Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Politics and World Leaders => Topic started by: Charles on May 01, 2011, 10:08:57 PM
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Check the news
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Things are heating up Charles.
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Still or again?
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Still or again?
It happens every so often. :laugh1:
What's with the live Whitehouse statement? Supposed to have happened at 10:30...it would have been my first time watching Obama.
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Over shadowing the news of JPII's . . . . . big day!
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Still or again?
It happens every so often. :laugh1:
What's with the live Whitehouse statement? Supposed to have happened at 10:30...it would have been my first time watching Obama.
Isn't it convenient that it happens on Obama's watch?
Geraldo Riveria is on Fox News saying High security alert around the world due to Muslims perhaps getting rowdy.
But he made a faux paus saying, "Obama is dead" then did a smooth recovery. lol.
As usual, "It is a dangerous time." :detective:
Do not watch Obama speak. He reportedley uses hynposis techniques. :roll-laugh1:
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check out the headline at drudgereport.
:laugh1:
Why am I laughing? I just don't know.
If fox news is telling us so, I guess it is a celebratory event. {winky icon}
Geraldo, "Its a catalyst for further terrorst activity".
:sign-surrender: (fαℓѕє fℓαg waving)
Their mideast war is progressing along well for them.
It's certainly good news for Obama.
Here's the prez.... Excuse, me.
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We need someone to post up the photos proving that Obama is Bin Laden!
A bunch of people are holding a vigil of sorts outside the Whitehouse.
It's the anti John Paul II or something.
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Obama says,
"AT MY DIRECTION" U.S. carried out operations against Bin Laden.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/05/01/obama_at_my_direction_us_carried_out_operation_against_bin_laden.html
warning: wear sunglasses if you watch video.
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Isn't it convenient that it happens on Obama's watch?
Just watch how the liberal media ascribes to Blowbama what may be described as the fruit of the hard work and effort the intelligence community made to fight terrorism and catch and execute Bin Laden. And this was the kid who campaigned against the previous administration's efforts to fight terrorism. I'm was never a big fan of President Bush, but his administration may have saved the United States from things far worse than we could have ever imagined, and perhaps it was its defense policies and mechanisms that have accomplished that for which Barack will take credit during next year's campaign.
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There is no great significance in this, nor are there good reasons to put one's faith in the government to tell us what has happened or is happening. This is, in reality, a distraction from the important things that are happening now.
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Newsflash: Osama's been dead for years. This is the biggest load of hogwash -- but it's the mainstream media, so it's par for the course.
All I'd like to know is: Why are they killing off "Emmanuel Goldstein" now? How does that help their plans? What stage of the game are we moving into now?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Goldstein
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For some, timing is everything.
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Perhaps they had to kill off bin Laden now so that al-Qaeda can be our friends again...?
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Newsflash: Osama's been dead for years. This is the biggest load of hogwash -- but it's the mainstream media, so it's par for the course.
All I'd like to know is: Why are they killing off "Emmanuel Goldstein" now? How does that help their plans? What stage of the game are we moving into now?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Goldstein
Preparing for a :sign-surrender:.
Then next stop, Syria and Iran.
They are going into full court press.
That's just my histrionic take on it.
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All I'd like to know is: Why are they killing off "Emmanuel Goldstein" now? How does that help their plans? What stage of the game are we moving into now?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Goldstein
Sorcery?
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There is no great significance in this, nor are there good reasons to put one's faith in the government to tell us what has happened or is happening. This is, in reality, a distraction from the important things that are happening now.
The wedding or the birth certificate or the zionists hand in the pot of sspx?
just askin'.
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A co-worker (ex-marine) text'd me the news that he was dead... my response: "He's not dead he's vacationing in morocco or somewhere like that!"
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A co-worker (ex-marine) text'd me the news that he was dead... my response:
"He's not dead he's vacationing in morocco or somewhere like that!"
- Let me add that I believe it too....
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When I first heard it on fox they were saying (Greta said it) that they have had his body for weeks and DNA confirmations. Then in obama's six millionth speech he said "today".
I had to go to the large tinfoil site to see what they were saying and sure enough an anonymous coward had started a thread about the discrepancy.
Now they are saying that the Islamic authorities are holding his body for proper Islamic burial preparations.
Now, look at this:
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/05/01/reports-bin-laden-killed-a-week-ago-by-us-missile-confirmed-tonight/
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:sign-surrender: Hey everyone look over here! Yes thats right, OVER HERE and not at what we don't want you to see.
Just a distraction and smoke screen to keep the sheeple on edge and keep the "terror" suspense.
NWO: "We do what we like in the name of the war on Terror, even kill your grandma!"
Sheeple: "Well if its in the name of the war on Terror, fill your boots!"
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I think Matthew has a point, Bin Laden has probably been dead for years. The reason I think so is because if he were alive would he really be stupid enough to send the US audio and video tapes saying "You can't catch me, you can't catch me!". Sadam hid when troops were looking for him and nobody knew where the heck he was for a while. I think it would have been the same with Bin Laden.
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This is about as believable as saying that Padre Pio was actually in his grave when they opened it.
NOT AT ALL.
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(Reuters) – A blast went off in a mosque in a police compound in Pakistan’s northwestern town of Charsadda on Monday, killing at least three people and wounding three policemen.
“The blast was inside the mosque,” police official Zain Khan told Reuters by telephone from Charsadda. It was not immediately clear whether the blast was linked to the killing of Osama bin Laden
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:whistleblower: BS! :whistleblower:
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/breakingosama-bin-laden-dead-us-reportedly-has-his-body_05012011
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osama_dead.php
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I imagine the rest of the world is having a ball as they see how the brain-dead sheeple swallow this nonsense.
Because this lie follows so quickly upon the BC nonsense, they should rename this week National Kewl-aid Overdose Week.
"Now, for the Two Minutes' Hate..."
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http://mantiqaltayr.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/americans-are-dumb-asses/
FWIW, it is not really a question of being dumb, or dumber than average. It is a question of heavy-duty brainwashing via the MSM, our 'educational' system, etc.
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Shouldn't you guys start believing that he's alive now that conventional wisdom states that he's dead ?!... Probably just a matter of time.
Anyhow, I have come to the conclusion that pseudo-reasoning such as the one exhibited here and other echo chambers on the Internet are in fact quite normal. It's all about reward and/or lack of punishment.
Indeed, those that think they can fly are punished, very badly. Their beliefs don't catch on. At the other end of the spectrum, all those that believe alternate versions of reality, through sites like this one, well, they get friends and a feeling of community and support.
There is no fighting this, and that thought actually brings me a great calm. So I wish you all a serene farewell.
Enjoy the rest of your lives.
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Give me a break. I guess they're retiring this particular boogeyman, who had a longer run than Dracula and Freddy Kreuger combined.
Something not many talk about is the Saddam Hussein execution video. I've never seen anything more blatantly phony. Like they're really going to hand him over to some makeshift lynch mob! Then they film it all on a shaky camera as if that's going to make it seem more real. Madison Ave. did a poor job on that one.
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Shouldn't you guys start believing that he's alive now that conventional wisdom states that he's dead ?!...
It is not a question of conventional wisdom, etc., but hard evidence. In this case, there is ZERO evidence to support the recent claim. In fact, they are supposedly getting rid of it in the ocean while the place his death allegedly occurred is, conveniently, burning to the ground.
Enjoy the rest of your lives.
You, too, amigo...
FWIW...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-photo-fake?CMP=twt_fd
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Give me a break. I guess they're retiring this particular boogeyman, who had a longer run than Dracula and Freddy Kreuger combined.
raoul, i respectfully disagree. dracula story has been around for over a century, and kreuger since mid-90's, so i would say that your statement, though meaning well, is a bit of exaggeration.
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:rahrah:
Goodbye Vandeler. You never had anything actually decent to contribute anyway.
We won't miss you here!
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I think he'd like AQ better since the people there think the NWO is just a big laugh.
Anyway, I don't like how these ignortant people are cheering in the streets. They've been fooled by our government, first of all. No telling how long Bin Laden as been dead. And it's a sin to cheer over a person's death, even if they are an evil person.
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The cheering American hordes are probably computer generated. Why bother celebrating now, isn't Osama killed every two years or so? The funniest part for me are the articles saying that Al Qaida No. 2 has been killed. This must have happened two dozen times by now. Of course, when you kill one No. 2, another No. 2 arises to take his place.
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You guys ever think the NWO actually puts the real story out there once in a while to throw off those who automatically and immediately think everything they put out there is hogwash? It would be the perfect plan! Actually tell the truth and the conspiracy theorists automatically think it is a lie and disbelieve it! Food for thought... :tinfoil:
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You guys ever think the NWO actually puts the real story out there once in a while to throw off those who automatically and immediately think everything they put out there is hogwash? It would be the perfect plan! Actually tell the truth and the conspiracy theorists automatically think it is a lie and disbelieve it! Food for thought... :tinfoil:
How can you trust a government that doesn't really give a flip what the American people want? Most Americans made it quite clear that they didn't want the health care bill and Obama passed it anyway. You'd just prefer to keep your head in the sand. And this isn't a real story. Bin Laden I'm sure has been dead for years. He wasn't even the "mastermind" behind 9/11.
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Yes, Stevus, I believe there are certain false cօռspιʀαcιҽs that are put out there.
One of the devil's lures is to take those who are waking up out of the "Matrix" and corner them into a sort of paranoid, negative, conpiracy-obsessed mindset. These people make the existence of cօռspιʀαcιҽs, which they call "the truth," their sole religion. Alex Jones, David Icke and the like are the destructive media entities who mop up this sub-section of humanity.
But if you don't believe in Christ, like Icke, what difference does it make if a bunch of old politicians congregate in Northern California and burn effigies underneath a giant owl? What do they have to offer that is better than the giant owl? Usually some vague mumbo-jumbo about liberation from slavery, maybe even, in the case of David Icke, liberation from the "reptiles," and other sci-fi-meets-the-American Revolution-inflected hogwash.
