Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Politics and World Leaders => Topic started by: MrYeZe on September 03, 2014, 05:19:18 PM
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Hi, I've been surfing on this forum for a while now, and it seems that, as traditional Catholics would be, many people are in favor of capital punishment for heretics and apostates within the territories of a formal Catholic State. My question is basic:
If you are in favor of this, then how can you condemn Islamic states for, essentially, doing the same thing? I know you could argue that they're doing it in the name of the wrong God, but then, that would be an error of fact, not of morals, and yet many people act like it is, indeed, a moral atrocity, as with the situation with the Sudanese woman in Sudan.
I could go either way on this issue, I'd just like to know what your responses are.
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In this realm, error has no rights and mistake of fact should not be deemed exculpatory.
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In one place it's a crime to be a murderer, and they're executed.
In another, it's a crime to be innocent, and they're executed.
Quite a difference!
Besides, sin is sin.
Worshiping the true God and a false God are not things that can be weighed as substitutable matters of fact, with all else remaining in place, or the latter simply a matter of mistake. It is a matter of morals. It's a matter of grace and vice.
God is always moving men to take the good action, and working against the evil. Evil is not simply a matter of mistaken judgement, as if it were abstract mathematical matters, the spiritual is always at work with men choosing sides according to their predilection for good or evil.
While it is enough to consider the worship of God or a devil in and of itself, the truth is the one or the other brings along with a vast swath of consequences affecting the good and evil, the welfare of all men. No sin is isolated and without consequence for the rest of mankind, however much people might wish it were so.
We are desensitized to how great an evil sin is, but quite sensitized to things on a natural level.
These aren't really comparable situations, Christian executions and Moslem ones.
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In one place it's a crime to be a murderer, and they're executed.
In another, it's a crime to be innocent, and they're executed.
Quite a difference!
Ah...yeah. I forgot, the Sudanese woman wasn't 'actually' guilty of apostasy, thanks for reminding me.
Anyway, I'm just saying that if they truly think Allah is the one true god, then, technically, their intentions would not be evil in executing those who apostatize and spread heresy within the territories of their states. It wouldn't be comparable to the other actions of Muslims, that clearly 'aren't' done with good intentions, like the Moorish invasion of Spain, the Ottoman invasions and forced conversions on Christendom, ect. ect.
Catholics, and indeed, all people with good intentions, do not convert through unprovoked war.
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In one place it's a crime to be a murderer, and they're executed.
In another, it's a crime to be innocent, and they're executed.
Quite a difference!
Ah...yeah. I forgot, the Sudanese woman wasn't 'actually' guilty of apostasy, thanks for reminding me.
Anyway, I'm just saying that if they truly think Allah is the one true god, then, technically, their intentions would not be evil in executing those who apostatize and spread heresy within the territories of their states. It wouldn't be comparable to the other actions of Muslims, that clearly 'aren't' done with good intentions, like the Moorish invasion of Spain, the Ottoman invasions and forced conversions on Christendom, ect. ect.
Catholics, and indeed, all people with good intentions, do not convert through unprovoked war.
Intention is subjective. It is unknowable to us and is for God alone to judge.
What we can judge is what is objectively known: Namely, that Islam is a false sect, ergo objectively speaking, everything thing they do in observance of their religion - every prayer, every prostration, every fast - is objectively evil and is an objective act of False Worship.
This is in no way comparable to, say, the decrees of St Pius V that heretics and sodomites be put to death. This was a just judgment in every sense - It was carried out by the Head of the One True Church, therefore by the highest rightful authority on earth, and it was carried out for the protection of souls from the worst dangers to public faith and morals, therefore the outcome was objectively just and good.
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Hi, I've been surfing on this forum for a while now, and it seems that, as traditional Catholics would be, many people are in favor of capital punishment for heretics and apostates within the territories of a formal Catholic State. My question is basic:
If you are in favor of this, then how can you condemn Islamic states for, essentially, doing the same thing? I know you could argue that they're doing it in the name of the wrong God, but then, that would be an error of fact, not of morals, and yet many people act like it is, indeed, a moral atrocity, as with the situation with the Sudanese woman in Sudan.
I could go either way on this issue, I'd just like to know what your responses are.
Islam is a false, man-made religion. It has absolutely no right to exist. Ditto for every non-Catholic "sect," whether "Christian" or not.