponder.

    This guy is another in a long line of Neocath "conservative" gatekeepers for the Novus Ordo. They give mealy-mouthed lipservice to the usual subjects for which accord with Catholic morality is, broadly speaking, permitted, just so long as the sacred cows of what John McCain lovingly called the Post-World-War-II Order are never questioned (i.e. Racism is evil; Hitler was Satan incarnate; the Jєωs are our elder Brothers; Race is a meaningless social construct; Diversity is Strength, etc.). 

    I bet he reads the account of the Tower of Babel and sees God as the villain of the story. 


    Offline trad123

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    Re: Excellent new book released on political philosophy
    « Reply #7 on: April 18, 2020, 12:00:10 AM »
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  • Where did Alan get his definition?

    It wasn't Pope Paul III

    https://www.papalencyclicals.net/paul03/p3subli.htm


    Quote
    The enemy of the human race, who opposes all good deeds in order to bring men to destruction, beholding and envying this, invented a means never before heard of, by which he might hinder the preaching of God’s word of Salvation to the people: he inspired his satellites who, to please him, have not hesitated to publish abroad that the Indians of the West and the South, and other people of whom We have recent knowledge should be treated as dumb brutes created for our service, pretending that they are incapable of receiving the Catholic Faith.

    "dumb brutes . . . incapable of receiving the Catholic faith"

    THAT is what is condemned.

    One can cut out the beginning of Alan's definition, it's unneeded:


    Quote
    Differences in achievement and fortune between nations result from biological descent  (condemned so says Alan)

    Can Alan list his source? No need to answer.


    I will say, I cannot find the word 'racism' in the book. Nor 'biology' or 'biological'. The argument does not appear to have been pursued in the book.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline trad123

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    Re: Excellent new book released on political philosophy
    « Reply #8 on: April 18, 2020, 12:10:09 AM »
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  • Just a quick look. I did like how this was put:

    Chapter 1: Societies and the perfect society.

    (. . .)

    reason for society

    (. . .)


    Quote
    What, then, are we to make of Aristotle’s dictum that he who is no part of a city is either a beast or a god27; that is, as St Thomas glosses it, either bestial or else a ‘divine man’?28 Some vicious disposition may cause a person to shun company, but as with the other vices, this does not destroy the fundamental inclination of nature. Again, the Christian hermit who seeks solitude also retains this fundamental inclination: he renounces society not as if isolation were a good in itself, or a necessary concomitant of perfection, but for ascetic reasons, so that he may avoid the distractions by which the weakness of our fallen nature impedes the growth of charity. Yet he remains within the communion of saints, and he uses the solitude of a few years as an instrument to incorporate himself more firmly within that sempiternal society.


    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Banezian

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    Re: Excellent new book released on political philosophy
    « Reply #9 on: April 18, 2020, 02:13:55 PM »
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  • I didn’t start the thread so that you guys could argue about a topic which has nothing to do with the book. A major problem with this forum is the way threads are derailed and pushed off topic. Maybe read the book if you can and then give your thoughts
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Banezian

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    Re: Excellent new book released on political philosophy
    « Reply #10 on: April 18, 2020, 03:40:37 PM »
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  • Matto, I think your assessment of Fimister as a "politically correct fool" is pretty well spot-on. And your rhetorical question at the end also cuts to the heart of his asininely gratuitous assertion that "racism is a heresy" - what dogma do "racists" deny? Heresy is as serious a charge as it gets. Where is his proof?

    In lieu of proof his simply builds a strawman, affixes it to the stake and burns it as a heretic. According to him:

    "Racism is the belief that the intellectual and moral qualities of human beings, and the differences in achievement and fortune between nations, result from biological descent. On this theory, some “races” are intrinsically intellectually and morally superior to others."


    Well, since the charge of heresy is presumably being levelled at those to whom such a charge would actually instill fear and repentance, namely Catholics, it would behoove us to ask a crucially pertinent  question: Who, among Catholics, actually believes that some races are intrinsically morally superior to others? What self-professed Catholic claims, or has ever claimed, that the Church's moral laws apply - or ought to be applied - differently race to race due to intrinsic superiorities and inferiorities arising from particular racial categories? I think even the most self-righteous "anti-racist" crusaders around here would have to admit that no such phenomenon exists among Catholics.

    As long as he's attributing technically heretical (though non-existent) beliefs to gussy up a made-up Marxist bogeyman known as "racism" into something a Catholic needs to give a toss about, he might as well do likewise for "homophobia" and "transphobia."

    It's easy enough: "Homophobia and Transphobia are heretical beliefs which posit that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ and transgendered persons are morally inferior in an intrinsic, and therefore immutable manner, and that any effort to evangelize to them or dissuade them from their evil lifestyles is therefore moot and all hope for their salvation is utterly and totally null." There. You heard it here first, folks. Homophobia and Transphobia are now heresies, just like Racism, no matter that no one on earth believes the things I've ascribed to them. They're superstitious heresies and you'd better examine your conscience perpetually to make sure you don't fall into these grievous errors.