Though I have the reputation as a conspiracy obsessive, I'd like it to be noted that I never became concerned with ( a ) "Plumes of radiation" from Fukushima reaching America ( b ) The swine flu vaccine ( c ) The BP pipeline incident.
These are what I believe to be true cօռspιʀαcιҽs: ( a ) The h0Ɩ0cαųst ( b ) The 20th century World Wars in general, along with the elimination of the Catholic kings ( c ) Vatican II ( d ) The moon landings ( e ) Evolution ( f ) 9/11 and Osama, etc.
As far as the Fed and the banking system, I don't know if I'd call that a conspiracy so much as foolish short-term greed that made a lot of people rich, but is going to ruin their successors -- not that the designers of this ridiculous financial system cared about that. A lot of what is happening is really based on greed and lust and pride ( it's all connected, get the big job to make the money to get access to women ), rather than people consciously doing evil in order to enthrone Satan or whatever.
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You guys ever think the NWO actually puts the real story out there once in a while to throw off those who automatically and immediately think everything they put out there is hogwash?
Of course they do. In this case, Bin Laden is, in fact, dead -- but he has been dead for years.
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Though I have the reputation as a conspiracy obsessive, I'd like it to be noted that I never became concerned with ( a ) "Plumes of radiation" from Fukushima reaching America ( b ) The swine flu vaccine ( c ) The BP pipeline incident.
So noted...although you are wrong, in a way and to a degree, on all three counts.
Notable radiation has already reached the US -- and will continue to do so. The swine flu vaccine was exposed by a European employee of the manufacturer who happened to do an extra test, finding that a MASSIVE amount was clearly and intentionally tainted in a way that would have done incalculable damage. BP and the gov't clearly colluded to cover up the severity of the problem, so it is undeniable that there was conspiratorial behavior on SOME level. Many BP whistleblowers have died. Why?
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The cheering American hordes are probably computer generated.
Unlikely. They are just kewl-aided to the max...
It is just 'reality' within the 1984-Brave-New-World-Fraudvillian Matrix...
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gladius_veritatis said:
So noted...although you are wrong, in a way and to a degree, on all three counts.
It wouldn't be the first time... But I don't think so :cool:
On the subject of planted, pseudo-cօռspιʀαcιҽs, I was just cleaning out a closet with tons of my dad's old books ( I'm selling the house, as I've said many times ) and came across All the President's Men.
Watergate! There is the classic "conspiracy behind a conspiracy." People were made to believe that Nixon was spying on his rivals and that this was a huge scandal. As if our party system isn't rigged anyway, and as if anyone really has the choice who is President. It's sort of like complaining about the policy of the Israel government vis-a-vis a certain violent action, when the real conspiracy is the existence of what shouldn't exist, this same Israeli government, in the first place.
So many ills come from people not asking themselves the right questions, and therefore being unable to see the big picture. The result is they get bogged down in useless manufactured controversies. Osama Bin Laden being dead or alive is one of them. Who cares? All we need to know is that America is utterly corrupt as is the U.N. and that to maintain profit they go into third-world countries and destabilize the governments in the name of "democracy." If they unearth one vengeance-minded Musulman named Bin Laden or a whole horde of them, what's the difference? The result is the same -- they have kicked over the hornet's nest.
Whenever it seems like a conspiracy has been averted or a scandal uncovered by the mainstream press, it's almost always in order to push some subliminal message, in the case of Watergate, that our government is usually fair and and has integrity. Nixon spying on his opponents went too far but everyone else is squeaky-clean :wink:
But my way of figuring out cօռspιʀαcιҽs is to see everything through a Catholic lens, rather than a "truther" lens because Catholicism IS the truth. Catholicism is what's being waged war upon ultimately. This is why I often state, to deafening silence, that the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr is not in the future but in the past, the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr began after World War I and involves the elimination of the Catholic governments and the installation of a universal "peace-making" organization like the U.N., which in a way is a sort of anti-Church and which Vatican II is merely a puling, pathetic vassal of ( listen to their language ).
Sure, the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr could be further perfected under Anti-Christ, nevertheless, we're already in it.
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Some of my conspiracy theories might seem a little strange. For instance, I strongly believe, along with Michael Hoffman, that many of these events are ritualized. I'd go farther and call them symbolic boasts of the devil.
John F. Kennedy's assassination, for instance. Many believe it was politically motivated, that he was going to end the Fed and so they had to get rid of him. He wasn't going to end jack, though, Presidents are nothing but puppets. However, Hoffman is right that there is a "killing of the king" motif going on there. It is also notable that he was the only Catholic president, or nominal Catholic which is all that really matters. A Catholic president i.e. king = a symbolic stand-in for Christ to be eliminated publicly.
Jack the Ripper, the Moon Landings, 9/11 and the death of Princess Diana also bear all the marks of occult rituals. If JFK was a boast of Satan about killing off Jesus, Princess Diana was most likely a sort of symbolic stand-in for the Virgin Mary or perhaps the Church itself. The occult nature of that one is not even hidden, she even died in a tunnel which in the occult stands for spiritual transfiguration, Orpheus and Eurydice, all these themes the occultists love to play with.
This sounds too crazy to believe, yet one thing you have to know about the devil is that he is the ape of God, and just as God set up a Church with RITUALS, the devil stages his own rituals, often through the media and through the arts, that sort of reflect his plans and schemes in a dream-like subliminal way, almost as if he's trying to immerse people in his sick mind.
Texe Marrs, though a Protestant, pointed this out about the space program. Apollo, a representation of Satan, is rescued in the Apollo 13 staged ritual; while Challenger NUMBER SEVEN, representing God and with a teacher inside representing Christ, is blown up. Likewise, Building NUMBER SEVEN was blown-up during 9/11. While Catholics don't play with numbers in this way, the devil does, and he convinces his dupes there is some significance to these moronic games.
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Just to add more to my windbaggery, things like the JFK killing and 9/11 and the moon landings are meant to look fake, there are deliberate holes in the official stories. This is what Hoffman calls "revelation of the method." This is meant to create psychological trauma among the populace, because when they know that something is wrong, and then go back to ignoring it out of cowardice or human respect, the devil has their minds and souls just a bit more tightly in his grip.
What is the devil's main goal? To make people displeasing to God. Well, do you think God enjoys willfully ignorant, cowardly people who flee the truth in order to pop Viagra, stuff their faces and drive Mercedes-Benzes?
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Here's my thoughts on some conspiracy theories I have yet to touch up on.
The BP gulf oil spill was intentional. There are several things that make this quite clear. About two weeks before the oil spill, BP sold all of its stock. Now that's rather interesting. Something else is that it has already been proven that the oil isn't really gone. They're using a substance that only breaks it down so small that you can't even see it. This apparently wipes out the loop current and affects the jet stream, causing crazy weather along the east coast (and southeast).
I'm not 100% certain that the swine flu vaccines were dangerous, but considering the average vaccine contains a bunch of junk in it, I wouldn't be surprised. These vaccines can cause Autism, cancer, and other diseases. What the government refuses to tell us is that Vitamin D3 works 10x better than any vaccine they throw out at us.
And while we're on the subject, the swine flu was lab-created. There are about 1300 germ labs in the United States (look it up if you don't believe me). These labs are where this diseases come from. Not just the swine flu, but the regular flu, lime disease, AIDS, and West Nile virus all come from here. The main one is located in Plum Island up north near New York City (and stevus, you can look that up on Wikipedia). Pretty soon they'll be moving it to either Kansas or Nebraska (I think it's Kansas). That will be a disaster waiting to happen. Think of how many tornadoes move through there during the spring, summer, and early fall months. If one hits there, those germs will get spread everywhere.
Bottom line is this: No one can escape the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr. Until God intervenes and puts an end to it, everyone will be forced to accept the NWO whether they like it or not. These are more than just "conspiracy theories". It's time the for the sheeple to wake up.
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Just to add more to my windbaggery, things like the JFK killing and 9/11 and the moon landings are meant to look fake, there are deliberate holes in the official stories. This is what Hoffman calls "revelation of the method." This is meant to create psychological trauma among the populace, because when they know that something is wrong, and then go back to ignoring it out of cowardice or human respect, the devil has their minds and souls just a bit more tightly in his grip.
What is the devil's main goal? To make people displeasing to God. Well, do you think God enjoys willfully ignorant, cowardly people who flee the truth in order to pop Viagra, stuff their faces and drive Mercedes-Benzes?
But these "holes" designed by the satanic ritualists can be discerned by reason alone, by men who are already deceived by Satan, many to a very large degree. This is not a Catholic interpretation, but rather a preternatural interpretation of history that imposes a rubric and then seizes upon self-serving evidence. On the contrary, a Catholic interpretation of history is based on the fundamental truth that there are only two Kingdoms on earth, one is the Kingdom of God, to which good Catholics belong, the other is the Kingdom of Satan, to which all others belong. Inflicting "psychological trauma" on fellow members of the Kingdom of Satan doesn't square with a Catholic conception of history.
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It wouldn't be the first time... But I don't think so...
FWIW, I mentioned some of the undeniably conspiratorial aspects, none of which did you actually address/debunk. No biggie...
Are you honestly telling me you do not even think the BP disaster involved post-facto collusion?
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I think we have to define the term "conspiratorial" first.
The cօռspιʀαcιҽs I've pointed out have a long-range goal, are part of the mystery of iniquity, are part of a campaign of deception. That is why I don't classify the creation of the Fed as part of a conspiracy. A greedy, stupid, short-sighted decision is not a conspiracy. But there's a fine line, since the Fed and its promotion of runaway debt was a crucial element of what some call the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, and what I think in the future will simply be known as the Americanized ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic Republics, victims of Mystery Babylon.
Now that I think about it more closely, what strike me as "cօռspιʀαcιҽs" are the revelation-of-the-method ritualistic things, where the world buys into this giant con that succeeds due to its sheer brazenness; the "Big Lie" kind of event.
