Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Politics and World Leaders => Topic started by: Thed0ctor on February 19, 2023, 12:50:43 PM
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I saw this article: https://www.dailywire.com/news/los-angeles-bishop-shot-and-killed-in-his-home?utm_campaign=dw_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=housefile&utm_content=member and it got me wondering whether bishops and priests can defend themselves with lethal force. I think it would be good for them to against a threat but I recall vaguely hearing something about it not being proper for the hands that consecrate the eucharist to be the same ones that take a life or something like that. Can't remember where I heard that.
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https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/summa-on-self-defense/msg797567/#msg797567
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Our Lord told the Apostles to buy a sword, which, apparently they already had 2 swords, Our Lord approved.....
Luke 22:34 And he said: I say to thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, till thou thrice deniest that thou knowest me. And he said to them: [35] When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, did you want anything?
[36] But they said: Nothing. Then said he unto them: But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a scrip; and he that hath not, let him sell his coat, and buy a sword. [37] For I say to you, that this that is written must yet be fulfilled in me: And with the wicked was he reckoned. For the things concerning me have an end. [38] But they said: Lord, behold here are two swords. And he said to them, It is enough... [50]And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
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As long as it is not liberated theology.
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“Clerics shall entirely abstain from all those things that are indecent to their state; they shall not engage in indecorous arts; they shall abstain from gambling games with risks of money; they shall not carry arms, except when there is just cause for fearing; hunting should not be indulged, and [then] never with clamor; taverns and similar places should not be entered without necessity or another just cause approved by the local Ordinary.” - Canon 138, 1917 Code
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“Clerics shall entirely abstain from all those things that are indecent to their state; they shall not engage in indecorous arts; they shall abstain from gambling games with risks of money; they shall not carry arms, except when there is just cause for fearing; hunting should not be indulged, and [then] never with clamor; taverns and similar places should not be entered without necessity or another just cause approved by the local Ordinary.” - Canon 138, 1917 Code
That's more about unbecoming activity. It's considered generally unbecoming for a priest to walk around, say, with a 6-shooter on his belt. But given the bolded above, I think it would be fine to carry one for self defense or to keep weapons in one's home for self-defense, and possibly even conceal carry (since the issue here is what's unbecoming). But if a priest were attacked, of course he would have the right to self defense.
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“Clerics shall entirely abstain from all those things that are indecent to their state; they shall not engage in indecorous arts; they shall abstain from gambling games with risks of money; they shall not carry arms, except when there is just cause for fearing; hunting should not be indulged, and [then] never with clamor; taverns and similar places should not be entered without necessity or another just cause approved by the local Ordinary.” - Canon 138, 1917 Code
Every person has the natural-law right to self-defense, regardless of their state in life.
I am assuming by "not carry[ing] arms", this refers to open- or concealed-carry in the course of everyday life when there is no foreseen need for self-defense. It seems that a priest would be able to engage in shooting practice, as at a gun range, simply as a hobby. The only thing I've ever shot, aside from a target, was a severely wounded bird in my backyard, to put it out of its misery, and that was with a high-powered .22 air rifle. (BTW, I am a layman.) I think our HOA would frown on firearms.
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I can't beleive this is even a question.
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Funny . Our sermon today mentioned this . The priests that were defended by the Chisteros could not use guns . If they did they were barred from saying Mass . Also priests that did take up arms and were killed could not be considered for Sainthood because of their use of guns.
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Funny . Our sermon today mentioned this . The priests that were defended by the Chisteros could not use guns . If they did they were barred from saying Mass . Also priests that did take up arms and were killed could not be considered for Sainthood because of their use of guns.
Well, I think there's a difference between being an armed combatant and a simple case of self-defense. I can certainly see it as being incongruous with the priesthood to take up arms in battle.
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Well, I think there's a difference between being an armed combatant and a simple case of self-defense. I can certainly see it as being incongruous with the priesthood to take up arms in battle.
No doubt. Keep in mind, as well, that the purpose of guns is not to kill people, or even to kill animals for that matter. The purpose of guns is to make holes in things. Seen this way, the only difference between a gun, and a drill, or a hole punch (such as you would use for paper), or an awl, or an apple corer... you get the idea... is the method of delivery, the force of delivery, and in the case of higher-powered weapons, the strong likelihood that the "hole" thus created will be made with such force and speed, that it will destroy the thing in which the hole is made. When you shoot a creature, strictly speaking, you are making a hole in that creature. Beauticians who pierce women's ears do the same thing.
This may smack of the jesuitical reasoning found in the apocryphal story of the man who asked the SJ "may I smoke while I am praying?", to which the priest replied "look at it this way, may you pray while you are smoking?", but I use this from time to time, to counter people who, even if implicitly (and this wouldn't apply to anyone here, I'm sure), have this kind of Manichaean objection to guns as things evil in themselves, or at least things that have no purpose other than to do mayhem.
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We have a priest in the family and he said his bishop forbade them to own firearms. So they have an arsenal of knives and other bladed weapons.
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No doubt. Keep in mind, as well, that the purpose of guns is not to kill people, or even to kill animals for that matter. The purpose of guns is to make holes in things.
Let's refine this. The purpose of a gun in the hands of a good man is to DETER the use of a gun in the hands of a bad man intending to make holes in PEOPLE.
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We have a priest in the family and he said his bishop forbade them to own firearms. So they have an arsenal of knives and other bladed weapons.
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This is Novus Ordo, obviously?
But yes, priests can defend themselves with guns (https://www.ccwatershed.org/2016/07/02/revd-fr-adrian-fortescue-1874-1923/).
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Clerics have been prohibited from hunting, in both the Fourth Lateran Council and the Council of Trent.
I’d thought the reason was because of the inappropriateness of an altar Christus shedding blood (and therefore a principle possibly applicable to this thread), but I haven’t time to search the commentaries. Perhaps another more concerned could follow up that lead.
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Let's refine this. The purpose of a gun in the hands of a good man is to DETER the use of a gun in the hands of a bad man intending to make holes in PEOPLE.
That is one purpose. But I once needed to puncture holes in the bottom of a plastic bucket that I was going to use as a planter, and a few shots with my .22 air rifle (which can be just as deadly as a .22LR firearm, same or greater velocity, up close it packs just as much punch) did the trick, no drill required, done cleanly in seconds, and great fun on top of that.
And any man who has ever been a teenage boy knows that there is a joy in shooting a can of soda that has either (a) been allowed to get warm or (b) has been taken straight from the refrigerator cold, that is hard to put into words. You want to buy cheap no-name soda for that, no use wasting money shooting name brands that cost more.