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Author Topic: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?  (Read 2210 times)

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Offline graceseeker

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do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
« on: October 11, 2017, 05:44:04 PM »
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  • for some reason i was never crazy about JP II

    I read a book on JP I, although it didn't go into details about his personal life and etc... and yet what i read led me to believe he was a saint or close to it.

    Pius XII deprived himself of comforts in order to feel solidarity w/ the suffering Jєωs during WWII

    he slept on a hard wood floor, i have heard and other austerities

    John XXIII does not seem saintly although I admit I don't know much aabout him either. I need to get to a Catholic bookstore soon


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #1 on: October 11, 2017, 06:05:40 PM »
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  • Yes, you need to read ....

    You can read on internet.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #2 on: October 11, 2017, 10:04:44 PM »
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  • "Even more [God] is like our mother..." 

    Yeah, John Paul I would not be a saint. There is quite a bit on him, despite being possibly the pope for 33 days.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #3 on: October 12, 2017, 12:32:19 AM »
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  • No to all: 
    1. Conciliars have no excuse, and no authority to canonize anyone.
     1. Conciliar "popes" esp. can't plead ignorance; save external evidence to the contrary, they died as conciliar "popes". No saint is resident of Hell.
    2. Pope Pius XII may be in Heaven, and I hope and pray that he is, but there were and are none to canonize him.

    Preemption: Association with is not membership of. (Yeah yeah, unless you "join" an association shut up...)
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #4 on: October 12, 2017, 01:45:14 AM »
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  • No to all:
    1. Conciliars have no excuse, and no authority to canonize anyone.
     1. Conciliar "popes" esp. can't plead ignorance; save external evidence to the contrary, they died as conciliar "popes". No saint is resident of Hell.
    2. Pope Pius XII may be in Heaven, and I hope and pray that he is, but there were and are none to canonize him.
    Dante is more relevant today.
    Indeed, most likely, the bishops (conciliar popes) are the lampposts in hell.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 03:39:12 PM »
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  • Yes, you need to read ....

    You can read on internet.
    I don't have internet
    but I will not remain in ignorance for long one way or the other...

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 03:40:33 PM »
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  • "Even more [God] is like our mother..."

    Yeah, John Paul I would not be a saint. There is quite a bit on him, despite being possibly the pope for 33 days.
    only God knows
    but its possible he was not anticahtolic enough for those around him. I think Cardinal Villot may have killed him... why he wasn't not suspected is beyond me
    Markinkus didn't look too good but Villot... he had a motive also

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #7 on: October 13, 2017, 03:42:11 PM »
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  • "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 06:02:41 PM »
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  • I don't have internet
    but I will not remain in ignorance for long one way or the other...
    You have to have (access to) internet to use CathInfo.
    .
    You have questioned the sanctity ofseveral personages on two different threads which you started.
    .
    The role of pope carries with it no guarantee of sanctity and you will find that any true saint popes we already saintly before they were burdened with the duties and priveleges of the papacy.
    .
    May I suggest that some of the time that you spent on CathInfo you could study the lives of the saints - maybe read up on a saint a day so you come to understand what is sanctity, and of course increase your knowlege of the faith.
    .
    God bless you.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 04:33:32 AM »
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  • Graceseeker, there are some good sites about the saints. One which is run by a member here is saintsworks which might be a help.

    Here is a wise quote which came up when I opened up, which may be helpful: 
    .


    'When harmed, insulted or persecuted by someone, do not think of the present but wait for the future, and you will find he has brought you much good, not only in this life but also in the life to come.'
    St. Mark the Ascetic

    http://saintsworks.net/AboutSaintsWorks.html
    There are links there that will lead you saints quotes, saints books and others useful information and knowledge. Give it a try.

    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline poche

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #10 on: October 17, 2017, 02:23:25 AM »
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  •  Pope Francis is considering whether he will make Pope Pius XII a saint, in the same way that he approved the cause of John XXIII.
      
     A source who works at the Vatican’s Congregation for Causes of Saints, who asked for anonymity, told CNA July 25 that “just as Pope Francis moved ahead with John XXIII’s canonization, he is considering the same thing for Pius XII.”
    According to the normal procedures, Pius XII would be beatified once a miracle attributed to his intercession is officially certified by a team of doctors and recognized by a commission of cardinals.
    But if Pope Francis decides to go ahead without a miracle, he could “even canonize him with the formula of scientia certa (certainty in knowledge), thereby jumping over the step of beatification,” the source said.
    “Only the Pope is able to do it, and he will, if he wants to.”
    Pope Francis is very interested in Pius XII because “he considers him ‘a great,’ in the same way as John XXIII is, even if for different reasons,” the source explained.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-thinking-about-declaring-pius-xii-a-saint


    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 11:01:06 AM »
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  • Graceseeker, there are some good sites about the saints. One which is run by a member here is saintsworks which might be a help.

    Here is a wise quote which came up when I opened up, which may be helpful:
    .


    'When harmed, insulted or persecuted by someone, do not think of the present but wait for the future, and you will find he has brought you much good, not only in this life but also in the life to come.'
    St. Mark the Ascetic

    http://saintsworks.net/AboutSaintsWorks.html
    There are links there that will lead you saints quotes, saints books and others useful information and knowledge. Give it a try.


    that's a good quote.
    I notice that, looking back @ my life, I was always doing way better when I read Catholic books every day, whtehr on the saints or related stuff..
    Thanks

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #12 on: October 18, 2017, 11:02:35 AM »
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  • Pope Francis is considering whether he will make Pope Pius XII a saint, in the same way that he approved the cause of John XXIII.
      
     A source who works at the Vatican’s Congregation for Causes of Saints, who asked for anonymity, told CNA July 25 that “just as Pope Francis moved ahead with John XXIII’s canonization, he is considering the same thing for Pius XII.”
    According to the normal procedures, Pius XII would be beatified once a miracle attributed to his intercession is officially certified by a team of doctors and recognized by a commission of cardinals.
    But if Pope Francis decides to go ahead without a miracle, he could “even canonize him with the formula of scientia certa (certainty in knowledge), thereby jumping over the step of beatification,” the source said.
    “Only the Pope is able to do it, and he will, if he wants to.”
    Pope Francis is very interested in Pius XII because “he considers him ‘a great,’ in the same way as John XXIII is, even if for different reasons,” the source explained.

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-francis-thinking-about-declaring-pius-xii-a-saint
    that is very strange b/c I heard somewhere that John was already canonized!
    and I don't think there should be any skipping over of a miracle.
    I am wondering if NO popes can really canonized anyone?

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #13 on: October 18, 2017, 12:25:34 PM »
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  • ...
    I am wondering if NO popes can really canonized anyone?
    Look, are they vicars of Christ or aren't they? 

    Feel like I'm taking crazy pills any more...
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline graceseeker

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    Re: do you think JP II is a saint? Y not JP I??? Pius XII?
    « Reply #14 on: October 21, 2017, 11:47:31 AM »
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  • a priest who is ordained w/ no intention of living the l ife of a priest

    is not a priest. 

    that is my opinion. I don't know what the Church officially teaches. But it would be like me joining the Dem party just to infiltrate or spy or whatever. Does that make me a Dem?