BP has nothing to do with that, even less with Fukushima. If there is some collusion or some greed involved in the BP situation, there isn't anything Satanic or nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr-y about it, from what I can tell. Maybe there were some palms greased, things weren't inspected like they should have been, greed won the day, but this is not what I consider a conspiracy.
With the particles of radioactive dust floating around the world, that also wouldn't be a conspiracy, it would be an opinion about the aftermath of a natural disaster. I'm aware I was the one who first classified it as a conspiracy, probably confusing the alarmist rhetoric of certain conspiracy-theorists with cօռspιʀαcιҽs themselves.
The swine flu vaccine was exposed by a European employee of the manufacturer who happened to do an extra test, finding that a MASSIVE amount was clearly and intentionally tainted in a way that would have done incalculable damage.
That is hearsay from one person, or from one report on the Internet. Yet far more than one scientist has said that there are chemical imbalances in peoples' brains that justify anti-depressants, something that is manifestly false. There is all sorts of disinfo out there about so many things. I don't have the proof of much, just my gut and my intellect, hopefully guided by the Holy Ghost, as you have yours. Certain things ring true and others don't.
Chemtrails, the government poisoning people and building prison camps, I am deaf to all of this, I think it's a red herring for the "truthers" to deal with. The spiritual poison meted out by the education system, the media and the doctors is far scarier to me than Chemtrails. The body is more resilient than people give it credit for.
I think it has become clear that, in the chaos that's coming, there will be no way to organize any kind of gulag system. I think lots of these "cօռspιʀαcιҽs" are feints to get people to worry about their bodies rather than their souls. Hence the Alex Jones crowd who bray constantly about "freedom" while often being atheists.
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Caminus said:
But these "holes" designed by the satanic ritualists can be discerned by reason alone, by men who are already deceived by Satan, many to a very large degree. This is not a Catholic interpretation, but rather a preternatural interpretation of history that imposes a rubric and then seizes upon self-serving evidence.
As I've said before, reason is not at loggerheads with faith, though your posts seem to insinuate otherwise.
A 9/11 "truther" is correct about 9/11, but he is myopic compared to a Catholic who has fit this event into a larger picture. Likewise, such a Catholic is myopic compared to God, we will never know every detail about everything that's going on, and there is room for friendly disagreements about non-dogmatic matters.
But the point is, the 9/11 "truther" is telling the truth about 9/11. The problem is that knowing 9/11 was a snow job is not THE truth. It's just one historical fact among many.
On the contrary, a Catholic interpretation of history is based on the fundamental truth that there are only two Kingdoms on earth, one is the Kingdom of God, to which good Catholics belong, the other is the Kingdom of Satan, to which all others belong.
That's nice. And your point is?
Inflicting "psychological trauma" on fellow members of the Kingdom of Satan doesn't square with a Catholic conception of history.
So Satan doesn't deceive people in order to keep them part of his kingdom? I think it is your view that doesn't square with a Catholic conception of history, as you implicitly deny, like StevusMagnus, the mystery of iniquity.
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Also, Caminus, I explained the reason for the psychological trauma inflicted by Satan. By denying the truth about our leaders, about our countries, about the anti-Catholic trend of the world, people become, in a way, COMPLICIT in this anti-Catholic trend. Instead of soldiers of Christ, they act like soft-bellied wimps who worry about their picket fences and their lives of comfort.
If the devil's job, as I said, and as I'm sure you don't disagree, is to win souls for hell by making humanity displeasing to God, don't you think this is one way he'd go about it? Make people lovers of lies, in deep denial, soft and only concerned with themselves and their material well-being? That is the whole history of the second half of the 20th century, this lost generation ( generally speaking ) or series of generations of the Apostasy.
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One of the scariest aspects of the end of the Apostasy, for me, is to see how few people get it even now. Almost everyone agrees we're heading for an economic meltdown, but go ahead, read blog after blog, comment section after comment section of newspapers the world round. You will see countless armchair economists who know what should have been done financially, who will inveigh against Keynesian economics and say we should have Austrian economics, or who opine that it is immigration / bureacracies / government handouts / unrestricted banksters and corporations that are killing the economy ( it's really all of the above )... But the number of people who trace our problems back to the root, to a rebellion against God? They are few and far between, to say the least. And if you do find one, they tend to be a Protestant.
Even when the money is about to disappear, that's all people are thinking about -- money.
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Just to add more to my windbaggery, things like the JFK killing and 9/11 and the moon landings are meant to look fake, there are deliberate holes in the official stories. This is what Hoffman calls "revelation of the method." This is meant to create psychological trauma among the populace, because when they know that something is wrong, and then go back to ignoring it out of cowardice or human respect, the devil has their minds and souls just a bit more tightly in his grip.
What is the devil's main goal? To make people displeasing to God. Well, do you think God enjoys willfully ignorant, cowardly people who flee the truth in order to pop Viagra, stuff their faces and drive Mercedes-Benzes?
As I've said before, reason is not at loggerheads with faith, though your posts seem to insinuate otherwise.
My point was simply that the evidence can be discerned by natural reason alone. In other words, the possession of divine faith is not necessary in order to "decipher" yours or Hoffman's view of history. It is a clever interpretation that appeals to the occult. It has nothing to do with the Catholic understanding of history precisely because discerning these facts have nothing to do divine faith, not even remotely. An analogous situation regards abortion. A man can discern that abortion is abhorrent without possessing divine faith. He bases this judgment upon the principles of the natural law.
The fideism that you seem to think you detect in my posts is unfounded, injurious inference. As I've pointed out before, contingent singulars, concrete historical events for example, pertain to the practical intellect. Reason unaided by faith, or that philosophy which aids the faith deals in necessary truths according to the proper object of the speculative intellect. You are confounding these two objects of reason and thus implicitly claiming that secular events serve as a motive of credibility for divine revelation. It is a ridiculous and ignorant assertion.
A 9/11 "truther" is correct about 9/11, but he is myopic compared to a Catholic who has fit this event into a larger picture. Likewise, such a Catholic is myopic compared to God, we will never know every detail about everything that's going on, and there is room for friendly disagreements about non-dogmatic matters.
A 9/11 truther may suspect conspiracy and rightly so. But it does not follow that he is anywhere nearer to discovering the true meaning of history, for in reality, he serves another facet of the Kingdom of Satan. It's like the extreme liberal being denounces by the moderate liberal. They are both blind leading or denouncing the blind. Discerning the moral actions of men has nothing whatever to do with understanding reality, except insofar as one sees all as so many varying evils that happen within the City of Man or the Devil. A large, national conspiracy does not differ in species than a man who conspires to cheat on his wife. But you would never claim the knowledge of the existence of the latter would hold the key to discerning all of history. Therein lies your fallacy.
But the point is, the 9/11 "truther" is telling the truth about 9/11. The problem is that knowing 9/11 was a snow job is not THE truth. It's just one historical fact among many.
It's one historical fact among millions and millions. Knowledge of even all of them combined will never serve to lift man above his natural state. Even if a society were built purely upon natural justice, acted according to the dictates of the natural law and acquired moral virtue, a truly perfect natural society, discerning such a fact or acknowledging could never bring a man into the realm of divine faith, which is an absolutely necessary virtue with which to understand the meaning of history. Much less discerning the wicked machinations of neo-pagans. Hoffman's interesting interpretation appeals to the occult investigator, but it doesn't touch the Catholic conception of history.
On the contrary, a Catholic interpretation of history is based on the fundamental truth that there are only two Kingdoms on earth, one is the Kingdom of God, to which good Catholics belong, the other is the Kingdom of Satan, to which all others belong.
That's nice. And your point is?
That a "truth teller" who serves the Kingdom of Satan is no friend of a member of the Kingdom of God, objectively speaking and that any interpretation of history that neglects this fact is misleading at best.
Inflicting "psychological trauma" on fellow members of the Kingdom of Satan doesn't square with a Catholic conception of history.
So Satan doesn't deceive people in order to keep them part of his kingdom? I think it is your view that doesn't square with a Catholic conception of history, as you implicitly deny, like StevusMagnus, the mystery of iniquity.
Is purposely deceiving someone in mathematics keeping someone from the Kingdom of God? Why would Satan decieve the already deceived? He might do so simply because he is that malicious, but it matters little regarding eternal salvation since that is his ultimate end, to deceive men by propagating lies about God. A truth regarding a contingent event within a bigger lie is ultimately meaningless according to eternity. Discerning the truth of 9/11 will never get a man closer to God or free him in the least from the Kingdom of Satan. He could possess all the secret docuмents of the government, know all the lies with perfect knowledge, see with clarity the true motives behind the event, but in the end, it will do him no good. No more good than learning who the President is, the name of his neighbors dog or the real reason why his brother went to college.
Men must turn to God and pray for the light that leads to Him. He must use the powers of his speculative intellect to analyze the effects of nature that lead to an ultimate cause. He must turn to prayer and study, not to the daily tabloid wherein is found the latest sad story that is unfolding within the Kingdom of Satan, whether it be plain as day or a conspiracy to commit a crime.
And your powers of inference are sorely lacking. In fact, your understanding of the mystery of iniquity is borderline Pelagian and extremely myopic.
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Also, Caminus, I explained the reason for the psychological trauma inflicted by Satan. By denying the truth about our leaders, about our countries, about the anti-Catholic trend of the world, people become, in a way, COMPLICIT in this anti-Catholic trend. Instead of soldiers of Christ, they act like soft-bellied wimps who worry about their picket fences and their lives of comfort.
If the devil's job, as I said, and as I'm sure you don't disagree, is to win souls for hell by making humanity displeasing to God, don't you think this is one way he'd go about it? Make people lovers of lies, in deep denial, soft and only concerned with themselves and their material well-being? That is the whole history of the second half of the 20th century, this lost generation ( generally speaking ) or series of generations of the Apostasy.