    This moron goes on to say:

    "People do not always realise that this teaching is also rooted in metaphysics. The Church has infallibly taught that each human being has an immortal soul. This intellectual soul is the “form of the body”. This means that at the most fundamental level every human being is the same regardless of race or sex....For the Christian, nobody is defined by their physical inheritance..."

    Now who's the heretic? The sexes are ontologically different, right down to the level of the soul. If not, what's this idiot's argument against ordination of women to the priesthood? "Nobody is defined by their physical inheritance." What does that nonsense even mean? What does he mean by using modernist, effeminate terminology like "defined by?" Is he a 16 year old girl with a Tumblr page? Again, as far as, say, eligibility for the priesthood goes, a man born without hands, or with severe mental retardation, certainly is "defined by (his) physical inheritance;" so is a man born without functioning reproductive organs - they're defined as unfit and ineligible for the sacraments of Holy Orders and Matrimony, respectively.

    Why does he - and anti-racist egalitarians like him - place such importance on "intellectual' superiority and inferiority? What about other kinds of superiorities? Like physical superiority? Sub-Saharan Africans dominate certain sports for a reason - they clearly possess certain kinds of physical prowess which are superior to those of other races. Or would he seriously suggest that an all-Eskimo basketball team would excel in the NBA if given the chance? No, it's only when we speak of differences of intelligence that people like him get their panties in a bunch. But why?

    Talk to any dog breeder. Ask them if all breeds have "essentially the same" temperament, or intelligence, or social aptitudes? Of course not. But does it therefore follow that German Shepherds are any "more or less" dogs than Irish Setters are? Again, of course not. Nor should it be with humans, to whom God bestowed talents differently and unevenly, but appropriately for the environments in which He placed them. "B-but human beings aren't dogs! They have immortal souls!" cries the anti-racist. Well, see Fimister's heresy above about human souls being sexless carbon copies which he seems to imply merely inhabit physical bodies completely indifferently, like hermit crabs in shells. Isn't it Catholic catechesis 101 that a human person the union of an immortal soul with a physical body? The soul is higher than the physical body, but that doesn't render the physical body a meaningless vessel, no matter what this neo-gnostic egghead says.

    He's so fond of quoting Pope Pius XII ('cause he fought those mean ol' Nazees, ya know), why doesn't he examine what Pius XII said in his 1941 Allocution to the Roman Patiarchate and Nobility:

    "The nature of this great and mysterious thing that is heredity - the passing on through a bloodline, perpetuated from generation to generation, of a rich ensemble of material and spiritual assets, the continuity of a single physical and moral type from father to son, the tradition that unites members of one same family across the centuries - the true nature of this heredity can undoubtedly be distorted by materialistic theories. But one can, and must also, consider this reality enormously important in the fullness of its human and supernatural truth.

    One certainly cannot deny the existence of a material substratum in the transmission of hereditary characteristics; to be surprised at this one would have to forget the intimate union of our soul with our body, and in what great measure our most spiritual activities are themselves dependent upon our physical temperament. For this reason Christian morality never forgets to remind parents of the great responsibilities resting on their shoulders in this regard."


    Hear that, Fimister, you superstitious egalitarian neo-gnostic heretic? There is an "intimate union between soul and body," and "our most spiritual activities are dependent upon our physical temperament." What are the implications of that on subjects like miscegenation, multiculturalism, racial indifferentism and all the other Jєωιѕн Marxist programs you hold so near and dear to your heart? Here's a hint: nothing you'd be happy to ponder.

    This guy is another in a long line of Neocath "conservative" gatekeepers for the Novus Ordo. They give mealy-mouthed lipservice to the usual subjects for which accord with Catholic morality is, broadly speaking, permitted, just so long as the sacred cows of what John McCain lovingly called the Post-World-War-II Order are never questioned (i.e. Racism is evil; Hitler was Satan incarnate; the Jєωs are our elder Brothers; Race is a meaningless social construct; Diversity is Strength, etc.).

    I bet he reads the account of the Tower of Babel and sees God as the villain of the story.

    This is an excellent article on the racial questions which outlines the Catholic position 
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwi7sM686vLoAhX5hHIEHckUBMUQFjAAegQIBBAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.catholicapologetics.info%2Fmodernproblems%2Fcurrenterrors%2Frace.htm&usg=AOvVaw3JkRCLdz8J2zP_EOTkcW2r
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9


    Offline Geremia

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    Fr. Crean vs. Dignitatis Humanæ
    « Reply #11 on: May 08, 2020, 12:33:03 PM »
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  • Have you read Fr. Crean, O.P.'s article critical of Vatican II's Dignitatis Humanæ?

    His Integralism book seems very good.
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre