Nevertheless, I fail to see why Trump would even WANT to oppose the Jєωιѕн establishment.

As I said earlier:

Trump and the Jews are on the same page. Living for this world, living for pleasure, wealth and power. Don't forget that the тαℓмυdic Jews in power -- the ones pulling the strings behind the scenes and working towards the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr -- are largely SECULAR. They have no religion. They live for themselves, their race, and for this world. Just like Donald Trump.

Why would Trump do something good for Catholics, even accidentally? However he went about fighting for a new world -- or even succeeding in achieving it -- he would be the first one in trouble, along with all the Jews he vanquished.

Is he going to vanquish pleasure in favor of mortification? He's in trouble.
Vanquish avarice in favor of justice, poverty, living simply, and spiritual goods? He's in trouble.
Is he going to give more power to the people? He, the biggest power seeker of all, would be in trouble.

You can't vanquish the devil's program -- pleasure, wealth and power -- without vanquishing Trump himself in the process.

That's why it's ILLOGICAL to hope for any kind of benefit or change from a President Trump.

You claim he's not part of the establishment, but fundamentally he is -- there are only two sides (God and Satan) and Trump is firmly ensconced in the latter camp. Pleasure (divorcing your wife to marry a supermodel who posed in the nude, pushing for smaller swimsuits and taller heels in the Beauty Pageant you bought), wealth, and power are the goals and aims of the devil, not God.

Trump stands for love of self, not love of God. Trust in self, not trust in God. Lies, not truth. Pride, not humility. Pleasure, not mortification. Avarice, not poverty. Anger, not patience. Contempt of God, not contempt of self. This is the platform of vice, the platform of the devil, which is shared by those in the so-called "establishment" you rightfully revile.

At best, Trump "fighting" the establishment would be like two hoodlums fighting in a bad neighborhood: bad guy vs. bad guy, and whichever one wins it's not going to help any of the good people in the neighborhood. What does an old grandma or grandpa care which drug lord gets to be master of the street drug sales? Whichever drug kingpin prevails, it doesn't have much impact on their daily life.

Any other distinction ultimately doesn't matter: Two party vs. independent, establishment vs. outside the establishment, or self-funded vs. PAC-funded. Satan doesn't fight Satan. If they are ultimately on the same side, they're on the same side PERIOD.

Patricius:

Yes, but there is still a major difference: The Establishment is a structural form of evil, whereas Trump's flaws and sins are personal weaknesses. With God's grace, which He doesn't refuse to good willing State leaders (who receive their authority from Him), it is possible for an individual to convert. But it is impossible for an evil organisation to convert.

I agree totally.  And included in that "Establishment," we must include wayward Fellay-led trad groups like the SSPX.  They have become a "structural form of evil too," in a few short years.

Yes, but is there good cause for hope from an unrepentant public sinner?

That is the real issue, and the real question here.

Would Catholics in the past rejoice when a wicked prince ascended the throne, on the hopes that he would have an ex miraculo (miraculous) conversion? I don't think so.

My point is that we can hope for an ex miraculo conversion from Ted Cruz as much as we can hope for one from Donald Trump. When you're talking ex miraculo conversions, anything is possible, and ANYONE is a candidate.

Up to the present day, Donald Trump has shown about as much disposition to God's grace as Ted Cruz, and to be honest, I'd have to say he's shown LESS.

And no, being beholden to the Establishment isn't an issue. Once a person converts, he makes new friends and breaks old bonds with his sinful past life. The real lynchpin is that ex miraculo conversion -- everything else falls into place after that.

Quote from: hollingsworth

Matthew:

Quote

Up to the present day, Donald Trump has shown about as much disposition to God's grace as Ted Cruz, and to be honest, I'd have to say he's shown LESS.

One of three persons will probably become the next president of the U.S.  The two you mention do not show much of a disposition to Gods grace.  The third, I think you will agree, shows even less of a disposition than the other two.  So I would have to conclude that happy days are not ahead for America.  

Yes, but do we need to wait for somebody that he converts beforehand? Or that he gives greater signs of goodness than the others? Given that all candidates are heretics and sinners, does that mean we cannot vote? History is full of rulers that were public sinners. Some of them, for purely secular reasons, did some good to the Church, for instance Mussolini. If there was a great public sinner, it was Mussolini! He lived in adultery with Clara Petacci, he killed/imprisoned his opponents. But, because he was free from bondage to the Establishment, he was also able to sign the 1929 Concordat with the Church. (He also crushed the Free Masonry).

I am not saying Trump is Mussolini. But Trump does have some good ideas on immigration and Islam and said he was against abortion and would de-fund PP. He will also be strong in foreign policy. No Benghazi tragedy with him! You have to see beyond the braggadoccio, which he himself doesn't take seriously, and he knows his supporters know that.

So let us not rent our garments and wait for Mr. Perfect.

The Moral Obligation of Voting, Rev. Titus Cranny, The Catholic University of America Press, 1952, pg 93

In practical life it is often difficult to determine whether a particular candidate is worthy or unworthy because there seems little upon which to judge accurately, especially in local or municipal elections. It does not follow that every Catholic is necessarily the best man for office and that every non-Catholic is not; nor that every Catholic will promote the interests of the common good of the state of religion and that the non-Catholic will not. Even if a man is of sterling character in his private life, he will not by necessity prove competent in public office. Sometimes too, as St. Robert Bellarmine pointed out in his De laicis [175] the so-called evil rulers may do more good than harm, as Saul and Solomon.

In regards to the best of the bad, I will assume that Putin sits in a pretty good position to judge whom would be the best to work with in battling the "Waremongers."  Don't remember the exact quote from Putin, but it was something like "I can work with Trump."  IMO, Putin knows our common enemies.

Just my opinion.

I think you might have that backwards. Here is what Putin said in response to a question about Trump.

“He is a very flamboyant man, very talented, no doubt about that. But it’s not our business to judge his merits, it’s up to the voters of the United States," Putin told reporters.

I believe it was Trump who postured that they could work well together.

materdominici - Putin did respond to Trump's "working together/getting along" statement, and  he said something along the lines of "of course we welcome it".

Yes, exactly. It's a very minor point, but Putin's willingness to work together was not reserved for Trump in particular. He was expressing the idea that working with the US rather than against it would "of course be welcomed".

ADD: Here's the quote:
"[Trump] says that he wants to move to another level relations, a deeper level of relations with Russia," Putin said. "How can we not welcome that? Of course, we welcome it.”

P.s. I don't believe for a second that Putin is 'against' the establishment.  Hes just a different side of the global coin.  As the democrats fight the republicans here in the US, so the east fights the west, in global politics.  Theres always fights, theres always debates, but the revolution against God and towards global govt never stops.  Why?  Because its a charade!  Wake up people!