St. Thomas taught long ago that it is a form of sacrilege for Catholics to be under the dominion of unbelievers. This is nothing new my friend. That is why I do not vote for anyone, not even the lesser of two evils.
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That is why I don't classify the creation of the Fed as part of a conspiracy. A greedy, stupid, short-sighted decision is not a conspiracy.
How much do you know about the history of the Fed, the history of money in general, the way in which the Fed came into existence, etc? To say its creation is NOT part of the larger conspiracy strikes me as absurd, IF one knows its background, etc. Money manipulation is THE tool of the would-be-masters of the universe -- and it has been since WELL before the Fed came into being.
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How do you know Bin-Laden is not..... ALIVE??
:scared2:
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How do you know Bin-Laden is not..... ALIVE??
:scared2:
How do you know what the government says is true?
:scared2:
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How do you know Bin-Laden is not..... ALIVE??
You are telling the equivalent of a third grade joke told to graduate students, bro...
I could not care less if he is alive or dead...
I could not care less if YOU are OBL...
I could not care less if you are CIA, etc...
This is National Kewl-aid Overdose Week, so drink up :)
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This is National Kewl-aid Overdose Week, so drink up :)
:alcohol: :cheers:
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How do you know Bin-Laden is not..... ALIVE??
:scared2:
How do you know what the government says is true?
:scared2:
How do you know what anyone says is true?
:scared2:
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Also, Caminus, I explained the reason for the psychological trauma inflicted by Satan. By denying the truth about our leaders, about our countries, about the anti-Catholic trend of the world, people become, in a way, COMPLICIT in this anti-Catholic trend. Instead of soldiers of Christ, they act like soft-bellied wimps who worry about their picket fences and their lives of comfort.
If the devil's job, as I said, and as I'm sure you don't disagree, is to win souls for hell by making humanity displeasing to God, don't you think this is one way he'd go about it? Make people lovers of lies, in deep denial, soft and only concerned with themselves and their material well-being? That is the whole history of the second half of the 20th century, this lost generation ( generally speaking ) or series of generations of the Apostasy.
St. Thomas taught long ago that it is a form of sacrilege for Catholics to be under the dominion of unbelievers. This is nothing new my friend. That is why I do not vote for anyone, not even the lesser of two evils.
Where can i learn more about this?
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I just wanted to say something about Ben Laden. It seems so bizarre that they said they killed him weeks ago, then it was that same night. Then they had DNA already and then he was thrown into the sea.
:confused1:
Buried at sea? Was he a sailor?
It reeks. It just reeks.
I can't believe it, even if I wanted to.
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How do you know Bin-Laden is not..... ALIVE??
:scared2:
How do you know what the government says is true?
:scared2:
How do you know what anyone says is true?
:scared2:
How do you know if Wikipedia is actually trustworthy?
:scared2:
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I just wanted to say something about Ben Laden. It seems so bizarre that they said they killed him weeks ago, then it was that same night. Then they had DNA already and then he was thrown into the sea.
:confused1:
Buried at sea? Was he a sailor?
It reeks. It just reeks.
I can't believe it, even if I wanted to.
Well, they buried him at sea (burial at see actually means dumped in the ocean, for the record) because they didn't want the muslims coming and paying tribute to him if they had buried him somewhere else. Even still, like you, I find the whole thing bizzare.
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Is he or isn't he, that is the question:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/osama-bin-laden-americas-wanted/story?id=13527705
video for interested parties.
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You guys ever think the NWO actually puts the real story out there once in a while to throw off those who automatically and immediately think everything they put out there is hogwash? It would be the perfect plan! Actually tell the truth and the conspiracy theorists automatically think it is a lie and disbelieve it! Food for thought... :tinfoil:
Well yes this is entirely possible providing that the story help's the cause of the establishment. Stories are not just simply put out there for no reason.
One of the things you are greatly lacking in Stevus is discernment. That is looking not just at the story but the motivation behind the story and looking at who is telling the story.
As Catholics we have access to all Truth. That is not to say that we know everything but that we have to gifts needed if we make use of them to see the truth.
We have the ability to get an overall picture of the struggle between good and evil.
I suggest that you do a little more study on Catholic history to get a greater overall picture because every soldier that goes into battle needs to know how to fight and WHO to fight.
If you don't know your enemy you are fighting blind.
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So, would that mean that the Navy SEALS, the helo pilots, the fighter pilots who circled above, et al. during this mission are all knowing and willing participants in a NWO scheme? Although some of the details don't make sense - and I don't care about that - I think that the mission was carried out and that he was killed. Too many people involved.
And YES - I believe in the NWO and cօռspιʀαcιҽs. I just think this was a mission that was carried out.
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Well, somebody's dead and apparently Obama killed him.
:smirk:
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So, would that mean that the Navy SEALS, the helo pilots, the fighter pilots who circled above, et al. during this mission are all knowing and willing participants in a NWO scheme? Although some of the details don't make sense - and I don't care about that - I think that the mission was carried out and that he was killed. Too many people involved.
And YES - I believe in the NWO and cօռspιʀαcιҽs. I just think this was a mission that was carried out.
:applause:
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So, would that mean that the Navy SEALS, the helo pilots, the fighter pilots who circled above, et al. during this mission are all knowing and willing participants in a NWO scheme? Although some of the details don't make sense - and I don't care about that - I think that the mission was carried out and that he was killed. Too many people involved.
Do you know the names of those supposedly involved? Have they given interviews? Do you know, aside from BO's and the MSM's word, that a raid actually took place, or that SEALs were involved?
I do not own a TV and have no idea what they have or have not shown in the way of interviews, so I am asking you these questions in all sincerity.
Do you believe JFK was killed by a lone gunman, who was able to blow JFK's brains out the back of his head with a shot from above and behind? If not, is it not clear that there were MANY people involved in that lie? IMO, lies about the death of OBL would be small potatoes compared many other lies that have been sold to the public.
While I understand your argument, it does not hold water. TPTB have lied about MANY things over the years, often involving thousands in their lies. Gulf of Tonkin? Pearl Harbor? 9/11? The list could go on...
Incidentally, that you do NOT care about the demonstrable fact that the details do NOT add up is, at least partially, irrational.
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Obama Refuses to Release Photos of Osama bin Laden
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110505/ts_alt_afp/usattacksbinladen
How unfortunate... Obama just locked up "Stevie Wonder's" "proof". :laugh1:
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I just think this was a mission that was carried out.
You are free to think what you will, but, as of now, there is ZERO actual evidence to support the claims of the WH and the MSM.
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I was hearing from some veterans that they believed Bin Laden was already dead, and that they just wont admit it. This was 2 years after we went into Afghanistan.
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How unfortunate... Obama just locked up "Stevie Wonder's" "proof". :laugh1:
No video, either...
So, the photo of the WH staff watching things unfold was...
BULLSH*T...
I am stunned, truly...
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Isn't it an interesting "coincidence" that this happened right after the "releasing of the birth certificate"?
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Isn't it an interesting "coincidence" that this happened right after the "releasing of the birth certificate"?
You would think that he would have pulled BOTH these stunts sometime in his first year in office considering his ratings.
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His ratings actually weren't that bad in his first year of office. You heard the news says this is the highest his ratings have been since June 2009. Anyway, I definitely think Bin Laden was already dead, and that they announced it now so that Obama's ratings would go up.
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Did you guys look at the photos on Reuters?
None of the 3 dead men even look remotely like OBL. They're all much younger too. I didn't see any bullet hole above the left eye either. The audacity of our government continues to surprise. The Sheeple continue continue to sleep.
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They said they weren't going to release the death photo of obl and just released the photos of the poor suckers
who were on the premises at the time.
Supposedly.
I am beginning to think that it is a sin to believe what the government says. ever.
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Although some of the details don't make sense - and I don't care about that - I think that the mission was carried out and that he was killed. Too many people involved.
Please consider these 'tips' from well-known liars:
“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it” —Adolf Hitler
Lenin: “A lie told often enough becomes the truth.”
IOW, where lies are concerned, the bigger the better.
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Did you guys look at the photos on Reuters?
None of the 3 dead men even look remotely like OBL. They're all much younger too. I didn't see any bullet hole above the left eye either. The audacity of our government continues to surprise. The Sheeple continue continue to sleep.
Those pictures actually weren't of Bin Laden, apparently. The third one actually looked a bit like Bin Laden but about 20 years younger. Anyway, I don't really want to see the pictures of him. They could be real but could have been taken 5 years ago or so. Wouldn't make a difference to show them...
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Al Qaeda confirms bin Laden death
http://tinyurl.com/3j5tkqk
Of course the sheeple here will say, there is no Al Qaeda!
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Being from a military family and having several immediate family members currently serving, as well as having numerous friends in the military, I am confident that this mission actually happened. The reason that the details, which have been either wrong, misleading, or contradictory, don't matter that much to me is because NONE of the details for a mission like that should be public. It jeopardizes the safety of our servicemen (and even their families) as well as potentially compromises further special ops missions which may use some of the same tactics. The public does not have a "need to know" the details. Some things are secret - period. It is obvious by your comments that you don't have any familiarity with how special ops missions are put together or carried out.
The OBL photos running around the internet are fake - someone obviously looking to make money or to incite others.
I don't want to see photos of OBL. That is gruesome and morbid.
Yes, I do know someone acquainted with that mission although I haven't spoken personally with him, only his wife.
I am sorry that you just cannot give our military some kudos. Leave it alone.
Whether or not the special ops forces were used by the elitists to accomplish their NWO desires - that's a totally different subject.
Also, for those who think that OBL was killed prior to this raid, please provide your absolute proof as well as your clearance level.
Thanks.
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The term sheeple applies to those who buy everything the government tells them, including that Al Qaeda is real, genuine, etc. It exists, but it is (like Bin Laden himself) a creation of the CIA et alii.
An admission/confirmation from a dubious source does NOT qualify as evidence. At this time, we still have ZERO evidence that BO's recent claim is true.
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I hope that all our service people can come home now.
Oh whats that? There's MORE war on terror?
I declare, the streets of Bagdad are safer than the streets of London or Detroit.
A logical solution...stop muslim immigration. Stop undying, unquestioned, uncritical support for Israel.
Nope, gotta keep the world safe for 'democracy'. They hate us for our freedom!
:nunchaku: :dwarf: :boxer:
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Being from a military family and having several immediate family members currently serving, as well as having numerous friends in the military, I am confident that this mission actually happened.
I am a military brat, too...so what?
The reason that the details, which have been either wrong, misleading, or contradictory, don't matter that much to me is because NONE of the details for a mission like that should be public.
FWIW, when we use words like 'reason', we are talking about cause and effect. The effect you posit has nothing to do with the supposed cause. Look, Olive, THEY, not I, CHOSE to make these things public -- and they cannot keep their story straight.
The reason they have mixed up the details is they are lying.
It jeopardizes the safety of our servicemen (and even their families) as well as potentially compromises further special ops missions which may use some of the same tactics.
We have bragged to the world that we just killed OBL. How is proving it going to make anything more 'dangerous'? The 'terrorists' already (supposedly) 'hate us for our freedoms', so nothing will get any worse as a result of showing the evidence.
So, showing a photo of a dead man will reveal something about our tactics? Right...
Do you think people will say, "WOW! I didn't realize a double-tap was such an effective way to kill a man..."?
The public does not have a "need to know" the details. Some things are secret - period.
No one wants "details" -- they want actual evidence.
It is obvious by your comments that you don't have any familiarity with how special ops missions are put together or carried out.
Ah, but you are a member of the cognoscenti... :wink:
It is obvious from your comments that you are being irrational and now feel the need to descend to the personal level because your arguments do not hold any water.
I don't want to see photos of OBL. That is gruesome and morbid.
No one will force you to look at them. Others, however, desire actual evidence. There is nothing morbid about wanting to see the recent claim supported by evidence; in fact, it is perfectly rational behavior.
I am sorry that you just cannot give our military some kudos. Leave it alone.
'Giving the military kudos' has ZERO to do with this discussion, but this is a nice attempt to act like questioning BO's claim makes a man 'anti-military.'
Also, for those who think that OBL was killed prior to this raid, please provide your absolute proof as well as your clearance level.
Trying to shift the burden of proof...nice try. Considering the number of heads of state and high ranking officials who have publicly said, during the last nine years, that OBL is dead, it is perfectly rational to believe he has been dead for some time. This call for 'absolute proof' is especially humorous considering your comments about NOT needing ANY proof to believe BO's claim.
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Al Qaida confirms bin Laden's death.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13313201
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speaking of releasing photos, I believe that the showing of the three dead with the gruesome gory details over and over (they did on fox news anyway) was to get people to have a visceral reaction AGAINST showing the picture of obl.
They are clever. :devil2:
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FWIW, even if I bought the BO narrative, I would certainly NOT 'give kudos' to very-well-armed, highly-trained killers who shot an unarmed man who had nothing to do with 9/11.
From a Catholic (or just naturally decent) angle, what is laudable about the official (elastic) narrative?
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Being from a military family and having several immediate family members currently serving, as well as having numerous friends in the military, I am confident that this mission actually happened. The reason that the details, which have been either wrong, misleading, or contradictory, don't matter that much to me is because NONE of the details for a mission like that should be public. It jeopardizes the safety of our servicemen (and even their families) as well as potentially compromises further special ops missions which may use some of the same tactics. The public does not have a "need to know" the details. Some things are secret - period. It is obvious by your comments that you don't have any familiarity with how special ops missions are put together or carried out.
The OBL photos running around the internet are fake - someone obviously looking to make money or to incite others.
I don't want to see photos of OBL. That is gruesome and morbid.
Yes, I do know someone acquainted with that mission although I haven't spoken personally with him, only his wife.
I am sorry that you just cannot give our military some kudos. Leave it alone.
Whether or not the special ops forces were used by the elitists to accomplish their NWO desires - that's a totally different subject.
Also, for those who think that OBL was killed prior to this raid, please provide your absolute proof as well as your clearance level.
Thanks.
We can distill the essence of your post thus:
"You are unpatriotic ignoramuses. Only those who know the inner workings of special ops can understand how a contradictory story with more holes than Swiss cheese is actually true. You little, ignorant people have no right or need to see actual evidence -- period."
I am sorry to say so, my dear, but your post is just an emotion-driven load of sh*t, meant to shout down the 'unpatriotic ignoramuses' who freely express their rational desire to see actual evidence. Your post failed to address a single point in anything resembling a rational manner. Has it occurred to you that your connection to military people might be clouding your judgment, rather than assisting it? I am not saying I know this is so, but it is certainly a possibility.
At the end of the day, we do not need to be special ops experts to know that the absolute failure to produce a shred of evidence is a bad sign, to put it mildly.
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Al Qaida confirms bin Laden's death.
So is Al Qaida in on the conspiracy as well?
Please enlighten us...
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This is just a start. I don't know much else about it.
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/search?q=qaida&btn=Search
If you see an article in the search results you want to read, you must go and google the title followed by Madsen and it will open up for you. but that may be stealing. I don't know. Well it is stealing but I don't know how big of a sin it is. as I figure we are trying to save our lives.
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Please enlighten us...
Light serves no purpose for those who love the darkness...
Al Qaeda, like OBL himself, is a creation of the CIA.
FWIW, stevie, does it strike you as odd that the story has changed multiple times and BO has refused to produce any actual evidence to support his claim?
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:detective:
Al-Qaeda confirmed the death of its leader Osama bin Laden, in a statement posted on jihadist Internet forums on Friday, the US monitoring group SITE Intelligence reported.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/qaeda-confirms-death-of-osama-bin-laden-site/articleshow/8179268.cms
SITE Intelligence Group is owned by Rita Katz.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SITE_Institute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Katz
:reporter:
ok then. It must be true. {rolleyes smirky snarky smiley}
{charitable smiley}
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These are the three parts of an excellent docuмentary about Al Qaeda from the Corbett Report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek7ZHenQnu4&list=PLA491DB13FBFAC966
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnV_pNe_BB0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtbYnslB0o&feature=related
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...in a statement posted on jihadist Internet forums...
"Next up on CBS (Comatose, Brainwashed Suckers), an in-depth report on the evils of investing in precious metals..."
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Al Qaeda, like OBL himself, is a creation of the CIA.
Nice. :rolleyes:
FWIW, stevie, does it strike you as odd that the story has changed multiple times and BO has refused to produce any actual evidence to support his claim?
No. New facts are always coming to light. Those who talk to the press are going on the best intel they have and often are parsing their words so they don't blurt out a gaffe that ends up having political consequences.
BO classifying the photos was a smart move. Releasing them would have given the enemy an opportunity to enrage the Middle-East populous further and use the photos as a recruiting tool.
The decision also shows class as America is not one to publiclize gory photos of a dead enemy to the world. Being dignified and civilized we gave the body a Muslim burial and left it at that.
Besides, no matter what photos were released you and other conspiracists would have undoubtedly claimed they were fakes or were doctored, etc. etc. ad infinitum. As proof you don't even accept Al Queda's confirmation of his death. No "proof" would ever be sufficient as accepting any "proof" would require you to doubt your a priori dogma that the NWO and other grand conspirators are running the world. After all, if they are actually telling the truth about OBL, what ELSE have they been telling the truth about?
Your secure makeshift world of paranoia and the joy and freedom of imaginitive make-believe conspiracy theories would then be brought to an end and you'd have to face the fact that almost all significant world events were not calculated in a back-room, but that there is actually an unpredictable element to these things, some of which happen for unforeseen reasons. A lot of major actions in world history had unintended and unforeseen consequences.
If you admitted this. you'd be forced to put your trust in God instead of trusting in yourself and your web of theories from which you derive a temporary false sense of security and false "understanding" of the madness around you.
Indeed it is much easier to write the current depressing reality off as a masterminded fraud and detach from it rather than actually face this ugly reality and try to work to change it for the better. I only pray that God snaps you out of your current psychological cocoon of delusion and makes use of you to do good, before you end up the old "crazy" man in the nursing home rattling on about alien abductions and black helicopters. :geezer:
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Stevus, I find your rants on "conspiracy theories" to be immature, uncharitable, illogical, and filled with ignorance. First of all, being aware of a government whose primary goal is to promote their satanic nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr does not make one put trust in themselves. It draws them closer to God. Don't you know that God uses suffering as a means of drawing people closer to Him? It's the same thing with the government.
Your constant denial of these "conspiracy theories" only shows that you haven't done much consistent research. You instead base your opinions on a site that can be edited by anyone (Wikipedia). How do you know that a freemason didn't write what you're reading on there?
Bin Laden has likely been dead for years. And even if his recent death was real, what would it change about our government, our economy, or anything else? The war in Afghanistan is a waste of both time and money, not to mention we're sending billions of dollars each year to Pakistan, a country that we don't even get along with all that well. Al Qaeda confirming Bin Laden's death makes little difference considering Al Qaeda may actually be a fabrication, meaning he's not real and was made up by the CIA. There's a few details yet to be worked out on that, but you can't expect to know everything about it when you have a government that constantly lies to you.
Stevus, I suggest not commenting on any of these "conspiracy theories" anymore until you can carry on a serious conversation with us rather than laughing at everything we post on the subject. I would, however, like to know one thing. Do you at all support Obama or any of the decisions he's made since taking office?
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"Next up on CBS (Comatose, Brainwashed Suckers)
That's what CBS should stand for! :laugh1:
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Nice.
It is not a question of nice or...not nice...but whether or not it is true.
Those who talk to the press are going on the best intel they have and often are parsing their words so they don't blurt out a gaffe that ends up having political consequences.
The WH pretended they WATCHED IT LIVE...but still screwed up their story...repeatedly.
Being dignified and civilized we gave the body a Muslim burial and left it at that.
Moslems require that a body be buried IN THE GROUND. You are just parroting the WH's and MSM's b.s., stevie.
FWIW, we are NOT "classy", which fact is proved by the fact that we celebrated in the streets like those we have called barbarians for doing the same thing.
Do you have ANY IDEA how long it takes to identify a body via DNA? Well, you can be sure it requires more time than we supposedly had the body.
In a word: Parroting all the WH and MSM bullsh*t in the world, and doing so until the end of time, will not actually amount to a shred of actual evidence to support this highly-dubious claim.
As proof you don't even accept Al Queda's confirmation of his death.
This is only proof of the fact that I do not think Al Qaeda is anything other than a CIA creation -- nothing more.
Do you really believe there are "jihadist forums"? Is there an Al Qaeda website, too??? LOL!
"terrorist.org...the best place to learn the truth..."
If you admitted this. you'd be forced to put your trust in God...
I trust God in matters of Faith, precisely because He reveals things I cannot otherwise know. In matters like this, I prefer to examine ACTUAL EVIDENCE.
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http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/05/bin-had.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn1EXwjFOa0
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From washingtonsblog (linked above)...
FRIDAY, MAY 6, 2011
Bin Had
Preface: You can either dismiss all of the allegations in the first part of this post as nutty conspiracy theories, or decide that they are real and that I am using parody. Your choice. Either way, it is clear that we've been had ...
Forget that Bin Laden likely received CIA training and support in fighting against the Russians in Afghanistan. See this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this.
Forget the allegations by France's oldest and second-largest newspaper that a CIA agent met with Bin Laden two months before 9/11, and the claim by a former FBI translator that Bin Laden worked with the CIA right up until 9/11.
Forget that 9/11 was entirely foreseeable, and that government more or less heard the 9/11 hijackers' plans from their own mouths.
Forget that Dick Cheney was in charge of all counter-terrorism exercises, activities and responses on 9/11 (see this Department of State announcement, this Department of State announcement, this CNN article and this essay), and that:
In the 70's - Cheney and Rumsfeld were instrumental in generating fake intelligence exaggerating the Soviet threat in order to undermine coexistence between the U.S. and Soviet Union, which conveniently justified huge amounts of cold war spending (and see this)
According to former high-level intelligence officer Melvin Goodman, Cheney orchestrated phony intelligence for the Congress in order to get an endorsement for covert arms shipments to anti-government forces in Angola
Cheney and Rumsfeld (and many other high-level officials in the Bush Administration) were prominent members of a thinktank which called for a new American empire well before 9/11, and lamented that, without a "catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor", transformation of America into an empire would be very slow.
Forget that governments from around the world admit that they carry out fαℓѕє fℓαg terrorism to justify their political goals.
Finally, forget that the U.S. could easily have captured Bin Laden in 2001 or 2007, but chose not to do so.
Bin Had
Ignoring the above, it is still obvious that we've been had.
Specifically, only 5 hours after the 9/11 attacks, Donald Rumsfeld said "my interest is to hit Saddam". He also said "Go massive . . . Sweep it all up. Things related and not."
And at 2:40 p.m. on September 11th, in a memorandum of discussions between top administration officials, several lines below the statement "judge whether good enough [to] hit S.H. [that is, Saddam Hussein] at same time", is the statement "Hard to get a good case." In other words, top officials knew that there wasn't a good case that Hussein was behind 9/11, but they wanted to use the 9/11 attacks as an excuse to justify war with Iraq anyway.
Moreover, "Ten days after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, President Bush was told in a highly classified briefing that the U.S. intelligence community had no evidence linking the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein to the [9/11] attacks and that there was scant credible evidence that Iraq had any significant collaborative ties with Al Qaeda".
And a Defense Intelligence Terrorism Summary issued in February 2002 by the United States Defense Intelligence Agency cast significant doubt on the possibility of a Saddam Hussein-al-Qaeda conspiracy.
And yet Bush, Cheney and other top administration officials claimed repeatedly for years that Saddam was behind 9/11. See this analysis. Indeed, Bush administration officials apparently swore in a lawsuit that Saddam was behind 9/11.
Moreover, President Bush's March 18, 2003 letter to Congress authorizing the use of force against Iraq, includes the following paragraph:
(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.
Therefore, the Bush administration expressly justified the Iraq war to Congress by representing that Iraq planned, authorized, committed, or aided the 9/11 attacks. See this.
Moreover, the torture program which Cheney created was specifically aimed at producing false confessions in an attempt to link Iraq and 9/11: er, the type of torture used since 9/11 was a special type of torture specifically aimed at creating false confessions:
Senator: Government Used Communist Torture Techniques Aimed at Extracting FALSE Confessions
Humanitarian Aid Worker: Torture Only Stopped When I Pretended I Was In Al Qaeda
Under torture, Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi claimed there was a link between Saddam Hussein, al-Qaida and WMD
One of the Main Sources for the 9/11 Commission Report was Tortured Until He Agreed to Sign a Confession that He Was NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO READ
9/11 Mastermind: "During ... My Interrogation I Gave A Lot Of False Information In Order To Satisfy What I Believed The Interrogators Wished To Hear"
Self-Confessed 9/11 "Mastermind" Also Falsely Confessed to Crimes He Didn't Commit
Most of the 9/11 Commission Report was Based on 3rd Hand Reports of What People Said While Being Tortured
And see this.
As American historian, investigative journalist and policy analyst Gareth Porter writes this week:
Cheney and Rumsfeld were determined not to allow a focus on bin Laden to interfere with their plan for a U.S. invasion of Iraq to overthrow the Saddam Hussein regime.
It's not just Iraq.
Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair says that Dick Cheney's vision of policy towards the Middle East after 9/11 was to re-draw the map.
Porter writes in the Asia Times:
Feith's book, War and Decision, released last month, provides excerpts of the paper Rumsfeld sent to President George W Bush on September 30, 2001, calling for the administration to focus not on taking down Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network but on the aim of establishing "new regimes" in a series of states [including Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Somalia and Lebanon ]
There are some bad guys out there, but their importance has been greatly exaggerated to justify America's imperial ambitions. No wonder former U.S. National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is "a mythical historical narrative".
Bin Laden might have been a bad guy ... but the way his life and death have been used has been dishonest.
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New facts are always coming to light.
Well, when new facts that are FACTUAL 'come to light', and the WH and MSM get the 'definitive' version of their story straight, you be sure to let us know, okay?
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The decision also shows class as America is not one to publiclize gory photos of a dead enemy to the world. Being dignified and civilized we gave the body a Muslim burial and left it at that.
Yes just like all the barbarian apes hanging from light posts rejoicing and celebrating his death like a bunch of 1789 bloodthirsty revolutionaries.
You are delusional! :fryingpan:
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"In politics nothing happens by chance. If something happens, then you can bet that it was planned that way."
-FDR
These guys are at the least sociopaths sick on lust for power. But most are probably actually the devil incarnate on earth.
The government did release gorey, bloody pictures and they showed them over and over on Fox news trying to get a reaction from the people to request that they NOT show pictures of OBL.
I believe my eyes, all others go ahead and believe Hannity at your peril.
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Interesting quote I found from bin Laden
"I'm fighting so I can die a martyr and go to heaven to meet God. Our fight now is against the Americans. "
Osama bin Laden
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Well, when you find actual evidence that supports the recent claim of BO, please let us know...
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Just because he says God doesn't mean he worshipped the Holy Trinity like we do. I've heard muslims say God when refering to their god.
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Just because he says God doesn't mean he worshipped the Holy Trinity like we do. I've heard muslims say God when refering to their god.
I know, that wasn't my point!
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Just because he says God doesn't mean he worshipped the Holy Trinity like we do. I've heard muslims say God when refering to their god.
I know, that wasn't my point!
What was your point?
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Just because he says God doesn't mean he worshipped the Holy Trinity like we do. I've heard muslims say God when refering to their god.
I know, that wasn't my point!
What was your point?
I know the sheeple, those who follow their desired blogs, will never get the point. Not to worry yourself.
God bless you this Happy Mothers Day! Have a good one!
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I know the sheeple, those who follow their desired blogs, will never get the point...
This is not about blogs, Myrna -- it is about actual evidence (which I am pretty sure we will never get). Thus far, BO has produced NONE. Additionally, the WH/MSM story has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.
The WH/MSM have been caught lying (yet again), but some simply refuse to see/accept the ugly truth.
Happy Mothers Day, ma'am :baby:
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With all due respect GV, and you know I love you, however my gut feeling is Bin was killed on May 1st, and I resent being called Sheeple just because I believe that. If I am wrong then so I am wrong, it is not an article of Faith. It will not be the first time I am wrong.
I do not believe everything that our government says, in fact I believe little of what they say. I know our government is corrupt but I do believe that Bin was killed on May 1st, and if that was a just killing or not, is another matter entirely.
That is my point.
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With all due respect GV, and you know I love you,
The feeling is mutual, ma'am :)
I resent being called Sheeple just because I believe that.
FWIW, I do not see how your calling others sheeple sets things aright. Like it or not, the term was coined with those who BUY gov't b.s. in mind -- not the other way around.
I know our government is corrupt but I do believe that Bin was killed on May 1st, and if that was a just killing or not, is another matter entirely.
That is my point.
I know you do not buy much of what the gov't says. Indeed, this issue can be (and should be) discussed from several angles.
Olive wants us to congratulate the killers -- NO CAN DO. Even if OBL were killed on May 1 (he wasn't), I would not congratulate well-armed, highly-trained killers who murdered an unarmed man (and several others in the process).
FWIW, I emphatically DO NOT 'support our troops', in the ridiculous sense meant by the unthinking masses, for they are just stooges implementing the Banksters' agenda -- nothing more. None of our overseas operations has anything to do with truly-vital US interests.
Godspeed to you and yours (including those I know are in the military), my dear :)
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With all due respect GV, and you know I love you, however my gut feeling is Bin was killed on May 1st, and I resent being called Sheeple just because I believe that. If I am wrong then so I am wrong, it is not an article of Faith. It will not be the first time I am wrong.
I do not believe everything that our government says, in fact I believe little of what they say. I know our government is corrupt but I do believe that Bin was killed on May 1st, and if that was a just killing or not, is another matter entirely.
That is my point.
I guess we cannot know for sure when he was killed, but I would find it hard to believe he was killed on May 1st of this year. Why? For one thing because 9/11 wasn't an act of random muslims, and don't you find it interesting that this happened while Obama is beginning work on his 2012 campaign? I think they killed him 5 years ago and announced it now to get more votes for him.
Anyway, I'm not going ridicule you for believing in something that is highly debatable and has no proof for either side. Happy Mothers Day and a Blessed Sunday to you.
God Bless.
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It is common, easily-verifiable knowledge that OBL was dying of renal failure in 2001. Men do not carry on for ten years in such a sad state -- especially while living in caves and on the run...
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"In politics nothing happens by chance. If something happens, then you can bet that it was planned that way."
-FDR
These guys are at the least sociopaths sick on lust for power. But most are probably actually the devil incarnate on earth.
The government did release gorey, bloody pictures and they showed them over and over on Fox news trying to get a reaction from the people to request that they NOT show pictures of OBL.
I believe my eyes, all others go ahead and believe Hannity at your peril.
The other day they showed the gorey pictures again--on Fox--but they were blurred up and the host (can't remember which one) said something to the effect...
"eww, I don't think we want to see pictures of Bin Laden".
Now, go figure. :smirk:
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Myrna, enough is enough. The CMRI with some of their John Birch-like members are apparently the last to see through what even pagans know is bogus propaganda.
I'm tired of being "charitable" towards this junk. People who buy into these lies make Catholics look bad, it makes others not want to convert, thinking we are like hillbillly Bush-loving Protestants. This has to be stopped, just as I don't want Catholics to be associated with Hitler -- see the thread about stevus' sig in the crisis section -- it is not much better for us to be associated with Bush or Glenn Beck or whatever "right-wing" Jєωιѕн puppet demagogue you care to name.
There is practically no one on Earth who believes Bin Laden was killed on May 1st. There is no excuse for a Catholic who is aware of Masonic plots and of governmental perfidy to be duped by such a totally transparent fib.
My favorite part of all this -- how they say that Bin Laden was in a "ONE MILLION DOLLAR MANSION." It sounds like something from the Price is Right. But a million dollars is nothing these days.
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Myrna M said:
Interesting quote I found from bin Laden
"I'm fighting so I can die a martyr and go to heaven to meet God. Our fight now is against the Americans. "
That's something Osama and I have in common. I am sick, sick, sick of this disgusting, Jєωιѕн, cesspool of lies. We have turned the entire world into an Alice in Wonderland absurd farce, having opened Pandora's box with our precious religious liberty.
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stevusmagnus said:
The decision also shows class as America is not one to publiclize gory photos of a dead enemy to the world. Being dignified and civilized we gave the body a Muslim burial and left it at that.
Is this some kind of test of my patience? Yet God promises not to give us more than we can bear... This crosses the bearable point. Big time. Good thing I have the ignore feature, that is God's mercy being shown.
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Myrna, enough is enough. The CMRI with some of their John Birch-like members are apparently the last to see through what even pagans know is bogus propaganda.
I'm tired of being "charitable" towards this junk. People who buy into these lies make Catholics look bad, it makes others not want to convert, thinking we are like hillbillly Bush-loving Protestants. This has to be stopped, just as I don't want Catholics to be associated with Hitler -- see the thread about stevus' sig in the crisis section -- it is not much better for us to be associated with Bush or Glenn Beck or whatever "right-wing" Jєωιѕн puppet demagogue you care to name.
There is practically no one on Earth who believes Bin Laden was killed on May 1st. There is no excuse for a Catholic who is aware of Masonic plots and of governmental perfidy to be duped by such a totally transparent fib.
My favorite part of all this -- how they say that Bin Laden was in a "ONE MILLION DOLLAR MANSION." It sounds like something from the Price is Right. But a million dollars is nothing these days.
:sleep:
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My favorite part of all this -- how they say that Bin Laden was in a "ONE MILLION DOLLAR MANSION." It sounds like something from the Price is Right. But a million dollars is nothing these days.
It didn't even look like a million dollar mansion, or even a mansion. It looked like a dump to me.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13329078
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http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20110504/109544.shtml
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http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20110504/109544.shtml
it made me lauigh at the end cause the guys in the street were looking at the camera in a wierd way
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MyrnaM said:
:sleep:
I already know you like to sleep, Myrna, considering the eagerness with which you embrace Zionist propaganda.
But do you have anything else to offer to the debate?
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Not only is it a hoax, Darcy, but they WANT you to know it's a hoax. They also want you to know that the entire media is complicit in the hoax and is merely a propaganda arm of the Zionist government. It is deliberately meant to look fake. Believe me, the wizards of Hollywood could have made it look much more real if they wanted ( like with the moon landing, which was done with much more detail and verisimilitude despite the less-advanced technology of the time ).
The video of Osama stroking his beard while watching his younger self on TV, if it wasn't tragic that people actually buy into such a thing, would be hilarious. They supposedly find a treasure trove of videos and all they release is thirty seconds without sound of some vaguely Middle-Eastern guy filmed from behind, who they don't even try to make resemble the previous "Osama Bin Laden" ( who knows if he ever even existed ). Then they try to portray him as some kind of narcissist from a bad sitcom.
The reality is they don't really care or not if you believe in their pretext for invading Iraq. It makes it all the more sad when someone does believe their shoddy excuse, since they aren't really even trying.
The ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic government are more evil than many realize. You'll hear lots of people say 9/11 was a false-flag event, an excuse to invade Iraq. But why would they need that, when they had the fiction about the "weapons of mass destruction"? They do what they want, they don't need to take down three high-rises for that... No, that wasn't a fαℓѕє fℓαg, that was demonic ritual and human sacrifice meant to submerge and cow a brainwashed populace even further.
I will say, even in Catholic Europe, there were wars that were more or less "wars of aggression," wars carried because one king or another wanted to extend his territory. I don't think the Church ever even called these unjust wars. But never, ever has it been seen before that a nation would murder its own people for no reason -- because as I said, 9/11 was unnecessary as a false-flag operation. The Reichstag fire pulled off by the nαzιs was a real false-flag. But 9/11 was something new, something purely Satanic, it was literally murder on a vast, public scale, and they WANT you to know who really did it. That's why the official story has so many gaping holes ( like no video of the plane hitting the Pentagon, no jets scrambling to intercept the "hijacked" planes despite the Air Force being in constant readiness, etc. )
That is why there is a sort of gulf between those who deny these "cօռspιʀαcιҽs" and those who acknowledge them, even if they're both Catholic. Catholics should not be this blind, even if it isn't a matter of the faith exactly.
But American Catholics, to be honest, just by virtue of their slavering love of "freedom" and democracy, have always done the work of the Masons for them, because "freedom" and "liberty" are the watchwords of the Masons themselves, the air here is permeated with Masonry, everything about this country is Masonic. If you take the average American patriot, he will be spouting Masonic propaganda without knowing it...
Just think of the Spanish-American war where the Catholic clergy was inspiring their flocks to go chase those fusty old Catholic Spaniard reactionaries out of Cuba so we could go in there and install our precious religious freedom, our democracy. Catholics who do the work of the devil due to pride and naivete, that is how history will view American Catholics, in general, as a massive contradiction. It is no surprise to me how it is going down, it began as a delusion and it will end as an even more immense delusion.
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That video of Bin Laden did seem pretty fake to me. For one thing, his left arm was supposedly disabled due to a prior injury, and yet it showed him stroking his beard with his left hand. They must really think we're dumb to fall for that. What's sad though is that alot of people these days actually are dumb. The more sheep-like the American people become, the more wolf-like the government becomes. That's what is happening in our country today.
As I previously said, the war in Iraq is a scam. And come to think of it, so is the one in Afghanistan. We had no buisiness going over to Iraq, it was all to get their oil. Sadam has been dead for nearly five years now (if he was even real, although personally to me he didn't seem like an invention of the government, but I guess I cannot be certain of that). It's a waste of both time and money to keep our troops over there. Al Qaeda is probably a phony created by the CIA to spew terrorist threats to control us. Let's face it. With how big the NWO has become, our government is so powerful now that they could probably wipe out a small conutry if they really wanted to.
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it does seem fishy raoul and ss
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I wonder if Stevie here knows that we had a PRESIDENT who was a "conspiracy theorist." His name was John F. Kennedy.
I don't think a president who uses the words "monolithic conspiracy" can be dismissed as a nut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f4KIzOKbsg
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I wonder if Stevie here knows that we had a PRESIDENT who was a "conspiracy theorist." His name was John F. Kennedy.
I don't think a president who uses the words "monolithic conspiracy" can be dismissed as a nut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f4KIzOKbsg
i like that he pronounced it eee-conomic. most people pronounce it eck-onomic.
that is clearly wrong. if it isnt clearly wrong i think it should be.
anyway it was intersting video reminding me of his predecessors warning against mic*.
*"mic" is short for military insustrial complex
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Has anyone seen a shred of actual evidence that BO's story is true?
Not that I desire her absence, but, has anyone noticed that Olive has not been around since she could not shove her kewl-aid down my throat?
[FWIW, I liked her posts and hope she comes back.]
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I wonder if Stevie here knows that we had a PRESIDENT who was a "conspiracy theorist." His name was John F. Kennedy.
I don't think a president who uses the words "monolithic conspiracy" can be dismissed as a nut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f4KIzOKbsg
That is one helluva speech, eh?
It is stunning that MANY who supposedly like/love JFK loathe and malign "conspiracy theorists" -- what an inconsistent joke.
He even tells us the tactics they use, which tactics line up exactly with the understanding that Holy Church has been heavily infiltrated. Still, most will not see.
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Yes, it was a heck of a speech.
Vandeler, GO AWAY. I was refreshed when you said you were leaving.
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Has anyone seen a shred of actual evidence that BO's story is true?
The resignation of ISI chief, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Pasha after an 11 hour session in Pakistan's parliament (that was partially televised in Pakistan) should be good enough no ? The topic: How Bi Laden was allowed to be living under their nose and how was it possible that Pakistan can be incapable of even detecting such a blatant violation of their sovereignty.
I could have named many other reasons, but I'm of course mindful to not use any statements from the Obama administration nor from the mainstream media since you would deny me those sources.
So why the self-flagellation from the Pakistani government is this did not indeed occur ?
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Vandeler, GO AWAY. I was refreshed when you said you were leaving.
Do you know how many times he's said that he's leaving over the years? :laugh1:
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Haha, it's not as many times my name was mysteriously misspelled Vandeler for some obscure reason.
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Has anyone seen a shred of actual evidence that BO's story is true?
The resignation of ISI chief, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Pasha after an 11 hour session in Pakistan's parliament (that was partially televised in Pakistan) should be good enough no ?
Uh, no. Are you serious?
This proves nothing, Van. Do you possess a reliable transcript from the session?
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No complete transcript are available to my knowledge, but what follows proves without a doubt that Pakistan is peeved at seeing their sovereignty violated by the U.S. in the course of the attack in Abbottabad.
The order of the day (http://www.na.gov.pk/orderoftheday/joint_session9/ofday14052011_js.pdf) of the parliament to discuss the matter...
The official resolutions (http://www.na.gov.pk/orderoftheday/joint_session9/ofday14052011_js.pdf) that came out of this meeting.
Highlights:
The Senate of Pakistan and the National Assembly, in a Joint Session held on 13-14 May 2011, considered the situation arising from the unilateral US forces action in Abbottabad on 2 May 2011.
After an in-depth discussion, including presentations made on the relevant issues by the Director General, Inter-Services Intelligence, Director General (Military Operations) and Deputy Chief of Air Staff (Operations), the Joint Session of Parliament resolved as under:
Condemned the US unilateral action in Abbottabad, which constitutes a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty;
Strongly asserted that unilateral actions, such as those conducted by the US forces in Abbottabad, as well as the continued drone attacks on the territory of Pakistan, are not only unacceptable but also constitute violation of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations, international law and humanitarian norms and such drone attacks must be stopped forthwith, failing which the Government will be constrained to consider taking necessary steps including withdrawal of transit facility allowed to NATO/ISAF forces.
____________
No where in the resolutions is there any expression of doubts as to the objective and result from the Operation.
This is all taken from the Pakistani Governement Official web site.
My point is, if the Pakistani government is bent out of shape over something that clearly happened according to them, your in an extremely poor position to contradict them.
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What does that item PROVE happened, Van?
The US conducted a raid in Pakistan; nothing more.
IMO, there is still a total of ZERO pieces of solid evidence that OBL was still alive, was living in that compound, was shot by SEALs, dumped at sea, etc.
I am NOT saying I can PROVE he died more than nine years ago. However, it has NOT been PROVED that he died in this recent raid.
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Pakistan is peeved at seeing their sovereignty violated by the U.S. in the course of the attack in Abbottabad.
They are pissed that we keep killing their civilians, too, but that does not seem to change our insane policies or lessen the drone activity.
Calling this proof of the story of OBL's death is a stretch (to put it kindly).
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They are pissed that we keep killing their civilians, too, but that does not seem to change our insane policies or lessen the drone activity.
Red herring
Calling this proof of the story of OBL's death is a stretch (to put it kindly).
I'm not calling it proof, in the way you mean it. I mean it rather as a reasonable basis to believe. I'm glad I finally got you to agree that there was indeed a military operation in the compound in Abbottabad in the night of May 2nd by US forces. I guess your position now it that an operation occurred, but something else happened as opposed to what we've been told.
For the record, the proof (not perfect but beyond any reasonable doubt) is the DNA match. You don't accept that, because you haven't seen it, even though you (or I) don't have the expertise to qualify such pieces of data.
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What does that item PROVE happened, Van?
The US conducted a raid in Pakistan; nothing more.
I'll double down since you seem to hold that Pakistan officials are honest brokers when they say something in parliament.
Here in this video (upper right), the prime minister himself calling the fact that OBL was right under their nose all this time, an "intelligence failure". In other words, they acknowledge that he was there even though it's embarrassing to them.
And again, if they acknowledge it, it means that they have accepted the proof they have seen (which is likely much more then we have) and thus that it puts you, Gladius and all other naysayers with no access to special information in an extremely poor position to contradict them.
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I'm glad I finally got you to agree that there was indeed a military operation in the compound in Abbottabad in the night of May 2nd by US forces.
Did I ever deny it? No. You did not finally get me to agree with anything, Van.
I guess your position now it that an operation occurred, but something else happened as opposed to what we've been told.
When did I say, "Nothing happened that night. There were no US troops in the area, etc."? You are clearly making more out of my denial of the official story than is reasonable or just.
For the record, the proof (not perfect but beyond any reasonable doubt) is the DNA match.
For the record, DNA cannot even be tested and matched within the amount of time we supposedly had the body. Further, DNA would prove some dead guy was OBL, and, if he had already died (in 2001, say), could easily be obtained at any time during the last nine years.
There is no proof, which is why we will never be shown the various pieces of supposed evidence.
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There is no proof, which is why we will never be shown the various pieces of supposed evidence.
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When did I say, "Nothing happened that night. There were no US troops in the area, etc."? You are clearly making more out of my denial of the official story than is reasonable or just.
You're right, I misread previous posts. Sorry about that.
For the record, DNA cannot even be tested and matched within the amount of time we supposedly had the body.
Not so.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=did-rapid-dna-analysis-verify-osama-2011-05-04
I'm in fact surprised you would come up with such a canard since if it were true, it would be the kind of "gotcha" that is without appeal and it would be claimed by all the worlds government, and all the scientific authorities unanimously. This is a matter where amateur sleuthing and blogger guesswork is worthless. You probably know that, but fail to apply the same laser sharp evidence requirement to your own arguments then you require from others.
Further, DNA would prove some dead guy was OBL, and, if he had already died (in 2001, say), could easily be obtained at any time during the last nine years. There is no proof, which is why we will never be shown the various pieces of supposed evidence.
Intuitively, you know that if OBL was indeed killed on May 1st, in a hasty military operation, in a compound in which he lived and hardly ever left these past many years, that the entire place would be a treasure trove of ADN in the form of blood, hair, clothes, residue, toothbrush... for Pakistani's to challenge the ADN match if they needed to.
So I say again, since Pakistan authorities accept that OBL was killed as claimed while sitting on the mountain of evidence, then, you are placing yourself in an impossible position to argue from.
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You're right, I misread previous posts. Sorry about that.
No worries, amigo :)
So I say again, since Pakistan authorities accept that OBL was killed as claimed while sitting on the mountain of evidence, then, you are placing yourself in an impossible position to argue from.
At the end of the day, I am not too concerned about what Paki 'authorities' do or do not accept as true, nor do I believe they are 'sitting on a mountain of evidence.' Maybe they are; maybe they are not. If so, and they want to world to believe it, all they have to do is SHOW the evidence.
FWIW, my position, which is far from "impossible", is this:
I have not seen ANY evidence that supports BO's claim. Telling me that others have seen it, so I should just believe the official story, too, is worthless.
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I'm in fact surprised you would come up with such a canard since if it were true, it would be the kind of "gotcha" that is without appeal and it would be claimed by all the worlds government, and all the scientific authorities unanimously.
You have too much faith in governments and scientists, Van. Modern history is full of examples that contradict your faith. The modern world runs on lies and the perpetuation thereof by an incomprehensibly-corrupt establishment.
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You have too much faith in governments and scientists, Van. Modern history is full of examples that contradict your faith. The modern world runs on lies and the perpetuation thereof by an incomprehensibly-corrupt establishment.
It's not about my faith in this or that... it's that your counter-argument to the effect that the DNA tests takes to long is wrong. You're concluding on false premises.
Since we both agree that he's dead, perhaps we call it a day ?
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Let us grant that the DNA test can be done in five minutes (or whatever)... I am still unimpressed with the 'proof' that has or has not been made public. Once they have actually shared ANYTHING that can be examined by third/independent parties, then we can resume the discussion. Until then...
He is dead; 'all' is well :)
Pax tecuм, amigo :)
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The modern world runs on lies and the perpetuation thereof by an incomprehensibly-corrupt establishment.[/quote]
agreed
Did you know that on May 1st JPII was beatified, Prince William was married and bin laden was killed (for the ninth time)? Looks like one big party weekend for the Zionist.
And I am pretty sure May 1 st is a celebration day for dictators like Stalin, Lenin and Mao Zedong.
the smart sheep
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Another correction here: I retract saying the Saddam execution video was fake, I'd thought that he was tried by an international UN-style court, rather than one in Baghdad, thus it seemed very strange that he would be handed over to a lynch mob-looking death. I also apologize for saying that was a lynch mob although it does have that look to it from our perspective.
The world is rife with fakery and psychological manipulation but you have to go by what facts you have, I don't really have any facts against that video.
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Another correction here: I retract saying the Saddam execution video was fake, I'd thought that he was tried by an international UN-style court, rather than one in Baghdad, thus it seemed very strange that he would be handed over to a lynch mob-looking death. I also apologize for saying that was a lynch mob although it does have that look to it from our perspective.
The world is rife with fakery and psychological manipulation but you have to go by what facts you have, I don't really have any facts against that video.
here's a shocking video after Saddam Hussein's "execution". the man didn't die.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exqfxPO-7qs
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/exqfxPO-7qs[/youtube]